Acoustic guitar and Vocal Question

[gabler]

I am recording a Vocal and an Acoustic guitar tomorrow.
(Both at the same time). I am using a Soundelux E47 for the vocal.
2 Neumann KM184s for the acoustic guitar. And a direct out of the guitar to a Demeter direct box.
Is it common to use a matched set of the KM184s or just use
1 mic since the vocal mic is set up. Also what other mics would you use in place of the 184s? Also mic placement.
What chain with Massive Passive, Fatso. Distessor,
Vary Mu, La2A... Thanks for your help!

[Jay Kahrs]

Geez, can't ya think of anything yourself? All that gear and no place to start...Half the job is figuring out what works on a given session after you pick your starting chain.


Got any figure 8 mics around? My default setup is a figure 8 on the vocal and another on the guitar with a DI off the guitar. Maybe a touch to a handful of compression on the DI if it's a rock thing. Add some stereo 'verb, a little buss compression and just sit back and record. If you need to put another compressor on the lead vocal (I usually do) stick one on. If you only have one figure 8 mic I'd use it on the guitar and get the vocal going into the null, then place a hypercardiod on the vox so the guitar is nulled as much as possible. The bigger problem for me has always been keeping the vocal out of the guitar mic when the singer really opens up and the null of a figure 8 solves that problem. You could also take the approach of putting up a pair of mics in the right spot and getting everything that way. That may or may not work depending on the clients expectations and what the room sounds like.

[gabler]

I thought the idea of this forum was to see other peoples thoughts on recording. What makes you assume I have no ideas!
I was just wanting to see how everyone else aproaches this.
I do appreciate your approach,that all Im looking for!
Maybe where I put (please help) Gabler

[littledog]

gabler-

this is a case where less is often more. the more mics you use the more phasiness.

given that, I would use a MAXIMUM of two mics total - but if you can find the right positioning you can sometimes get an even better result using just one mic for both. Naturally this limits your ability to rebalance the vox/guitar and to add different effects to each. but it will definitely eliminate phase problems!

the figure eight idea works well. but if you only have cardioid try to aim the guitar mic down at the guitar and the vocal mic up at the mouth. That way you will still be able to take advantage of pattern rejection.

[gabler]

Thanks, this makes good sense to me. I will also have the DI
also for separation. I will try the Soundelux E47 in figure 8 mode.
Gabler

[Steve Smith]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Geez, can't ya think of anything yourself? All that gear and no place to start...Half the job is figuring out what works on a given session after you pick your starting chain.

wow , ladies and gents, for our next trick, Jay becomes an ass!...

Steve, Try the fig 8 thing mentioned above, another option would be ( this requires a really good sounding DI outut..) to use a KM184 close in on the guitar just north of the soundhole blended with the DI for the guitar.. sometimes this is great, most times it is crap though... Also, do you have a Litte Labs IBP? It can really rock in this application to sort out funky phase relationships. You may want to check phase in one speaker mono...

The other big thing that alot of folks forget is to get it right in tracking as far as the mix of the two goes.. it can be a really delicate balance to get the sonics and the phase right, and it is often times not very easy to change the level relationship later without causing all sorts of havoc.

[bloodstone]

My best successes involved figure eight ribbons on the voice and the guitar, positioning both mics so that they are physically parallel to the floor. I always had more trouble with guitar bleeding onto the vocal mic. Second best option for me was close micing with a pair of small diaphragm cardioid or hypercardioid condensers (one on the voice and one on the guitar). Believe it or not, a pair of AKG C1000S into a Langevein DVC.

I tried a pair of AKG 414 BULS in figure eight mode, but the damn things are just too hot and pick up too much.

Good luck.

[Jay Kahrs]

My main figure 8 mic is a 414BULS. If it's too hot just flip the pad on. I've rarely had a problem with them being too hot unless the singer is really really loud. Even then, going to -10dB usually solves it.

[bloodstone]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
My main figure 8 mic is a 414BULS. If it's too hot just flip the pad on. I've rarely had a problem with them being too hot unless the singer is really really loud. Even then, going to -10dB usually solves it.

What I meant to say and didn't do very well is that the pattern on the 414 isn't as tight as the ribbon and the lack of side rejection can be a problem if you're going to try to use the 414. However, I didn't switch in the pad during my session, so that's my bad.

[Beech]

I had a session for a songwriter recently and I used a Rode NT4 stereo mic and nothing else. You could try using your 184s as a coincident (XY) pair. In a good room this works well.