EQ Help...

[Davido]

I always thought that EQ was something you could skip externally. That Plug Ins could do the job. I have researched the topic no end, but wanted some piece of mind by picking the experienced people's minds here...

I've got a decent kit list now, which I've attached below to help, but feel like I'm really missing out by not having a great EQ unit. I feel like my mixes and recordings are being limited by having to use plug ins. I find myself not EQing as much as maybe I need to due to this. I have an old Orban 622B which is good, but maybe not GREAT.

Am i right in feeling this way, or looking at my gear list, should I be thinking of adding another compressor (Germanium) and sticking to plug ins for EQ...

I have a budget of around $2200, so the likes of the Massive Passive and Pul Tec are out of my league right now.

Main contenders at the minute are a used API 5500, or the Thermionic Culture Pullet (I have some decent pre's for gain staging...)

I love both TC and API stuff. The API is more expensive, but the Pullet doesnt do much for bottom and tops.

I would prefer a dual unit, but doesn't bother me too much.

Thanks in advance!


Gear I have (exc mics):

Thermionic Culture Fat Bustard
Thermionic Culture Vulture
SSL X Desk
Chandler TG2
Vintech 273
DAV BG1U
API 3124
A Designs Pacifica
BAE 1272
Mohog 1176
API 2500
Manley ELOP
2 x Distressors (with brit mod)
Orban 622B EQ

[Retinal]

Go with the 5500

[fifthflaw]

Dave I'd be looking at ssl rack personally. Your more than welcome to come and try my arsenal audio eq as well

[Davido]

Hello mate,

Have just got rid of my x rack. Just couldn't get used to it/them. Far too subtle for me.

How are you finding the Arsenal/Jdk EQ? I've read good things bit not sure if it will hold a light to the API or Thermionic Culture?

[fifthflaw]

Odd I thought the x rack eqs were basically an aws900 eq which I found to be quite nice.

The arsenal Is a tone shaper rather than something you can be really drastic with. Nice sound though especially at that price

[Davido]

Yeah I think they are, but I really don't like the SSL AWS EQ's on the 900 at Blast. Not really a fan of SSL stuff anyway, though I find the SSL X Desk good for routing at the studio.

May take you up on the offer to pop round and have a play with the Arsenal EQ. May have found a reasonably priced 5500 though...Though the A Designs Hammer is now looking tempting!

[WhiteLieMusic]

Yea I was going to say I love the sound of the SSL E series channel strip, which is discontinued but you could still find it. But since you don't like it, try looking at an API 550B in 500 series. Great sound and you can always add other options with the Lunchbox

[asagaai]

Davido- "I feel like my mixes and recordings are being limited by having to use plug ins."

You do not really say whether you want it primarily for tracking or for mix shaping.

I have the specks, harrison great river eq32, avedis e27, manley mini massive, chandler little devils and CLMK11 7602.

The avedis e27 has deep soundstage with a high/high mids sheen but limited bands/filters- ie cannot control/meld low end and cut at 350 hz odd to take out mud at same time- bands are limited.

The specks do not add magic but are great problem solvers.

The eq32 have really beautiful classy highs (of a mix buss quality) and great steep filters, but is more of a fine polishing marble polish eq.

My pick for tracking and mix sculpting are the Chandler Little Devils - nice hp filters, great bands (the top end is a little limited) and has a huge sound and does some massive low/low mid sculpting, and nice bite at 2.7 k odd for snares- just has that uh...neve....rmind vibe. Not the magic classy finnessed tops of the eq 32 (or the mini massive), but for tracking and mix magic this would be my pick. Ive now got 4, could do with 4 more.

Surprised not more commentary about the little devil eqs, its either the "hush now" factor at play or my ears being f#@#&d.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ

[Davido]

Thanks Asaagi for that, I'll look into the units you've mentioned. It's mainly for shaping during mix down, I tend to not EQ when tracking, and rather rely on mic placements to get the balance right.

