pair of ksm44 or 414 xls for m/s micing?

audiothings · 20th March 2006

Am buying a new matched pair of microphones for a client. The application is m/s micing of indian acoustic music quartets (voice, 2 perc insts and violin). Down here, the only option is to buy, sight unseen.

After quite a bit of research and pricing/availability in india, i have narrowed the options to a pair of akg c414xls or shure ksm44s.... both of these have the features i need at a price i can afford. (my criterion = low noise, unhyped frequency response, and no boutique manufacturers as smaller manufacturers have no presence in india).

given that i own neither, i seek your impressions.

thanks,

jai shankar.

seaneldon · 20th March 2006

m/s recording can be done with two different mics. why not get one of each?

audiothings · 20th March 2006

thanks for the suggestion. I mentioned only m/s in my post but we may go blumlein when possible... in any case i was was under the impression that a stereo pair will be more phase coherent than dissimilar models.

jai shankar.

bigbone · 20th March 2006

KSM 44 are very flat and neutral.........AKG 414 are a little bit more color,
but there are BOTH great mic, you can go wrong with one or the other

davenutz · 20th March 2006

I really like 414's as instrument mics, so i would probably take that route, but it would be an inane thing for me to tell you what sounsd best to your ears.

Are Neumanns available in india?
If so, check out the TLM170 (i think the current model is the tlm 170R), if it sounds the same as the older, non-R model, then it is worth taking the time to chcek out.

the 170 i use regularly has never let me down on acoustic guitar, shaker, tambourine, and various other percussion. Sounds great on the right voice, and as a drum room mic. Takes EQ and compression very well.

audiothings · 20th March 2006

thanks. Neumanns and sennheisers are available here but i (my client) can't afford them... would go with the mkh80/800 if the budget permitted. oh... also audio technica, but they don't have a model i want to go with... have used the 4050 a lot... but its never my first choice...

jai shankar.

bonne · 20th March 2006

Hi

I've worked a lot with two KSM 44s in M/S on acoustic instruments.

The trouble seems to be the off-axis response of the S mic. I was never satisfied with that and have since changed my S mic to Sennheiser MKH30, with much better results. The "phasey", hollow sound I used to get has disappeared.

It also helps a lot to make sure your M and S mics are time and phase alligned. If you have a "scrub" tool in your sequencer zoom in to sample-level and check if the M track and the S track start sounding at the same samplecount on your time diplay (set to samples). Nudge one of the tracks if neccesary until they do. Once the timing is taken care of you could use the Voxengo phase plug-in (PHA-979), or similar, to get the two tracks in phase. You'll know when you get it right by the fullness of the sound. The Little Labs IBP box is another alternative.

MKH30s can be found on Ebay from time to time at quite resonable prices. Great mic.

Good luck

Jørn

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20th March 2006	#2
seaneldon Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Bahstahn, MA Posts: 2,687	m/s recording can be done with two different mics. why not get one of each?

20th March 2006	#3
audiothings Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,257 Thread Starter	thanks for the suggestion. I mentioned only m/s in my post but we may go blumlein when possible... in any case i was was under the impression that a stereo pair will be more phase coherent than dissimilar models. jai shankar.

20th March 2006	#4
bigbone Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Montreal Qc Posts: 1,631	KSM 44 are very flat and neutral.........AKG 414 are a little bit more color, but there are BOTH great mic, you can go wrong with one or the other

20th March 2006	#5
davenutz Gear maniac Joined: Feb 2004 Location: New York CIty Posts: 276	I really like 414's as instrument mics, so i would probably take that route, but it would be an inane thing for me to tell you what sounsd best to your ears. Are Neumanns available in india? If so, check out the TLM170 (i think the current model is the tlm 170R), if it sounds the same as the older, non-R model, then it is worth taking the time to chcek out. the 170 i use regularly has never let me down on acoustic guitar, shaker, tambourine, and various other percussion. Sounds great on the right voice, and as a drum room mic. Takes EQ and compression very well.

20th March 2006	#7
bonne Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 273	Hi I've worked a lot with two KSM 44s in M/S on acoustic instruments. The trouble seems to be the off-axis response of the S mic. I was never satisfied with that and have since changed my S mic to Sennheiser MKH30, with much better results. The "phasey", hollow sound I used to get has disappeared. It also helps a lot to make sure your M and S mics are time and phase alligned. If you have a "scrub" tool in your sequencer zoom in to sample-level and check if the M track and the S track start sounding at the same samplecount on your time diplay (set to samples). Nudge one of the tracks if neccesary until they do. Once the timing is taken care of you could use the Voxengo phase plug-in (PHA-979), or similar, to get the two tracks in phase. You'll know when you get it right by the fullness of the sound. The Little Labs IBP box is another alternative. MKH30s can be found on Ebay from time to time at quite resonable prices. Great mic. Good luck Jørn