For All the U87 Haters

[jensenmann]

So you guys judge sound from an youtube clip with compressed audio?
Great song and great performers!

[Philip S Bova]

Mics like 87's and 414's usually need to be softened by analog tape for me, even multiple generations of tape sometimes. Then they can sound richer, fuller, less strident.

[heyman]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

So you guys judge sound from an youtube clip with compressed audio?
Great song and great performers!

I agree.. Would love to hear a 720p copy of this. The top end would open right up. Cant judge a mic properly.

Love the performance...

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by jensenmann

So you guys judge sound from an youtube clip with compressed audio?
Great song and great performers!

Well, the whole purpose of this thread is to judge the sound of the microphone and to teach the U87-haters a lesson, as stated by the OP. All he provided us with is the link to the low res Youtube version, so we are supposed to judge it as it is there. And even when it would have been the high quality version of Youtube there would not have been that a dramatical difference.

There can be little doubt that the song is beautiful and the singers are giving their best, but to my ears it is the recording that screws the song big time. The overblown "vintage" style may be what triggers some (a lot) viewers to think it sounds great, but I am afraid that we are dealing with expectation bias here. I have now listened to the song several times at different moments on different systems. At first I suspected I was so tired that anything would scratch into my ears, so I slept a good deal before revisiting. I really want to like the recording as it is such a wonderful song. Still, no matter what time of day, I cannot stand the sound of that particular recording and I have to turn down the sound level considerably in order not to experience physical pain to my ears. This is very rare as like most of you here I listen to a lot of music every day without problems.

So in case this recording does anything for the reputation of the U87 it would be that it confirms the worst of the complaints about it. I wonder how the lovers of this recording are listening. With their eyes perhaps? Or do they have a hearing defect which makes them appreciate the overly spiky sound, as to them it sounds "clear" and "detailed"? I honestly cannot understand how someone with a good pair of ears can stand this sound.

[Chris Lago]

Everything you hear on there was recorded with the u87ai

[Axelrod]

Originally Posted by Earcatcher

Well, the whole purpose of this thread is to judge the sound of the microphone and to teach the U87-haters a lesson, as stated by the OP. All he provided us with is the link to the low res Youtube version, so we are supposed to judge it as it is there. And even when it would have been the high quality version of Youtube there would not have been that a dramatical difference.

There can be little doubt that the song is beautiful and the singers are giving their best, but to my ears it is the recording that screws the song big time. The overblown "vintage" style may be what triggers some (a lot) viewers to think it sounds great, but I am afraid that we are dealing with expectation bias here. I have now listened to the song several times at different moments on different systems. At first I suspected I was so tired that anything would scratch into my ears, so I slept a good deal before revisiting. I really want to like the recording as it is such a wonderful song. Still, no matter what time of day, I cannot stand the sound of that particular recording and I have to turn down the sound level considerably in order not to experience physical pain to my ears. This is very rare as like most of you here I listen to a lot of music every day without problems.

So in case this recording does anything for the reputation of the U87 it would be that it confirms the worst of the complaints about it. I wonder how the lovers of this recording are listening. With their eyes perhaps? Or do they have a hearing defect which makes them appreciate the overly spiky sound, as to them it sounds "clear" and "detailed"? I honestly cannot understand how someone with a good pair of ears can stand this sound.

1) i never stated that i want to "teach u87 haters a lesson".
2) there is nothing vintage about this recording. modern mic into a modern
pre into a DAW and processed with plugins.

[espasonico]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Everything you hear on there was recorded with the u87ai

I´m sorry but to me it sounds heavly autotuned wich is distracting. Maybe it´s not and it´s just the way you sing ( many young folks sound autotuned and they are not ! ) but to me it makes the song unlisteneable.

I also have to say that this is the way most people have been doing things quite succesfully, but it doesn´t fit my style.

[RiF]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Everything you hear on there was recorded with the u87ai

another example of "a U87 simply works"! And I personally include the U87ai.

