High End Summing box

[Doc Mixwell]

Hey Rick I had the "shadow build me one and I traded him a mackie mixer. It's 24 inputs using just high quality resistors and wire. That's it..I love these JCFs Rick they are a huge leap in another direction with passive summing. I'm not talking "color", I'm talking depth, space and room to do whatever you want

[RKrizman]

Where's the "evil laugh" smiley?

-R

[RonT]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

If that were the case then running two outputs through a summing box would be equally beneficial as splitting out 22 outputs. Since that's not even close to what happens, the main issue must be in the summing.

Totally not the same thing. What you will notice is if you take a stereo processor and put it on the sum out of a summing mixer with 11 stereo stems going into said summing mixer, the results will almost be the same as taking just one stereo stem through the exact same chain.

Now if you take the summing mixer totally out of the chain then the results are still basically the same.

I am not talking about something with a ton of iron like the bustard, Great River or chandler but your typical summing mixer like the DM 2bus.

Originally Posted by Mixerman

They sell those separately you know. It's called a G384, and after renting one for the better part of 8 years, I finally broke down and bought one for my rack in 1999.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Great Unit! Looks nice in my rack as well. I also have an api 2500, AD Nail and several others that I use to process my busses mostly by using PTHD hardware inserts through Aurora and Rosetta converters.

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Even with the pics I've never been able to recall things exactly and when the vocal only needs to come up a pinch, it's a big deal to me. I don't have experience with running an ITB mix through analog hardware for color but it wasn't necessarily color I was looking for at the mix stage that led to my purchase decision. I was looking for a better soundstage and I'm still learning this box but I will update this again when I've had more than a couple hours on it. The quickn'dirty mix I did last night sounded much more pleasing to my ears when I listened to it this morning. I've looked at a variety of small consoles and came up empty. I simply could not find what I wanted. I'm going to run with the summing box until I can afford the shortloaded SSL. I'm no expert at all but there was another thread about the Tonebuss that somewhat confirmed what I am hearing now.

Totally understandable. I was also sold on summing and the benefits it offered until my hardware collection grew and summing became less and less important for me. Still you learn by experience and you can not get that off of reading forums.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by RonT

Totally not the same thing. What you will notice is if you take a stereo processor and put it on the sum out of a summing mixer with 11 stereo stems going into said summing mixer, the results will almost be the same as taking just one stereo stem through the exact same chain.

Now if you take the summing mixer totally out of the chain then the results are still basically the same.

I am not talking about something with a ton of iron like the bustard, Great River or chandler but your typical summing mixer like the DM 2bus.


Great Unit! Looks nice in my rack as well. I also have an api 2500, AD Nail and several others that I use to process my busses mostly by using PTHD hardware inserts through Aurora and Rosetta converters.



Totally understandable. I was also sold on summing and the benefits it offered until my hardware collection grew and summing became less and less important for me. Still you learn by experience and you can not get that off of reading forums.

I love how you took what mixerman said in quotes, then replied in the negative, totally ignored what he was trying to communicate and made it fit your agenda.

Do you work for Fox News?

J/K

I've tried exactly what you're talking about and I call bullsharky. You can have 10 Grammies on the wall from Thriller and the Hope diamond. This is simply not the same. Its not even close, its masturbation with a rubber on.

I WISH you could just run stuff off the 2Buss DA and get the same result as a summing mixer. Dude how I WISH!


Peace
Illumination

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by illacov

Do you work for Fox News?
Peace
Illumination

Sounds more like MSNBC to me.

[Mixerman]

Originally Posted by RonT

Totally not the same thing. What you will notice is if you take a stereo processor and put it on the sum out of a summing mixer with 11 stereo stems going into said summing mixer, the results will almost be the same as taking just one stereo stem through the exact same chain.

Circular logic much?

Illacov nailed it with his response to you.

That said, I'd love for you to define "stereo processor" for me. That's a might bit vague.

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Sounds more like MSNBC to me.

MSNBC doesn't pretend to not have a slant, and they also base their slant on verifiable facts. Fox just makes crap up completely out of whole cloth and pretends to have no slant whatsoever with their "fair and balanced" mantra. If a commentator is obviously liberal and blatantly admits they have a liberal bias to their commentary, that's an honest position. If a commentator is obviously slanted to the far right, but insists they have no slant whatsoever, that's a dishonest position.

