mic/pre 4 IN YOUR FACE modern pop female vocalz

[SATANUS]

i am deciding on a new mic and pre for recording a female modern pop singer
think
britney spears
christina aguilera
that in your face (but still soft and sexy) sound
im guessing theres some sort of compression and vocal stacking going on there
and of course other processing done in the mix
but i need the beginning of the chain
a good mic for this
and a good pre for this
im leaning toward a condenser, one with low noise and high sensitivity
and transparant pre, that packs a punch
any ideas?

[BradLyons]

Originally Posted by SATANUS

i am deciding on a new mic and pre for recording a female modern pop singer
think
britney spears
christina aguilera
that in your face (but still soft and sexy) sound
im guessing theres some sort of compression and vocal stacking going on there
and of course other processing done in the mix
but i need the beginning of the chain
a good mic for this
and a good pre for this
im leaning toward a condenser, one with low noise and high sensitivity
and transparant pre, that packs a punch
any ideas?

What are you currently using and what don't you like about it? Also, what kind of budget are you willing to spend (if needed) to make this a reality for you?

[SATANUS]

i am currently using (bear with me here)
a mxl r77 ribbon mic, going into my tascam recorder, using the on board tascam phantom power and a fethead to power the mic, i know a tascam is not the best, but i can work my magic, to do its best, i can actually make the r77 sound alright in combination with some other mics i have like a sm57 and doing lots of processing afterwards, but it just doesnt break that threshold of "radio ready sound" if you know what i mean, but overall, i just cant get that very crisp, clear, upfront sound, that sounds very "digital" i dont know if thats the right term but im not looking for a vintage sound for this or anything like that, i want that typical modern pop sound, and what im using now is kind of keeping the vocals , not behind the music or behind the mix, but kind if keeping them on the same level, and i need them to be more present, as with a female pop singer
i can probably spend around 1000 on a pre and maybe up to a 1000 on a mic but the lower the better, as i need this asap, thanks

[abechap024]

Hmmm. There is a LOT that goes into the "sound" of the vocal...but a good preamp is a good place to start. (actually the 3rd best place to start after, Talent and mic)

But hey. you say you have a grand

Get an API pre

I will highly doubt if you ever feel your preamp is holding you back. Great for "in your face" type stuff. Adds some nice harmonics that does a bit of thickening in the lows and "presence" in the highs. Almost like EQ but not.


Oh now you have me excited!! I just read you have another grand for a mic.

Get a Tube condenser microphone. Then paired with an API preamp. Mmm my personal favorite. Maybe like a Mohjave audio tube mic, or an old Sony C37a (in good condition of course!)

Tube into an API is yummy.

[BradLyons]

The MIC and PRE are important, but so is the converter. I want to be direct in that while upgrading to a professional pre-amp is going to make a huge difference, you still are going to be limited to the converter of the Tascam recorder---which I'm guessing is the 788? Based on what you said you say you have $1,000 for the pre and maybe up to $1,000 for the mic...don't budget this way, think $2,000 total for what you need if you have to. The other thing to keep in mind is that this is a total upgrade, if it's something that you can't get what you need/want at the same time don't compromise the immediate short-term for the long term gain because if you do...you'll waste your money and regret it later.

With that said, and taking the converter out of the equation here, what's the best way to go? Well---the microphone you have isn't a bad mic at all, but that is something to address IMHO. Everything starts at the microphone, that's the first point of impact. Personally I'm not much of a fan of ribbons for vocals, of course many do it but as an engineer---I'm not usually a fan. Based on the information provided that you're looking for a NON DIGITAL sound and for a female pop singer I'm going to recommend a possible upgrade of the following:

(1) BLUE MICROPHONES: BLUEBERRY
(1) UNIVERSAL AUDIO SOLO 610

The BLUEBERRY is an incredible microphone that is quite affordable at under $1,000 but performs as if it's a much higher price point. Although I work heavily out in the field, my office is based inside the Guitar Center store in Atlanta where there's an incredible amount of foot traffic from professional recording artists, athletes, engineers, major studios, etc. Without going into it one of my clients had been using a far more expensive microphone for his female lead singer and liked the results, but I kept telling him to upgrade to this microphone----of course being that this mic was several hundred dollars less than his other mic he couldn't see it as being an upgrade, but after a few months he finally broke down and took my advice to at least try it. Needless to say he was stunned at the difference and wanted a second one. What I like about the Blueberry is the clarity and depth of the sound. It will pick up every nuance of the voice while also coloring it just a little bit on the bottom-end. The top end is so clear, but not sterile---it's just a smooth-sounding microphone that packs a serious performance for the money.

The reason I'm suggesting the LA610 is one issue with your Tascam recorders is that it's sterile, no life to the sound----this micpre will completely change the tone and character of the sound by saturating the voice and giving you the same sound level of pre that many professionals are using. The combination of both compliment each other exceptionally well and is an upgrade that is an upgrade regardless of what recorder you're using, but for your situation will significantly improve the front-end IMHO while keeping the price reasonable.