This is obviously good practice, but I have come to a point where I new to start using shape and tonal EQ more in my mixing. I obviously filter etc, which plug ins are great for.

[toneguru]

Perhaps a Lang PEQ2?

Track using it and print with it. Especially for tracking DI.

I much prefer to get my tones dialed in as early as possible. Live or studio.

IMHO, there are many un-scientific notions that lead me to believe the sound will be superior to the alternative of tone shaping on the backend. Although, even for mixing the Lang rocks.

$2,200 might just be enough to pick up a Lang.



- Cheers

[KevWind]

Since I have no outboard eq, I am interested in this topic as well ( outboard eq vs plugs ) right now in the box I use very little if any additive eq. I have PT and use the Digi Eq's for subtractive.
Sometimes on my vocals I use the waves JJP pultec. but that's about it.

[Pschelfh]

I just ordered a Pullet to attach to my Thermionic Rooster, should be a nice little combo!

Peter.

[andreaeffe]

I'd say that if U need a really good and swiss-army-knife eq, doing from bland to surgical, from sweet to dramatic, there's nothing U couldn't achieve with an Amek R.Neve 9098 eq.
The excellent separate filters, the shelf/peak top & low bands, the fully parametric mids, the notching capabilities, the generous band overlap and all-frequencies-well-covered, the glow & sheen Neve circuits, and the Focusrite ISA tipe clean sound, with some added balls, R&R, bells & whistles. A lot to like.
Plus, there is a very, very good mic pre in there (just no instrument/DI input).
Plus, for the budget U mention, U can get a PAIR.

For bang-for buck, if U still can find them somewhere, Ted Fletcher's old TF PRO P9 eq is a very, very nice sounding dual eq - albeit with less functions & control than the Amek 9098, and with some frequency choice quirks & peculiarities.

Also, for (again) less functions & control than the Amek 9098 but (again) excellent sound and a bit more subjectively "vintage colour", I'd recommend the Daking Mic Pre EQ and (again) preamp, this one including an instrument/DI input. Like anything that Geoffrey Daking makes, it's a stunner.

If U want some really sweet tube harmonics, and a lot of frequency choices & control, I personally absolutely adore the Summit EQF 100 parametric.
Sounds fantastic, gorgeously richonly reservation is don't use it for extreme frequency boosts, don't look for razor/notch cuts, and the knobs could have a stiffer feel/action.


Of course there are other, more coloured/specific eqs out there, including the lovely Chandler Little Devils mentioned above, and a lot of more vintage stuff including all the Pultecs & their clones and offspring, some truly excellent), but generally speaking they are all a lot more specific, sometimes temperamental, sometimes limited, as in offer nowhere near the aforementioned swiss-army-knife type of control and versatility that U seem to be looking for, from what U wrote in your original post.

All of the above in my opinion & experience, of course.


A
F

[Ward Pike]

In terms of great EQ and bang for the buck, it's very hard to beat Vintech's X73i (Neve 1073 style EQ) and it comes with a 1073 preamp at no extra charge! LOL

Currently on sale at studio economik for $1279. That's pretty sweet.

I tried going without any eternal EQ for about 2 weeks and quickly realized the futility of just EQing in the box.

That being said, I'll EQ as little as possible and only when absolutely necessary as always, choosing instead to use microphone selection and placement as the best EQ solution there is.

[jonathan jetter]

i own a 5500.

i would say the strong points are as follows:

one of the only EQs where i ever have enjoyed boosting low-mids. if a track is thin, 1db@240 can be great.
the high-mid band is great for adding some snap to things that should rock but don't.
the low shelving band is great for either subtly adding thump, or subtly rolling off too much thump.
lots of headroom.
stepped (fully recallable)

the downsides are as follows:

no HP filter
the "sound" of the unit is sometimes great (slightly darkening/thickening from passing signal through) but sometimes too strong.
the high frequency band is always "edgy" as opposed to "airy." this is great on things that need to rock a bit, but not great on things that need to be gentle. the shelves are more gentle than the bells, and aiming high on the frequency selection helps (the shelves start much lower than the marked frequency), but it just does not do the smooth thing.