That's all I have to say on that subject.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[RonT]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

If that were the case then running two outputs through a summing box would be equally beneficial as splitting out 22 outputs. Since that's not even close to what happens, the main issue must be in the summing.

Notice he said if that were the case,......well, that is not what I was stating at all. It was not relavent to the arguement I was making. Wasn't trying to be negative but..... was soooooo not what I was explaining.

Originally Posted by illacov

I love how you took what mixerman said in quotes, then replied in the negative, totally ignored what he was trying to communicate and made it fit your agenda.

Do you work for Fox News?

J/K

I've tried exactly what you're talking about and I call bullsharky. You can have 10 Grammies on the wall from Thriller and the Hope diamond. This is simply not the same. Its not even close, its masturbation with a rubber on.

I WISH you could just run stuff off the 2Buss DA and get the same result as a summing mixer. Dude how I WISH!


Peace
Illumination

Ok, apparently there is some miscommunication, Before I go into my rant, how does ME open up mixes, add bottom, increase the sound stage and add punch if they only have 2 track material?.......

I NEVER claimed that sending out via 2bus DA and back in would do anything to the sound outside of adding the color of the converter!

I totally 100% agree that there is a benefit to summing! Been there done that. It works! Was happy with the results!! I started off with 8 channels then added 16 more.

After fiddling with ITB mixing for so long and summing out channels it still wasnt enough! My analog collection started growing and soon realized that a SSL comp (2bus processor) on the 2bus was doing WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE for my sound then my 24 channels of summing. I purchased a Fatso and and pair of destressors shortly after purchased my dear old API 2500. All the while still taking the time to sum and trying to convience myself that summing was still worth it.

Conclusion was, the 2-5% bonus the summing offered was nothing compared to the 15-20% that my 2bus processing was doing. All I am arguing is bang for buck. Summing was great for me in my LE days becuase I was able to use outboard and then sum everything OTB and then record back onto a stereo channel. Well, today I am much more happy with a Hybrid setup. If I want to use a buss comp I just insert it just like I do with a plugin. If I want to use an eq, same thing or whatever. With every summing channel, there is one less hardware insert channel.

Originally Posted by Mixerman

Circular logic much?

Illacov nailed it with his response to you.

That said, I'd love for you to define "stereo processor" for me. That's a might bit vague.

Emperical Labs FATSO
SSL Bus Comp
API 2500
A Design Nail
Aurora Audio GTQ2
FMR RNC
Dangerous Music BAX

Of course there are many more but these are the ones that I own and can say will add way more to your sound than summing. Therefore if you do not have an analog inventory then, any of the above is money better spent. BTW, I still sum stems but I am actually mixing those stems. which brings me back to my beloved Venice. Which BTW, you can pick up for the price of said "summing" mixer.

Again, YMMV but to me unless you are buying something with some ass you are just waisting money that could be spent on stuff that really makes a difference.

[intervalkid]

An electro magnetic pulse would destroy every harddrive and tape. We'd better start pressing every unsummed track to record for safe keeping.

[intervalkid]

If an Electro Magnetic Burst hit the earth either from the sun or from an EMB weapon wouldn't all the tape and hardrives be erased? We had better start burning every track to records track by track (for summing later) and archiving them for safe keeping. It would be a rotten shame to lose all of the great music of the 20th century. Imagine if all of Miles Davis' music was gone forever! Jmes Brown, Buddy Guy Robert Johnson, Zeppelin, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Rachmanninof (personal recordings). It would be so awful I couldn't stand it.

Salt and Light
Adrian

[illacov]

Originally Posted by RonT

Notice he said if that were the case,......well, that is not what I was stating at all. It was not relavent to the arguement I was making. Wasn't trying to be negative but..... was soooooo not what I was explaining.



Ok, apparently there is some miscommunication, Before I go into my rant, how does ME open up mixes, add bottom, increase the sound stage and add punch if they only have 2 track material?.......

I NEVER claimed that sending out via 2bus DA and back in would do anything to the sound outside of adding the color of the converter!

I totally 100% agree that there is a benefit to summing! Been there done that. It works! Was happy with the results!! I started off with 8 channels then added 16 more.

After fiddling with ITB mixing for so long and summing out channels it still wasnt enough! My analog collection started growing and soon realized that a SSL comp (2bus processor) on the 2bus was doing WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE for my sound then my 24 channels of summing. I purchased a Fatso and and pair of destressors shortly after purchased my dear old API 2500. All the while still taking the time to sum and trying to convience myself that summing was still worth it.

