Protools HD | native card or omni

killbert · 19th August 2011

Have any of you used it yet in professional studio set up. I heard that u can't run the omni on it's own, that it only works with the native DSP card. And another question...How Does the card operate if the plugins aren't TDM ? I mean...it looks like the computer is doing all the work. How good is it with handling numerous plugin instances. Let me know if you got that system as I don't wanna blow my money on the wrong gear.

psycho_monkey · 19th August 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by killbert

Have any of you used it yet in professional studio set up. I heard that u can't run the omni on it's own, that it only works with the native DSP card. And another question...How Does the card operate if the plugins aren't TDM ? I mean...it looks like the computer is doing all the work. How good is it with handling numerous plugin instances. Let me know if you got that system as I don't wanna blow my money on the wrong gear.

The card + Avid interface provide the way to get audio in and out of the computer, just as any other PCIe based interface does.

There is no TDM processing, so processing power depends on your computer. Mac Pros can handle a significant number of plugins, more so than most TDM rigs (although a TDM rig can always handle native AND TDM plugs so will have more power overall). However, HD Native rigs are subject to the same buffer limitations as regular native systems.

Check Avid.com for the differences between HD software and regular PT9, decide if the differences are worth the price difference.

Doc Mixwell · 19th August 2011

HD Native PCI-e + OMNI is a wonderful system. I have a few clients out there right now with these rigs, running Quad, 8 or 12 core Mac's and I am hearing fantastic things from them. They bought the OMNI bundle for just enough I/O, but still very flexible I/O paths. They all wanted an invisible workstation that sounded great and would not get in the way of them and the rest of their stuff.

HD Native PCI-e with a new Mac Pro is seriously backing up the rig with lots of power and these guys are buffering low, getting some work done and never having a problem. The system is very stable and latency is nill. The Sound of the OMNI is great and the mic preamps are VERY good, [surprisingly good]. The converter quality is over and above top notch, clean, wide and deep.

KevWind · 19th August 2011

I run this system (OMNI * HD native card), with a fairly new Mac Pro (Jan 2011 Westmere 6 core) so far its been rock solid here is a snap shot of a mix session
32 tracks some 64 plugins
The only caveat I would add is the fan noise of the OMNI is still a factor ( even after the update) if your tracking in close proximity. Not hateful but still discernable especially through a good Condenser .
[IMG]******//i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii48/KevWind/download.png[/IMG]

killbert · 21st August 2011

Hmm kool now Im a pc user(dell studio xps) on a vista 64bit platform and cubase 6 is my current DAW, I was just wondering if there would be anyone out there using windows OS and running the native HD rig. I actually wanted the omni alone with cubase cause I heard it's got great converters, but it seems that ATM only the MAC/ protools users are the ones enjoying it at it's full potential...

psycho_monkey · 21st August 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by killbert

Hmm kool now Im a pc user(dell studio xps) on a vista 64bit platform and cubase 6 is my current DAW, I was just wondering if there would be anyone out there using windows OS and running the native HD rig. I actually wanted the omni alone with cubase cause I heard it's got great converters, but it seems that ATM only the MAC/ protools users are the ones enjoying it at it's full potential...

You can't run the omni standalone. It needs the hd native card. There are plenty of products with great converters if that's what matters!

Jack Ruston · 21st August 2011

I'm using HD Native with an Omni on a current 8 Core Mac Pro. It is a MONSTER. From a processing perspective you can run absurd numbers of plug ins. Way more than you would need. Of course big instruments can still easily sink even the biggest machines with multiple instances, but overall it's pretty stunning. In testing it initially I created a 192 track session with 32 sample latency and got over 900 Waves SSL strips before the processor started to look shaky. It is actually more powerful than a TDM rig in a mac pro, because of the limitation of RTAS using up a voice with every first instance in the chain in the TDM mixer. Of course in reality either system delivers more than enough punch.

All this extra power comes with advantages in stability. While TDM systems are very stable, they start misbehaving when you're using the last chip and still trying to add stuff. The whole forced plug in rearrangement thing is never a good thing, and often makes ADC go mad. So if, like me you're running a HD3 or less on a G5 for example, you'll be very glad of the complete lack of funny business in that department.

CAVEAT: While it has been extremely stable for me, it is a new system and PT9 software is relatively new. There are, and will be kinks. But I must say it's the most stable PT so far for me, this early in the release cycle.

IF you have HD Accel cards running on a Mac Pro already, and you're not running out of juice, there's very little reason to migrate. The new interfaces represent a real upgrade over the older ones but the HD Native wont change your life. If, however, you're running HD3 PCI on a G5 and processing is becoming an issue, you will benefit.

nst7 · 23rd August 2011

By the way, the Omni can actually be set to operate as a standalone converter. It's mentioned briefly in passing in the manual. But you'd have to have it hooked up to an HD system in order to configure it that way. And it's been hard to find info on exactly how to set it up. I know it uses the mixer function, and someone has mentioned that it can operate both ways simultaneously standalone (both A/D and D/A). But I still don't know exactly how it's set up (I don't yet own the unit).