[kramsttop]

The song is the savior of this situation, recorded to handheld tape on the other side of a closed door it would sound good.

The mic is detailed but painfully harsh, unflattering. Its not terrible, but if I had just paid $3000 and this was my first recording done with this mic I would do everything in my power to get my $3000 back.

[TonyBelmont]

The 87 is actually a very good choice for recording multiple performers on a single song (if you are only going to use one microphone). Could another choice have sounded better for each individual performer? Almost undoubtedly... maybe even at a lower price, too. But, that shouldn't take away from the performance, or the work the engineer did, in this instance.

[heyman]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The 87 is actually a very good choice for recording multiple performers on a single song (if you are only going to use one microphone). Could another choice have sounded better for each individual performer? Almost undoubtedly... maybe even at a lower price, too. But, that shouldn't take away from the performance, or the work the engineer did, in this instance.

[TobyToby]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Everything you hear on there was recorded with the u87ai

Well done Chris

[Baz]

Originally Posted by zakco

I think you're totally missing the point. I for one really like the honesty and immediacy of a single mic with a song like this. It's a very cool presentation if you ask me. I don't miss close micing of the other sources one bit. Refreshing really.

Great job Axelrod. Sure there might be better mics out there for the job, but this is a classic case of the song/performance outweighing Gearslutz geekery. You put it in a good spot and captured a great performance. Mission accomplished.

Robby has a great, classic sounding voice. His delivery reminds me of a young James Taylor at times.

Yup ^ Couldn't have said it better myself. Sure, as Syra so astutely pointed out, there are some of those classic 87 resonances in there (I find it's usually with M vox with my 87) but this is a very good job and the song/performance transcends any of the nuts and bolts.

Hope your summer went well, Zak.

[Sqye]

.

I hate that U87. All grey.

Sitting there. Staring. Waiting. Looking at me. Watching me. Waiting.

Waiting for me to shock it full of electricity.


And when's the last time it bought ME fresh vegetables? Jeez.

I hate it.



.

[BlueMountain]

[QUOTE=Chris Lago;7018749]Everything you hear on there was recorded with the u87ai

Nice going Chris.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The 87 is actually a very good choice for recording multiple performers on a single song (if you are only going to use one microphone). Could another choice have sounded better for each individual performer? Almost undoubtedly... maybe even at a lower price, too. But, that shouldn't take away from the performance, or the work the engineer did, in this instance.

I would assume that using a single mic here was a CHOICE and not a necessity.

If there is a better mic choice for a particular instrument/voice then I will change the mic for sure. In other words, if I use a 57 on a guitar amp for example it's because I LIKE IT and not because it's a 'workhorse mic that performs adequately on a wide selection of sources even though it seldom is the absolut best choice and then let's consider the low price and how many pro recodings have been done with that mic' (Gearslut talk you may have heard before)

To add fuel to the fire: For the recording here I simply would have put up a SM7b for the lead vocals along with the 87 and I'm sure that nobody would complain about the vocal sound. (Now where did I put that flame suit?)

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by Axelrod

1) i never stated that i want to "teach u87 haters a lesson".
2) there is nothing vintage about this recording. modern mic into a modern
pre into a DAW and processed with plugins.

1) So you actually wanted the U87 haters to prove right, by titling the thread: For All the U87 Haters? We should take the title litterally?

2) Placing quote marks around the word vintage means faux vintage, or so-called vintage. And it is about the sound, not the equipment used. But hey, take it anyway you want. I've made my point by now.

Why don't you try to explain what made you choose this setup for the recording? Why do you think this is how it should sound? Or did you indeed want to show us what a wrong choice the U87 can be under some circumstances?

[Axelrod]

Originally Posted by Earcatcher

1) So you actually wanted the U87 haters to prove right, by titling the thread: For All the U87 Haters? We should take the title litterally?