Conclusion was, the 2-5% bonus the summing offered was nothing compared to the 15-20% that my 2bus processing was doing. All I am arguing is bang for buck. Summing was great for me in my LE days becuase I was able to use outboard and then sum everything OTB and then record back onto a stereo channel. Well, today I am much more happy with a Hybrid setup. If I want to use a buss comp I just insert it just like I do with a plugin. If I want to use an eq, same thing or whatever. With every summing channel, there is one less hardware insert channel.


Emperical Labs FATSO
SSL Bus Comp
API 2500
A Design Nail
Aurora Audio GTQ2
FMR RNC
Dangerous Music BAX

Of course there are many more but these are the ones that I own and can say will add way more to your sound than summing. Therefore if you do not have an analog inventory then, any of the above is money better spent. BTW, I still sum stems but I am actually mixing those stems. which brings me back to my beloved Venice. Which BTW, you can pick up for the price of said "summing" mixer.

Again, YMMV but to me unless you are buying something with some ass you are just waisting money that could be spent on stuff that really makes a difference.

Please direct me to a $100 Venice and you and I shall remain as brothers until I meet the Lord.

My gear collection doesn't come out of the Guitar Center catalog but trust me I have over 14 channels of outboard compression, 30 plus channels of preamps and line drivers, FX etc etc etc etc.

I know what analog outboard does.

Aside from routing and onboard eq, does the Venice give you a sound? I wouldn't call Venice boards color consoles by any means. You're enjoying the very thing you're denouncing my friend.

I can easily say ridiculous things like "ditch the Venice, its the outboard that you really need." See what I mean? You're speakin about how free you are but you're rockin' an orange jumpsuit too.

And like all things as they relate to women, sometimes a whole lotta ass is just that. If you're not careful you'll wind up with a situation that's just straight booty!

Peace
Illumination

[laser]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

That's all I have to say on that subject.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Well, we're very glad about that.

Since it's pure hypocritical bulls**t.

Honestly, Mixerman, I was behind you 100% on your audio arguments. But, after your ignorant little rant, I'm afraid I have to question your ability to look at anything objectively.

Why politics became a part of this discussion is beyond me.


Laser

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by RonT

All I am arguing is bang for buck.

Well here's your bang for the buck. PASSIVE SUMMING Network for ProTools HD 192 | eBay

99 bucks. At that price and ease of use you can easily answer these questions for yourselves. As for me I finally found a price point where I think external summing might be worthwhile. Heck, I'd pay that much just for a good placebo effect.

I got one of these cables, and sometimes I actually use it. No idea why anyone would want to pay any more for summing.

-R

[illacov]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Well here's your bang for the buck. PASSIVE SUMMING Network for ProTools HD 192 | eBay

99 bucks. At that price and ease of use you can easily answer these questions for yourselves. As for me I finally found a price point where I think external summing might be worthwhile. Heck, I'd pay that much just for a good placebo effect.

I got one of these cables, and sometimes I actually use it. No idea why anyone would want to pay any more for summing.

-R

Ah if only it twas a placebo Rick.

On a side note, hearkening back to my Philosophy Department days:

The danger of calling everything into doubt is that you may wind up looking like or being the village idiot.

Peace
Illumination

[RonT]

Originally Posted by illacov

Please direct me to a $100 Venice and you and I shall remain as brothers until I meet the Lord.

My gear collection doesn't come out of the Guitar Center catalog but trust me I have over 14 channels of outboard compression, 30 plus channels of preamps and line drivers, FX etc etc etc etc.

I know what analog outboard does.

Aside from routing and onboard eq, does the Venice give you a sound? I wouldn't call Venice boards color consoles by any means. You're enjoying the very thing you're denouncing my friend.

I can easily say ridiculous things like "ditch the Venice, its the outboard that you really need." See what I mean? You're speakin about how free you are but you're rockin' an orange jumpsuit too.

And like all things as they relate to women, sometimes a whole lotta ass is just that. If you're not careful you'll wind up with a situation that's just straight booty!

Peace
Illumination

1. I didn't think that the title of this thread "High End Summing Box" =$100 So for that, I will shut my mouth if that is your definition of a High End Summing Box then........ummmm.....ummmmm.....