If you are able to find out exactly how it can be set up this way, you could buy the unit, go to an HD equipped studio (native or TDM) and have them set it up, then you could use it as a converter hooked up digitally to your existing interface.

killbert · 23rd August 2011

Spewing I really liked the reviews about the omni. Expensive system but reliable I guess...

psycho_monkey · 23rd August 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by nst7

By the way, the Omni can actually be set to operate as a standalone converter. It's mentioned briefly in passing in the manual. But you'd have to have it hooked up to an HD system in order to configure it that way. And it's been hard to find info on exactly how to set it up. I know it uses the mixer function, and someone has mentioned that it can operate both ways simultaneously standalone (both A/D and D/A). But I still don't know exactly how it's set up (I don't yet own the unit).

If you are able to find out exactly how it can be set up this way, you could buy the unit, go to an HD equipped studio (native or TDM) and have them set it up, then you could use it as a converter hooked up digitally to your existing interface.

Fair enough. If you bought an omni to use it like this, assuming you weren't buying it to use with the HD rig you're intending to buy, it's kind of a waste of money - you're paying for features you can't use. Better to buy a standalone converter that doesn't require a round trip to get set up!

ellipse · 8th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind

[IMG]******//i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii48/KevWind/download.png[/IMG]

I have mixed sessions like this with PT9, no HD native on my 2011 i5 Macbook pro over and over again. I am considering paths to HD once I have the funds, but frankly it's very confusing as to if HD native is really going to be anything of an upgrade. I mean no disrespect with my first sentence, I am just trying to get to some sort of a truth here.

Thanks!

Chris

psycho_monkey · 8th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellipse

I have mixed sessions like this with PT9, no HD native on my 2011 i5 Macbook pro over and over again. I am considering paths to HD once I have the funds, but frankly it's very confusing as to if HD native is really going to be anything of an upgrade. I mean no disrespect with my first sentence, I am just trying to get to some sort of a truth here.

Thanks!

Chris

Do you need low latency monitoring when running a high buffer size?

Do you need up to 64io?

Do you need a tightly integrated system, with one point of contact for tech support?

Do you need the advanced features of the Complete Production Toolkit?

do you need the sync features of PT HD, or the input monitoring options?

All things that HD native gives you.

ellipse · 8th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Do you need low latency monitoring when running a high buffer size?

Do you need up to 64io?

Do you need a tightly integrated system, with one point of contact for tech support?

Do you need the advanced features of the Complete Production Toolkit?

do you need the sync features of PT HD, or the input monitoring options?

All things that HD native gives you.

Thank you so much!

KevWind · 9th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellipse

I have mixed sessions like this with PT9, no HD native on my 2011 i5 Macbook pro over and over again. I am considering paths to HD once I have the funds, but frankly it's very confusing as to if HD native is really going to be anything of an upgrade. I mean no disrespect with my first sentence, I am just trying to get to some sort of a truth here.

Thanks!

Chris

In the end of course only you can determine if you #1 have the need and #2 have the desire to spend the extra funds on HD Native.
All I can add to the list psycho-monkey gave is in the configuration that includes the OMNI you also get 8 excellent converters and 2 reasonable mic pres. But again how this relates to value , all depends on your specific situation

RBiggs · 9th September 2011

psycho-monkey you always give good advice!!! Very good reads here on GS.

Digibear · 9th September 2011

I hope this isn't a hijjack, but...

Currently I use PT 9 to get 32 channels out into SSL converters via ADAT lightpipe (they also have MADI). I really like the SSL, so want to keep them. I'd like to get 64 channels out. Is there a way to do this without breaking the bank?

It seems that I could get the native card, but then need 2 really expensive and otherwise stupid PT to MADI boxes. Is this so? Any other ways?

Thanks.

psycho_monkey · 9th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBiggs

psycho-monkey you always give good advice!!! Very good reads here on GS.

Cheers mate

Pro Tools is one of the few things I'm "qualified" to give advice on I guess!

MykGrv · 16th September 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellipse

Thank you so much!

i work at a high end music store and i asked the avid rep about the diffrences between the two ( hd and le) his response was basically. once you get the complete production toolkit you basically haveall the capabilities of HD. me personally... im already runnin pt8 with apogee converters sounding magnificent. the complete production toolkit is just gonna give you the HD capabilities. but if you've got a quad or 8 core and a uad card or some shyt....

bong! More then enough plug power

19th August 2011	#3
Doc Mixwell 70% coffee & 30% beer Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Quincy, MA Posts: 7,728	HD Native PCI-e + OMNI is a wonderful system. I have a few clients out there right now with these rigs, running Quad, 8 or 12 core Mac's and I am hearing fantastic things from them. They bought the OMNI bundle for just enough I/O, but still very flexible I/O paths. They all wanted an invisible workstation that sounded great and would not get in the way of them and the rest of their stuff. HD Native PCI-e with a new Mac Pro is seriously backing up the rig with lots of power and these guys are buffering low, getting some work done and never having a problem. The system is very stable and latency is nill. The Sound of the OMNI is great and the mic preamps are VERY good, [surprisingly good]. The converter quality is over and above top notch, clean, wide and deep. __________________ Adam Brass adam@dspdoctor.com DSPdoctor "Pro Audio Gear And Advice for the Modern Recording Studio" ________________ "Any opinions above are worth exactly what you paid for them." Anonymous "If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward. Thomas Edison RTFM