2) Placing quote marks around the word vintage means faux vintage, or so-called vintage. And it is about the sound, not the equipment used. But hey, take it anyway you want. I've made my point by now.

Why don't you try to explain what made you choose this setup for the recording? Why do you think this is how it should sound? Or did you indeed want to show us what a wrong choice the U87 can be under some circumstances?

i posted this to help enrich the gearslutz community. i titled it to be provocative in order to attract attention and traffic. i don't feel obligated to justify anything about this recording, especially to someone who doesn't like it.

i am however, truly glad that you took the time to listen to the recording. thank you for critically listening to my work and offering your opinion. this is one of the reasons i like gearslutz.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by espasonico

I´m sorry but to me it sounds heavly autotuned wich is distracting. Maybe it´s not and it´s just the way you sing ( many young folks sound autotuned and they are not ! ) but to me it makes the song unlisteneable.

I also have to say that this is the way most people have been doing things quite succesfully, but it doesn´t fit my style.

I am not too worried about your comment. My music is bought by 13 to 17 year old girls, and I don't think you have the age and gender associated to my fans .

And That's how I sing.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I am not too worried about your comment. My music is bought by 13 to 17 year old girls, and I don't think you have the age and gender associated to my fans .

And That's how I sing.

ok this thread is once again heading wrong direction. we are here to discuss "U87ai" not someone's performance/singing style. Here isn't American Idol!

[Mr. Wilson]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I am not too worried about your comment. My music is bought by 13 to 17 year old girls, and I don't think you have the age and gender associated to my fans .

And That's how I sing.

Chris, having heard your song samples before I don't hear any auto tune "effect" and I like the 87ai on your voice a lot and that mic likes you. There is a reason that it has a mostly stellar rep. I happen to own an older 87 (called Opa which is German for grandpa) and just for the comparisons a later mid '90's ai with the discreet FET circuit...talk about geeky! Back in the day I used to never like the "opa" version and stayed away for many years, but I love that sound now and I've even taken to using an 87ai for TV ADR on NCISLA. It is such an equaliser of problems, and leaps ahead of the ubiquitous Sennheiser 416 which I DO truly dislike.

But back to you...IMO it really works for your voice, maybe a bit less for the acoustic guitar, but that is often the instrument or mic placement and even so that part of the recording is way in the ball park.

I'm wondering what comp you used since I do hear that working and did you use just the one 87ai?

Dude that is an honest piece of work you posted and I can only hope it shuts up the zillions of posers, wannabes and damaged elderly vets that plague GS.

Rage on brutha!

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Baz

Hope your summer went well, Zak.

Summer...What's that?
Oh...you mean when the control room gets really hot?

Everything was going fine until I went to SoCal for a week and ruined the studio tan I'd spent the last 11 years working on....'

How's that for OT?

Ahem...ah yes 87s...terrible things. Everybody should pack theirs up and send them to me to keep safely away from other AEs so they don't ruin any more recordings with them...

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

And That's how I sing.

I entirely believe that you sing like that, but it is interesting to hear your approach to pitch. It really does come across as "tuned". Your not the first person I've mentioned this to either. It seems many "modern" pop singers have adopted a built in AT effect and naturally sound like that. Crazy. (not an insult by the way...you're very good at what you do.)

Z

[espasonico]

Originally Posted by zakco

I entirely believe that you sing like that, but it is interesting to hear your approach to pitch. It really does come across as "tuned". Your not the first person I've mentioned this to either. It seems the better "modern" pop singers have adopted a built in AT effect and naturally sound like that. Crazy. (not an insult by the way...you're very good at what you do.)

+1

For me, it´s much more important the way a singer aproaches a song than the mic you are using. It´s quite difficult that someone uses a decent microphone and the resulting audio becomes unlisteneable, at least for me.

I like U87s and have a couple of the vintage ones. I have to disagree with those who say that with this mics never sound great or never sound bad. Most of the time they sound great, maybe not stellar or jaw droping but do sound how I´m used to hear things in thousands of records.