2. Yes my Venice gives me a sound, actually a very very very wide range of sound all according on how I move the eq knobs. I use it for mixing stems that are already 90% theree when I want to go that extra step. Most of the time I let the ME do the rest. When I entered into this thread, my first advice was why not a small format console that offers more than just summing alone. My only argument is that summing alone offers little to actually processing.

3. It's great that you have collected a nice variety of outboard. This is the same exact thing I am suggesting. Get the outboard first becuase it will take you much farther than a summing mixer again "by itself". Again this is the only argument that I am making.

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Well here's your bang for the buck. PASSIVE SUMMING Network for ProTools HD 192 | eBay

99 bucks. At that price and ease of use you can easily answer these questions for yourselves. As for me I finally found a price point where I think external summing might be worthwhile. Heck, I'd pay that much just for a good placebo effect.

I got one of these cables, and sometimes I actually use it. No idea why anyone would want to pay any more for summing.

-R

[illacov]

Originally Posted by RonT

1. I didn't think that the title of this thread "High End Summing Box" =$100 So for that, I will shut my mouth if that is your definition of a High End Summing Box then........ummmm.....ummmmm.....

2. Yes my Venice gives me a sound, actually a very very very wide range of sound all according on how I move the eq knobs. I use it for mixing stems that are already 90% theree when I want to go that extra step. Most of the time I let the ME do the rest. When I entered into this thread, my first advice was why not a small format console that offers more than just summing alone. My only argument is that summing alone offers little to actually processing.

3. It's great that you have collected a nice variety of outboard. This is the same exact thing I am suggesting. Get the outboard first becuase it will take you much farther than a summing mixer again "by itself". Again this is the only argument that I am making.

Judging books by their covers? And buying with thine eyes instead of thine ears?

The beauty of these OLD AZZ designs aka passive summing mixers is they are SIMPLE. Should I build a summing mixer with $50 worth (if that) of resistors and wiring, put it in a box that lights up and then mark it up to $1000 just to satisfy the insecurities of consumers at large? And then as they say "it will sell."

Have you ever considered that these passive designs just as active ones do, have a system of diminishing returns? Copper is a good conductor, sure we could try silver wire but for real? Do we need to build these things with Takman and Mills resistors before people take them serious, even though they sound fabulous as they are? How bout $100 is all you really DO need to spend to get a passive summing network? With all faders at unity what is the self noise like on your console? I run 24 channels with my summing buss and my noise figures come in at -80 db all channels firing. I wish the highly lusted after vintage consoles of yore were this quiet.

I can mix with just plugins and the difference is there too if I'm stemmed out btw. Its not the gear alone. I choose the gear for tone and the summing buss for REAL headroom (bout 45db to be precise) and depth.

Peace
Illumination

[jordanvoth]

Still loving the Tonebuss, but now want to purchase a couple of pieces of outboard so I can print vocals through a sweet outboard comp (looking to try a Retro 176 or a Mohog 1176), maybe an EQ (Not sure what I'd like, love the 560 but don't want 500 series) or a reverb (if there's something good to be had). Brave new world. I'm also in the market for a 2 bus EQ but I have to do one thing at a time.

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by RonT

1. I didn't think that the title of this thread "High End Summing Box" =$100 So for that, I will shut my mouth if that is your definition of a High End Summing Box then........ummmm.....ummmmm.....

2. Yes my Venice gives me a sound, actually a very very very wide range of sound all according on how I move the eq knobs. I use it for mixing stems that are already 90% theree when I want to go that extra step. Most of the time I let the ME do the rest. When I entered into this thread, my first advice was why not a small format console that offers more than just summing alone. My only argument is that summing alone offers little to actually processing.

3. It's great that you have collected a nice variety of outboard. This is the same exact thing I am suggesting. Get the outboard first becuase it will take you much farther than a summing mixer again "by itself". Again this is the only argument that I am making.

I'm not totally convinced on the hardware over summing issue. I've never had a problem using the plugins over hardware and I'm happy with the plugs I'm using. I definitely agree that a small, high end console with recall and automation would be the ultimate setup. I just can't see using a few select pieces of outboard on an itb mix giving me the same soundstage that adding in the analog domain can. I know it DEFINITELY can for others. There are some amazing engineers who can get a slammin' mix happening with nothing but a DAW and some plugs but for me and my workflow and budget this is definitely the way to go.

