4Ch Pre's on Drums -API 3124+ or Vintech 473 or SSL VHD or UA 4-710d

[End Over End]

Hey All,

Please stick to these mic pre choices only and do not add other mic pre's into this discussion.

Can you describe the differences in these mic pre's if you OWN THEM AND HAVE USED THEM ON POP/ROCK DRUMS please?

I have the Neve 1073DPA and The Portico 5024 on order and need 4 more channels to make recording drums a reality.

Stay the Neveish route with the Vintech 473?
(for congruity)

Should I have the API 3124+ option? used with Sure A15AS output attennuators. (keep in mind it would be blended with Neve somewhere in the tracks to fill out the kit)
API tends to have followers that chant that it is "best on drums" who seem to be mindless non-users going on rumours and legends - is it Hype?

Anyone have the Solid State Logic XLogic Alpha VHD 4-Channel Preamp?

Very few opinions on the UA 4-710d with drums
(we need a brand new thread on it)
Are you tracking drums with this in a 8 mic or more setup?
If so please join in as many are very interested in this new amp.

I have read all that I can find on the forums on this subject, most threads have been hijacked and are incomplete due to off topic suggestions.

Thank you for staying on topic.
Feel free to point me to other threads with samples.

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by End Over End

Should I have the API 3124+ option? used with Sure A15AS output attennuators. (keep in mind it would be blended with Neve somewhere in the tracks to fill out the kit)
API tends to have followers that chant that it is "best on drums" who seem to be mindless non-users going on rumours and legends - is it Hype?

If it's hype it's probably the longest hype of history..
I'd go for the API, no doubt. Altho' I never heard the vintech.
Don't like that UA pre. Nothing wrong with the Alpha, clean, kinda flat tho'
def not even close to the 3124.

As for "blending" it with the neve, I highly doubt that's gonna be a problem.

[End Over End]

Originally Posted by Retinal

If it's hype it's probably the longest hype of history..
I'd go for the API, no doubt. Altho' I never heard the vintech.
Don't like that UA pre. Nothing wrong with the Alpha, clean, kinda flat tho'
def not even close to the 3124.

As for "blending" it with the neve, I highly doubt that's gonna be a problem.

I am starting to believe it's not all hype, but I need others to chime in: as to if there is a superior option.
How many APIs do you use in your studio?

All the best.

[Dr.fire.K]

I have the SSL Alpha VHD and have used it on drums a bit.

I wouldn't call it super clean. Especailly compared to my Focusrite ISA 428 it's rather colored. The harmonic knob can change the sound quite a bit. I've mainly been using it for snare and toms. Or kick when the LA610 isn't free.

Can't compare it to either API style or Neve, never spent time with those, sorry.

[NathanEldred]

I prefer Vintech on kick and snare to most faster preamps. It's got a nice subtle saturation to it when lightly pushed.

[777Artin]

You should have added :

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I prefer Vintech on kick and snare to most faster preamps as we don't sell the others. It's got a nice subtle saturation to it when lightly pushed. Other then that i don't know..........Vintech are the only one on your list we sell

I would have more respect you you guys telling the truth.

Where can i find a real pro-audio forum on the net, this one is full of XXXX.

tutt

[burster1]

API pres have a mid boost that give drums and guitars a bigger sound. No hype just the truth. Neves are great for a all round big sound plus they crunch really nice. The Portico is going to be clean and big sounding. My friend has a 5012 and I was impressed by how much bigger sounding it was compared to the 10 or so other pres we compared it to. So much so that I sold my Hardy Twin Servos and plan on getting two 517s

[msquared]

Since you have Neve/Neveish gear and are looking to *add* to your preamps then the obvious choice is the Vintech. It's the most similar to what you already have.

[cubehead]

API = awesome. I would have 24 if I could afford it.

[thegatsby]

Originally Posted by End Over End

Hey All,

Please stick to these mic pre choices only and do not add other mic pre's into this discussion.