Of course it doesn´t sound as great as a U47, U67, C12, Brauners, etc but it´s quite cheaper, and if a small studio can only afford one nice mic, it´s not a bad choice. On the other side, if someone needs a mic to record just his voice ( personal studios ) the best aproach is to buy the mic that suits that voice best.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wilson

Chris, having heard your song samples before I don't hear any auto tune "effect" and I like the 87ai on your voice a lot and that mic likes you. There is a reason that it has a mostly stellar rep. I happen to own an older 87 (called Opa which is German for grandpa) and just for the comparisons a later mid '90's ai with the discreet FET circuit...talk about geeky! Back in the day I used to never like the "opa" version and stayed away for many years, but I love that sound now and I've even taken to using an 87ai for TV ADR on NCISLA. It is such an equaliser of problems, and leaps ahead of the ubiquitous Sennheiser 416 which I DO truly dislike.

But back to you...IMO it really works for your voice, maybe a bit less for the acoustic guitar, but that is often the instrument or mic placement and even so that part of the recording is way in the ball park.

I'm wondering what comp you used since I do hear that working and did you use just the one 87ai?

Dude that is an honest piece of work you posted and I can only hope it shuts up the zillions of posers, wannabes and damaged elderly vets that plague GS.

Rage on brutha!

I used a Tubetech Cl1b, it works wonders with that mic, and with many mics to be honest.

Thanks, I actually used my own camera as well, my gf directed the video, I called in a good friend of mine who's an actress, then we found a nice location, shot there for the day. Then after that I edited the video, added effects etc. Lots of work but it was worth it, even if it has only 1k views.

Originally Posted by zakco

Summer...What's that?
Oh...you mean when the control room gets really hot?

Everything was going fine until I went to SoCal for a week and ruined the studio tan I'd spent the last 11 years working on....'

How's that for OT?

Ahem...ah yes 87s...terrible things. Everybody should pack theirs up and send them to me to keep safely away from other AEs so they don't ruin any more recordings with them...



I entirely believe that you sing like that, but it is interesting to hear your approach to pitch. It really does come across as "tuned". Your not the first person I've mentioned this to either. It seems many "modern" pop singers have adopted a built in AT effect and naturally sound like that. Crazy. (not an insult by the way...you're very good at what you do.)

Z

Yes I sing like that, and that's probably because I practice on mainstream songs, and work my way around pitch matching with the specific artist. Also, it's the fact that I listen to T-Pain and Akon, and they use Autotune so I try to follow them on their song; it helps when I make my own songs.

[Axelrod]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I used a Tubetech Cl1b, it works wonders with that mic, and with many mics to be honest.

Thanks, I actually used my own camera as well, my gf directed the video, I called in a good friend of mine who's an actress, then we found a nice location, shot there for the day. Then after that I edited the video, added effects etc. Lots of work but it was worth it, even if it has only 1k views.



Yes I sing like that, and that's probably because I practice on mainstream songs, and work my way around pitch matching with the specific artist. Also, it's the fact that I listen to T-Pain and Akon, and they use Autotune so I try to follow them on their song; it helps when I make my own songs.

chris. thanks for turning this thread into one about you. tutt

[McDingus]

Originally Posted by Axelrod

chris. thanks for turning this thread into one about you. tutt

Chris had as much right to post here as you did starting the thread. And funny, his track sounds sizeably better than yours...

But his video makes me want to stab myself in the eyes with a rusty knife. Or get some crackers for all that cheeze.

The performance saved your clip. The recording saved his... A better retort to U87 haters.

Starting a thread, in no way, means you own it...tutt Back at ya.

[dualflip]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

I am not too worried about your comment. My music is bought by 13 to 17 year old girls, and I don't think you have the age and gender associated to my fans .

And That's how I sing.

I like it Chris, im dont like the vid, and im not crazy about the guitar sound, but i like what you did with your vocals