[illacov]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Still loving the Tonebuss, but now want to purchase a couple of pieces of outboard so I can print vocals through a sweet outboard comp (looking to try a Retro 176 or a Mohog 1176), maybe an EQ (Not sure what I'd like, love the 560 but don't want 500 series) or a reverb (if there's something good to be had). Brave new world. I'm also in the market for a 2 bus EQ but I have to do one thing at a time.

I definitely agree regarding a few choice pieces of outboard.

To get around the whole post fader compression thing (even though that can work for certain things) I print thru all of my hardware when I'm prepping the mix to stem it out thru the summing buss and my 2 buss Opto Compressor.

You're definitely committing to the sound when you print (to a degree) but I chose these pieces because they have sounds I like committing to

Choose along those lines and you'll be happy with your purchases.

Peace
Illumination

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by illacov

Ah if only it twas a placebo Rick.

On a side note, hearkening back to my Philosophy Department days:

The danger of calling everything into doubt is that you may wind up looking like or being the village idiot.

Peace
Illumination

Or Socrates.

I meant the placebo comment lightly. I clearly hear what the summing network is doing. It sounds different depending on which preamps I use for makeup gain and which converters I output to it. For now I must like it because I'm actually using it. OTOH, in my catalog I have quite a few ITB mixes that I'm 100% satisfied with.

The real point I want to make is that for a hundred bucks people can answer these questions for themselves, without having to engage in acerbic arguments with self appointed internet experts.

-R

[illacov]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Or Socrates.

I meant the placebo comment lightly. I clearly hear what the summing network is doing. It sounds different depending on which preamps I use for makeup gain and which converters I output to it. For now I must like it because I'm actually using it. OTOH, in my catalog I have quite a few ITB mixes that I'm 100% satisfied with.

The real point I want to make is that for a hundred bucks people can answer these questions for themselves, without having to engage in acerbic arguments with self appointed internet experts.

-R

Exactly.

The real question is do we drink Hemlock if we piss off the wrong people with our $100 summing mixers and high end pres? LOL

Peace
Illumination

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by illacov

I definitely agree regarding a few choice pieces of outboard.

To get around the whole post fader compression thing (even though that can work for certain things) I print thru all of my hardware when I'm prepping the mix to stem it out thru the summing buss and my 2 buss Opto Compressor.

You're definitely committing to the sound when you print (to a degree) but I chose these pieces because they have sounds I like committing to

Choose along those lines and you'll be happy with your purchases.

Peace
Illumination

I really don't have a whole lot to speak of, I was going to start a thread asking about it but I'd rather just read a bit more. I won't be doing this for a while. Some things I know I like and want and others I'm not totally sure what I'd prefer.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by RonT

1. I didn't think that the title of this thread "High End Summing Box" =$100 So for that, I will shut my mouth if that is your definition of a High End Summing Box then........ummmm.....ummmmm.....

What would make another summing box better? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one approach to summing, used in certain expensive, vintage and high end consoles, to use a resistor network to blend the tracks appropriately, then use an amplifier for makeup gain? That's the principle behind the Folcrom. So this other guy has decided to forgo the box and necessary extra cabling and just put the resistors in the cable itself. Fifty bucks worth of parts and an hour's work. Then you stick your high end preamps or a LEVR on the end for makeup gain.

The biggest thing for me is that it's invisible and efficient. I have 8 dedicated channels on my converter that one end (D-sub) plugs into, and the other end of the cable is two XLRs that go right into my preamps of choice. If I wanted to patch analog gear in before the network (which I don't), I'd simply plug it into my D-sub patch bay.

-R

[Mixerman]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

What would make another summing box better? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one approach to summing, used in certain expensive, vintage and high end consoles, to use a resistor network to blend the tracks appropriately, then use an amplifier for makeup gain? That's the principle behind the Folcrom. So this other guy has decided to forgo the box and necessary extra cabling and just put the resistors in the cable itself. Fifty bucks worth of parts and an hour's work. Then you stick your high end preamps or a LEVR on the end for makeup gain.

The biggest thing for me is that it's invisible and efficient. I have 8 dedicated channels on my converter that one end (D-sub) plugs into, and the other end of the cable is two XLRs that go right into my preamps of choice. If I wanted to patch analog gear in before the network (which I don't), I'd simply plug it into my D-sub patch bay.