Can you describe the differences in these mic pre's if you OWN THEM AND HAVE USED THEM ON POP/ROCK DRUMS please?

I have the Neve 1073DPA and The Portico 5024 on order and need 4 more channels to make recording drums a reality.

Stay the Neveish route with the Vintech 473?
(for congruity)

Should I have the API 3124+ option? used with Sure A15AS output attennuators. (keep in mind it would be blended with Neve somewhere in the tracks to fill out the kit)
API tends to have followers that chant that it is "best on drums" who seem to be mindless non-users going on rumours and legends - is it Hype?

Anyone have the Solid State Logic XLogic Alpha VHD 4-Channel Preamp?

Very few opinions on the UA 4-710d with drums
(we need a brand new thread on it)
Are you tracking drums with this in a 8 mic or more setup?
If so please join in as many are very interested in this new amp.

I have read all that I can find on the forums on this subject, most threads have been hijacked and are incomplete due to off topic suggestions.

Thank you for staying on topic.
Feel free to point me to other threads with samples.

Hey man. I think I commented on your other thread and recommended you the 473's.

I would like to just throw in my opinion here.

I have used both as an engineer and a drummer playing on a record.
Both are amazing no doubt. But each has their own unique characters.
API is mid forward aggressive, vintech will give you smooth thick tones. Personally I like the API on close mic drums (Kick in, snare top, toms) and Neve-ish style pre's on Overheads, Rooms, etc.

With the Api you will definitely need to get an output attenuator control the levels in your DAW, especially on drums. The Vintech already has output control on it. Though the Vintech is almost 3k, but then again an api with the an output attenuator.

Another thing you need to decide is if you want all the same pre's on drums or mix and match. A lot of old school guys prefer to use the same pre's on all the drums they think if you mix and match it sounds "too messy". So thats something you need to decide on your own.

Another decision you need to think about that the Vintech has EQ and the API does not.

In the end, both are fantastic preamps and can get achieve great results.

Hope this helps you.

[RoundBadge]

just my experience.wanted an affordable Neve "lunchbox" type deal.had an early 473.
when we a/b'd to the real console 1073's? .. they just sounded smaller.
sold it.
i'd do the API anyday.have a console full of em.
call your dealer and demo everything

[phillysoulman]

Originally Posted by End Over End

Hey All,

Please stick to these mic pre choices only and do not add other mic pre's into this discussion.

Can you describe the differences in these mic pre's if you OWN THEM AND HAVE USED THEM ON POP/ROCK DRUMS please?

I have the Neve 1073DPA and The Portico 5024 on order and need 4 more channels to make recording drums a reality.

Stay the Neveish route with the Vintech 473?
(for congruity)

Should I have the API 3124+ option? used with Sure A15AS output attennuators. (keep in mind it would be blended with Neve somewhere in the tracks to fill out the kit)
API tends to have followers that chant that it is "best on drums" who seem to be mindless non-users going on rumours and legends - is it Hype?

Anyone have the Solid State Logic XLogic Alpha VHD 4-Channel Preamp?

Very few opinions on the UA 4-710d with drums
(we need a brand new thread on it)
Are you tracking drums with this in a 8 mic or more setup?
If so please join in as many are very interested in this new amp.

I have read all that I can find on the forums on this subject, most threads have been hijacked and are incomplete due to off topic suggestions.

Thank you for staying on topic.
Feel free to point me to other threads with samples.

I have two 710 4 ds(8 channels) and I absolutely love them on drums...and so will you.

[Faderix]

I have API's but I recently borrowed the SSL Alpha VHD for a try to still my curiousness about it. I must say you get a lot of preamp for the money. If budget are an issue I really think this is a great option. They are clean, cleaner than API's but thought they had a nice punch and great tight bottom for the kick. I also thought that you could get some interesting mojo when just adding a touch of the color button and distort it some. Probably not useful for everything since adding to much of it the sound started to get a bit hard but I thought it could be quite useful on the snare.
I really can’t comment about the UA 4-710d but If it’s the same preamps as UA 8110 I think it’s also great for drums.
API is always amazing for drums even though I prefer other preamps for overheads and kick.