[Jonathan@FPA]

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

I'd say that if U need a really good and swiss-army-knife eq, doing from bland to surgical, from sweet to dramatic, there's nothing U couldn't achieve with an Amek R.Neve 9098 eq.
The excellent separate filters, the shelf/peak top & low bands, the fully parametric mids, the notching capabilities, the generous band overlap and all-frequencies-well-covered, the glow & sheen Neve circuits, and the Focusrite ISA tipe clean sound, with some added balls, R&R, bells & whistles. A lot to like.
Plus, there is a very, very good mic pre in there (just no instrument/DI input).
Plus, for the budget U mention, U can get a PAIR.

For bang-for buck, if U still can find them somewhere, Ted Fletcher's old TF PRO P9 eq is a very, very nice sounding dual eq - albeit with less functions & control than the Amek 9098, and with some frequency choice quirks & peculiarities.

Also, for (again) less functions & control than the Amek 9098 but (again) excellent sound and a bit more subjectively "vintage colour", I'd recommend the Daking Mic Pre EQ and (again) preamp, this one including an instrument/DI input. Like anything that Geoffrey Daking makes, it's a stunner.

If U want some really sweet tube harmonics, and a lot of frequency choices & control, I personally absolutely adore the Summit EQF 100 parametric.
Sounds fantastic, gorgeously richonly reservation is don't use it for extreme frequency boosts, don't look for razor/notch cuts, and the knobs could have a stiffer feel/action.


Of course there are other, more coloured/specific eqs out there, including the lovely Chandler Little Devils mentioned above, and a lot of more vintage stuff including all the Pultecs & their clones and offspring, some truly excellent), but generally speaking they are all a lot more specific, sometimes temperamental, sometimes limited, as in offer nowhere near the aforementioned swiss-army-knife type of control and versatility that U seem to be looking for, from what U wrote in your original post.

All of the above in my opinion & experience, of course.


A
F

hey AF:
just so you know, the 9098 can be used as a DI fairly well, by just adding a 1/4" > XLR adaptor, virtually all of the AMEK line could do that, ie CIB, Galileo console input, etc.. Takes lots of level, not too high impedance, so better for keys, etc., than say a strat...

[DoctorG]

Davido, I'm in favour of the known practice with hybrid setups where ITB EQ is used for surgery and cutting then adding tone and shape with OTB EQ after or before OTB compression.

I'm not sure if you're summing stems or individual tracks or a combination, but adding some stereo EQs with dual mono or 500 series to your kit would be a good move IMO, especially as the X-Desk is very clean. I'm looking to add a lunchbox with various EQ flavours to my setup for this purpose as I also feel like I'm missing out. Looks like there are plenty of suggestions already mentioned in this thread for you to check out.

[Continental]

api 550a.... all what i need, i have 550b too but
the 550a have more meat....

for cut resonance / problem freq i take plugin eqs

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by Jonathan@FPA

hey AF:
just so you know, the 9098 can be used as a DI fairly well, by just adding a 1/4" > XLR adaptor, virtually all of the AMEK line could do that, ie CIB, Galileo console input, etc.. Takes lots of level, not too high impedance, so better for keys, etc., than say a strat...

Hey Jonathan -

thanks, I do know, ohhh yeahhh - I own, use (and quite adore) 2 units of the 9098 preamp/eq, and I spent a good deal of my recording & mixing years in a couple of studios on Amek Mozart and Hendrix desks...


I just meant they have no let's call it "purpose made", specific DI/instrument input jack straight on the front panel.

Greets & cheers,

A
F

[phatbeatstudio]

All I can say is,its the best in the world and the biggest mistake. But it is my prefference to eq before after or both on hardware EQ.

If you eq a sound before its recorded thats what you have to work with. If you made a mistake and cut the LOWs insted of the lowmids , well you wont be able to get that frequency back again . ITS LOST . but . If you have real skill at EQing and are not worried about making mistakes ,I believe this is the way to do it . To me starting with a recorded sound that is already EQ,d well only enables you to really pollish it in the mix. This is how all the pro,s did it at some time not to long ago.