-R

Again, I invite you and your "buddy" to come down to my house, and I'll demonstrate for you what analog summing does. You ignored my invitation earlier in this thread.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

[Mixerman]

Originally Posted by RonT

Notice he said if that were the case,......well, that is not what I was stating at all. It was not relavent to the arguement I was making. Wasn't trying to be negative but..... was soooooo not what I was explaining.



Ok, apparently there is some miscommunication, Before I go into my rant, how does ME open up mixes, add bottom, increase the sound stage and add punch if they only have 2 track material?.......

I NEVER claimed that sending out via 2bus DA and back in would do anything to the sound outside of adding the color of the converter!

I totally 100% agree that there is a benefit to summing! Been there done that. It works! Was happy with the results!! I started off with 8 channels then added 16 more.

After fiddling with ITB mixing for so long and summing out channels it still wasnt enough! My analog collection started growing and soon realized that a SSL comp (2bus processor) on the 2bus was doing WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE for my sound then my 24 channels of summing.

Bunk.

From my book Zen and the Art of Mixing (for purposes of brevity and time):

Originally Posted by Mixerman

Start by installing a summing box into your system. Run the analog outputs from your converters to the inputs of your summing box. By running all of your audio through the first two inputs of the summing box, you remove the sonic nature of the summing box itself as a variable when making your comparison. Mix a song in your DAW by digitally summing through outputs 1 and 2. Make your way through discovery, and frame a decent static mix. Go beyond the point where the mix is singing and you feel good about it, just to the point where you’re beginning to struggle with the mix.

Now switch your channel outputs so that you’re using all the channels of the summing box instead of just the first two. This switchover takes a few minutes, since you have to select new outputs for every channel. If you have a good summing box (and the only one I can vouch for is the Dangerous 2-Bus), you should notice a greater depth of field, considerably more clarity in the bottom end, a seemingly broader frequency range, and more overall punch. The difference should be night and day, and you should immediately find yourself struggling less with the mix.

Don’t be put off by the changes in your mix. If there were no changes, it would be a useless and superfluous box. The whole reason for making the switch at the struggle point of your mix is that it’s not going to cost you time. In fact, the mix should improve so much where impact is concerned that you’ll likely find it considerably easier to mix.

If the SSL G384 is strapped on the 2-bus when only using two channels on a summing box, and then it's still strapped on the 2-bus when the switch to multiple channels of summing are performed, then according to your argument, there should be little-to-no audible difference. Yet there is an enormous difference. The stereo field expands left and right, up and down, and forward to back. There's more width, deeper lows, more depth, and more clarity between the instruments.

You can say there's no difference all you want, but it's such an obvious difference when performed in the manner laid out above that anyone can hear it, so long as you have accurate monitoring (which includes the room) and so long as you perform the switch at the right time in the mixing process.

Keep in mind here, you're arguing that you can't hear something that is quite obvious and in public no less. I always find that argument fascinating.

Originally Posted by laser

Well, we're very glad about that.

Since it's pure hypocritical bulls**t.

Honestly, Mixerman, I was behind you 100% on your audio arguments. But, after your ignorant little rant, I'm afraid I have to question your ability to look at anything objectively.

Why politics became a part of this discussion is beyond me.


Laser

Yes, I can see how my thoughts on politics in relation to the media would diminish my thoughts regarding audio. That's very smart!

I can live with people like you ignoring me for the rest of my life. No worries.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

PS: We're recording a Mixerman Radio Show this weekend, so if any of you have a question you'd like to submit, visit my Mixerman FB page. Enjoy!

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by illacov

Exactly.

The real question is do we drink Hemlock if we piss off the wrong people with our $100 summing mixers and high end pres? LOL

Peace
Illumination

Not my own drink of choice, but I'd be happy to buy a round

-R

[rhythminmind]

Some of my comparisons/thoughts on this ordeal. Summing | 1313

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by rhythminmind

Some of my comparisons/thoughts on this ordeal. Summing | 1313

This may be the case but not all summing boxes are using passive "clean" designs. I didn't research the really pricey Chandler and Manley boxes but I can tell you that mine has transformers both on the ins and outs and I'd be willing to bet that this would (hopefully) be the case with the really expensive ones as well, which does come into play with the stereo imaging and depth of the soundstage. Maybe someone with more knowledgable in electronics and expand on this for me as I can only attest to what I'm hearing as opposed to what the guts inside some of these summing boxes are doing.