[joemeek]

api great

vintech -- i don´t know but probably also good
but totally different sound(neveish)


depends on style/preferences...if you like neve or api better (for drums or anything else)



forget the UA!!!
i did not hear the ssl yet...

[Jim@SSL]

I regularly use the 3124 and the VHD pres on drums. I'd be happy with either.

[Fishnmusician]

I have some API 212L and like them on lots of things including drums. You might consider trying the API's with SL 2520 Red Dot op amp's also. They made a different animal out of mine in a good way.
Sorry I cant compare to the others you listed.

[Cerpintaxt]

+1 for the API, i have the 3124+ and love it on drums, great punchy tones.

[MTStudios]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I prefer Vintech on kick and snare to most faster preamps. It's got a nice subtle saturation to it when lightly pushed.

+1

And those shelves can be quite useful. Although they always leave me wishing for a sweepable mid band... bastards.

They're more coloured, I would say, in a thick way.

I've used both these sets of pre's in the same session but I have a lot more experience with the Vintech's than those particular API pre's.

I don't think you'd regret either decision, unless you're a real self loathing prick
But seriously they're both great.

EDIT: Oh, I'd probably pick the API's over the vintech's for things like guitar & vox, depending on the mics I'm using. But in regards to drums I do love the feel of the vintechs.

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by End Over End

I am starting to believe it's not all hype, but I need others to chime in: as to if there is a superior option.
How many APIs do you use in your studio?

All the best.

Aside from 2 Gamas and 2 7602MKII I only have and use API pres
I had several, I tried more and like I said, experience and personal taste
told me I'm an API guy, I prefer them 9 time on 10 on everything, so I indeed am biased, API meets my taste perfectly.

One word on the VHD of the SSL, it can be nice on some material, but i remember finding it very
program depending, meaning, it was hard to control, material with very wide dynamic was not touched at all in the
quieter parts and/or too much distorted in the highest parts

[Ward Pike]

Get a 4 chan Focusrite 428 (mark 1). Awesome on toms, outside kick, cymbals, overheads.

For me, it's all Neve on cymbals: I use 1073dpa on overheads, a Vintech on hats, a 1272 on ride.

The ƒƒ428 is my pre of choice for all toms and outside kick.

[Ward Pike]

I meant to add at the top, but must have highlighted and typed over my first bit... the API would make the most sense, but if you're open to options....

Sorry about that!

[dambro2]

I had the VHD and sold it and now use API or GR. The VHD is a great value for 4 channels of good quality preamps. It just wasn't my cup of joe.

[hgregg61]

Of the units you mentioned, I would definately go with the API - I wish I had 1 or 4.

I know you said you didn't want other suggestions, but the Daking Mic Pre IV and the Sebatron VMP 4000 are both amazing 4 channel pres for drums. I own both and I always fill up when tracking drums. I use them for everything, except I usually run the room mics through my Great River for a little bit of a nevish vibe.

[End Over End]

Anyone using a Neve and API combo of sorts?

Seems that most of you are going for that "one" sound as opposed to the ability to switch the Kick and Snare pre's for other flavors when tracking various talent.

It would be great if you could post your Mic Pre and Mic combos
on a per drum basis.

I couldn't find enough of this info on the thread regarding pictures of drum mic'ing techniques.

Please post the genre of music this would apply to as well.

Copy and paste this to make it fast for you

Kick in Mic:
Preamp:

Kick Out Mic:
Preamp:

Snare Top Mic:
Preamp:

Snare Bottom Mic:
Preamp:

Tom1 Mic:
Preamp:

Tom2 Mic:
Preamp:

Fl Tom3:
Preamp:

Overheads Mics pair:
Preamps:

Hat Mic:
Preamp:

Room Mic1:
Preamp

Room Mic2:
Preamp

Thanks to all for your info, it is honestly greatly appreciated.

[End Over End]

My plans:

please comment on these configurations.