Hardware EQ. . There is no subsitute for hardware EQ.

SSL NEVE API ect ect chose to use everything in those boards because of the sound quality. I dont think APPLE (steve jobs) ever once called ruppert neve and askd what silicone chip sound,d better. EVER.


In my very humble but outspoken opinion is
Hardware EQ before reord,d or as a hardware insert adds reallism depth 3D quality and actual TONE. You can acheive the same EQ "ITB" but to me its the difference between a girly magazine and a really nice pair sitting in your lap. You can get off on either but there is no substitute for the real thing.

I really like hardware EQ as inserts in PTHD the sound comes alive in a way that makes me stay up for days just mixing. I cant wait for the day when I can afford a big console just for the EQ inserts . That would be my dream come true.

ProTools is great no doubt about it but, almost ever major studio still needs that big league tone that only comes from a board or hardware EQ

[TLH]

You know sometimes you can find used ANT eq's in the classified sections of the forums and rarely on ebay. If you can get your hands on one ( you will have to rack it of course ) these eq's have a really good reputation on the forums and the best part is are well within almost any engineers budget. Check out ANT - makes thick sound thin and visa versa - pretty musical as well for the price....

[Worlez]

There is a Freebird in MJQ going cheap at the moment - if you don't buy it I will!

Al

[kingofswing]

Love my 5500 on most things...when you need some mid snap and bite, or some punchy bottom on the kick / bass.

Check out a pair of Neve 5033 EQ's - smooth, silky, airy, lots of headroom. These babies can be cranked without much fuss, and still sound great. Transformer coupled.

Next on my list to check out - the SSL Stereo EQ for X rack.

[phatbeatstudio]

Originally Posted by Davido

I always thought that EQ was something you could skip externally. That Plug Ins could do the job. I have researched the topic no end, but wanted some piece of mind by picking the experienced people's minds here...

I've got a decent kit list now, which I've attached below to help, but feel like I'm really missing out by not having a great EQ unit. I feel like my mixes and recordings are being limited by having to use plug ins. I find myself not EQing as much as maybe I need to due to this. I have an old Orban 622B which is good, but maybe not GREAT.

Am i right in feeling this way, or looking at my gear list, should I be thinking of adding another compressor (Germanium) and sticking to plug ins for EQ...

I have a budget of around $2200, so the likes of the Massive Passive and Pul Tec are out of my league right now.

Main contenders at the minute are a used API 5500, or the Thermionic Culture Pullet (I have some decent pre's for gain staging...)

I love both TC and API stuff. The API is more expensive, but the Pullet doesnt do much for bottom and tops.

I would prefer a dual unit, but doesn't bother me too much.

Thanks in advance!


Gear I have (exc mics):

Thermionic Culture Fat Bustard
Thermionic Culture Vulture
SSL X Desk
Chandler TG2
Vintech 273
DAV BG1U
API 3124
A Designs Pacifica
BAE 1272
Mohog 1176
API 2500
Manley ELOP
2 x Distressors (with brit mod)
Orban 622B EQ

Get a stereo rack EQ or a pair of channel strips to put on the master buss the sound of your mix sound will elevate I guarante it. plus you get great preamps to, ah shux eh ya im canadian hoser

[deft_bonz]

Funny, I bought a similar setup last year

For me, when switching from ITB to OTB, EQs were crucial. So I bought more EQs than compressors. Because I do EDM, I don't (probably) need as much compression as acoustical recordings.

Depending on the sound you like or you want to get:

API 550s
Chandler Little Devil
Great River 32EQ (very great bang for the buck and the most flexible EQ for 500 frames)

[Atticus Finch]

Plus 1 on the API's
Me personally, in your price range, would go with a vintage 550a or 560. I like the 560 but that's just me...
I highly recomend trying them out though, the do wonders on almost everything.