19th August 2011	#4
KevWind Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2006 Location: Wyoming .. The Rim Posts: 1,460	I run this system (OMNI * HD native card), with a fairly new Mac Pro (Jan 2011 Westmere 6 core) so far its been rock solid here is a snap shot of a mix session 32 tracks some 64 plugins The only caveat I would add is the fan noise of the OMNI is still a factor ( even after the update) if your tracking in close proximity. Not hateful but still discernable especially through a good Condenser . [IMG]*****//i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii48/KevWind/download.png[/IMG] __________________ "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein Enjoy the Journey --- Kev WindWeaver Music* http://http://soundcloud.com/you/tracks

9th September 2011	#16
Digibear Gear addict Joined: Oct 2007 Location: Boston MA Posts: 485	I hope this isn't a hijjack, but... Currently I use PT 9 to get 32 channels out into SSL converters via ADAT lightpipe (they also have MADI). I really like the SSL, so want to keep them. I'd like to get 64 channels out. Is there a way to do this without breaking the bank? It seems that I could get the native card, but then need 2 really expensive and otherwise stupid PT to MADI boxes. Is this so? Any other ways? Thanks. __________________ Best, --- Jordan Tishler Digital Bear Entertainment Mixer/Producer 888 844 2327 (BEAR) SSL Mixing, Music Production and Artist Management -------------------------------------------------------------- http://digitalbear.com/ http://facebook.com/digitalbear

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19th August 2011	#1
killbert Gear Head Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 46 Thread Starter	Protools HD \| native card or omni Have any of you used it yet in professional studio set up. I heard that u can't run the omni on it's own, that it only works with the native DSP card. And another question...How Does the card operate if the plugins aren't TDM ? I mean...it looks like the computer is doing all the work. How good is it with handling numerous plugin instances. Let me know if you got that system as I don't wanna blow my money on the wrong gear.

21st August 2011	#5
killbert Gear Head Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 46 Thread Starter	Hmm kool now Im a pc user(dell studio xps) on a vista 64bit platform and cubase 6 is my current DAW, I was just wondering if there would be anyone out there using windows OS and running the native HD rig. I actually wanted the omni alone with cubase cause I heard it's got great converters, but it seems that ATM only the MAC/ protools users are the ones enjoying it at it's full potential...

21st August 2011	#7
Jack Ruston Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Brighton UK Posts: 1,095	I'm using HD Native with an Omni on a current 8 Core Mac Pro. It is a MONSTER. From a processing perspective you can run absurd numbers of plug ins. Way more than you would need. Of course big instruments can still easily sink even the biggest machines with multiple instances, but overall it's pretty stunning. In testing it initially I created a 192 track session with 32 sample latency and got over 900 Waves SSL strips before the processor started to look shaky. It is actually more powerful than a TDM rig in a mac pro, because of the limitation of RTAS using up a voice with every first instance in the chain in the TDM mixer. Of course in reality either system delivers more than enough punch. All this extra power comes with advantages in stability. While TDM systems are very stable, they start misbehaving when you're using the last chip and still trying to add stuff. The whole forced plug in rearrangement thing is never a good thing, and often makes ADC go mad. So if, like me you're running a HD3 or less on a G5 for example, you'll be very glad of the complete lack of funny business in that department. CAVEAT: While it has been extremely stable for me, it is a new system and PT9 software is relatively new. There are, and will be kinks. But I must say it's the most stable PT so far for me, this early in the release cycle. IF you have HD Accel cards running on a Mac Pro already, and you're not running out of juice, there's very little reason to migrate. The new interfaces represent a real upgrade over the older ones but the HD Native wont change your life. If, however, you're running HD3 PCI on a G5 and processing is becoming an issue, you will benefit.

23rd August 2011	#8
nst7 Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,066	By the way, the Omni can actually be set to operate as a standalone converter. It's mentioned briefly in passing in the manual. But you'd have to have it hooked up to an HD system in order to configure it that way. And it's been hard to find info on exactly how to set it up. I know it uses the mixer function, and someone has mentioned that it can operate both ways simultaneously standalone (both A/D and D/A). But I still don't know exactly how it's set up (I don't yet own the unit). If you are able to find out exactly how it can be set up this way, you could buy the unit, go to an HD equipped studio (native or TDM) and have them set it up, then you could use it as a converter hooked up digitally to your existing interface.

9th September 2011	#15
RBiggs Gear interested Joined: Jun 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 7	psycho-monkey you always give good advice!!! Very good reads here on GS.