I would like suggestions on room mics.

I use Drumagog 5 to fill out the drum sound sometimes,
this is good for the kick out sub.

I sometimes do not mic the Hat.
----------
Some configurations I plan on using:
----------
Setup #1 - Rock Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: RND Portico

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: API 312

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: 1073DPA

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: RND Portico

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: RND Portico

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: RND Portico
-----------------------------------

Setup #2 Modern Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: RND Portico

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: API 312

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: RND Portico

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: API 312

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: 1073DPA

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: 1073DPA
---------------------------------------------
Setup #3 Vintage Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: 1073DPA

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: 1073DPA

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: RND Portico

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: API 312

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: RND Portico

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: API 312

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: API 312
　

[End Over End]

Looking at my post above "on paper" one would tend to think that I may want to replace the API option with Vintech for consistency.
Anyone agree?

The API option on drums is essential in some opinions.

Mindbending to think of what the options will sound like mixing the
bunch.

please chime in

[greyskull]

Without meaning to add to the rabble; Im gonna say API,
It's really punchy, upfront and forward without being harsh at any time...
HOWEVER
You also probably want to buy some in-line attenuators, which you can switch between input and output on them, depending wter you want to saturate them or not, as the 3124 can be hot hot hot!

I mean... SDC on snare drum on a loud drum is just NOT going to happen without attenuators. even with the pad in!

Also, the pad does something a little funky to the high-end, it's nicer off if you can swing it!

However it's still definitely one of the best pres I've ever used, especially on pop/rock drums

[_Ludovico]

My buddy has both but we have not used them extensively yet as he bought them in the last year only, and in your case I would opt for a different flavor and buy the api, and get some mics with the money left. When I started looking at preamps I thought the vintech was kinda cool with the EQ section but thinking about it now I wish they'd make a 4 channel unit without the eq and price it like the api.

[burster1]

Originally Posted by End Over End

Looking at my post above "on paper" one would tend to think that I may want to replace the API option with Vintech for consistency.
Anyone agree?

No.

You have a couple Neve pres and a 4 ch Portico that sounds nothing like a vintage Neve. Read the review below. The Porticos are designed to sound big and clear.

Mix magazine product review of the Rupert Neve Designs Portico 5032 Mic Preamp/EQ

If you buy the Vintech you will have a Neve clone that sounds similar but, not exact to the Neve 1073DPA especially when you saturate the output trannies. The API 3124 will give you a mid boost that sound nothing like the 1073DPA or Portico but, are very useful for creating mid punchy tracks. Get the API for now and either buy another 3124 or 4 ch Neve something after you decide the sound you like the most. If you don't buy the API you will never know what you are missing.

[End Over End]

Anyone care to comment on these setups? #1#2#3

Originally Posted by End Over End

My plans:

please comment on these configurations.

I would like suggestions on room mics.

I use Drumagog 5 to fill out the drum sound sometimes,
this is good for the kick out sub.

I sometimes do not mic the Hat.
----------
Some configurations I plan on using:
----------
Setup #1 - Rock Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: RND Portico

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: API 312

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: 1073DPA

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: RND Portico

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: RND Portico

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: RND Portico
-----------------------------------

Setup #2 Modern Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: RND Portico

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: API 312

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: API 312

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: RND Portico

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: API 312

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: 1073DPA

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: 1073DPA
---------------------------------------------
Setup #3 Vintage Drums

Kick in Mic: Beta 52
Preamp: 1073DPA

Kick Out Mic: U87
Preamp: Manley Voxbox

Snare Top Mic: sm57
Preamp: 1073DPA

Snare Bottom Mic: sm57
Preamp: Focusrite Green Range

Tom1 Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Tom2 Mic: sm57
Preamp: RND Portico

Fl Tom3: 421
Preamp: RND Portico

Overheads Mics pair: c414btlII
Preamps: API 312

Hat Mic: c1000
Preamp: RND Portico

Room Mic1: undertermined
Preamps: API 312

Room Mic2: undertermined
Preamps: API 312