[Fieldstone]

Originally Posted by BradLyons

The reason I'm suggesting the LA610 is one issue with your Tascam recorders is that it's sterile, no life to the sound----this micpre will completely change the tone and character of the sound by saturating the voice and giving you the same sound level of pre that many professionals are using. The combination of both compliment each other exceptionally well and is an upgrade that is an upgrade regardless of what recorder you're using, but for your situation will significantly improve the front-end IMHO while keeping the price reasonable.

Brad, how would you compare the converter life/lifelessness of the Tascam compared to something like a Motu 8pre or 896/828 setup?

[jgimbel]

Originally Posted by abechap024

Tube into an API is yummy.

That is very nice to know! I've got an AA CM-47 on its way (first tube mic, I'm a large diaphragm dynamic guy), and I have a custom-built API 312 clone. That's been great on so many things, doing exactly what you saying, subtly thickening the lows and adding presence, like EQ but not - perfect description! And I've been anxious to hear if that would be a good thing for a tube mic or not. Of course it depends on the tube mic, but still, encouraging to see that!

[Chris Lago]

Manley Ref C into Neve 1073 Into Cl1b, done.

Katy Perry
Britney Spears
Kesha

Have used that chain.

[jcc449]

Telefunken ELAM 251 - 1073 neve - tubetech CL1B = biggest in your face blow ever. if not you can come back and kick my butt.

[carloff]

AKG C12, E251 or Sony C800 or clone , anything what is quality premap ...
compress with good plugin ..done--
no more myths

[SATANUS]

i notice that most of the choices are large diaphragm tube mics for a mic choice? and i've seen that elsewhere, expecially the sony c800g for modern female pop vox, but they are all hovering in the above 2000 range, is there any i should consider in the 1000 range? or does the quality get less?

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by SATANUS

i notice that most of the choices are large diaphragm tube mics for a mic choice? and i've seen that elsewhere, expecially the sony c800g for modern female pop vox, but they are all hovering in the above 2000 range, is there any i should consider in the 1000 range? or does the quality get less?

I've been cutting female vocals of a dynamic and authoritative nature, overdubbing many different layers; and I am using a BOCK AUDIO 195 with the project. The projects are somewhat experimental, so there is a lot of different vocal voicing's, and textures to the arrangements, so it all varies greatly, but for me this microphone couples really well with her. And I think the mic will go a long way further than just vocals. I use it for GTR, Drums, Bass Cab's [etc/etc] It has a great balance but extremely helpful presence/crispness which helps things sail out front and focus but it doesn't feel edgy or shrill with high range, powerful voices. [sorry this is not a tube mic]

[SATANUS]

so if i was to say i wanted a sony c800g for a mic
a neve 1073 for a pre
and a tubetech cl1b for comp
but each one of those is around 2 or 3 grand separatley
is there ANY suggestions as to a
clone sony c800g <1000
clone neve 1073 <1000
cl1b <1000
i only have about 2 grand to spend on all this
should i compromise?
how about the great river? , or modded golden age 73 with carnhill output/inputs, or somethin else?
and a cheaper tube condenser?
somethin in the 1000 range
i also am not sure how i would use an offboard comp with my tascam in the mix, im guessing i could send a signal from my master output to the comp, then back into a fresh track on my recorder

[natpub]

Originally Posted by SATANUS

so if i was to say i wanted a sony c800g for a mic
a neve 1073 for a pre
and a tubetech cl1b for comp
but each one of those is around 2 or 3 grand separatley
is there ANY suggestions as to a
clone sony c800g <1000
clone neve 1073 <1000
cl1b <1000
i only have about 2 grand to spend on all this
and a cheaper tube condenser?
somethin in the 1000 range

if you can get to the 3k ballpark:

UM17 Microphone

AND

High Profile Audio | Aurora Audio GTQC Channel Strip | 401-316-6423

~OR~

Neve 1073LB 500 Series Mic Pre | VintageKing.com
Elysia Xpressor 500 Discrete Class A Stereo Compressor for 500 Series Format | VintageKing.com

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by SATANUS

so if i was to say i wanted a sony c800g for a mic
a neve 1073 for a pre
and a tubetech cl1b for comp
but each one of those is around 2 or 3 grand separatley
is there ANY suggestions as to a
clone sony c800g <1000
clone neve 1073 <1000
cl1b <1000
i only have about 2 grand to spend on all this
should i compromise?
how about the great river? , or modded golden age 73 with carnhill output/inputs, or somethin else?
and a cheaper tube condenser?
somethin in the 1000 range
i also am not sure how i would use an offboard comp with my tascam in the mix, im guessing i could send a signal from my master output to the comp, then back into a fresh track on my recorder

If you want the expensive gear, no other gear will be a replacement for cheap, that's the hard truth.

[Todd]

I noticed somebody suggesting a 500 series pre, but i believe the OP
would need to already have a lunchbox for that.

Can you run a 500 series pre without a lunchbox? Hmm, i dont know, maybe you can.

For under 2 grand, you could do the BAE 1073mp or mpf, and an AT 4050.
That would get you close to the nieghborhood you're looking at.
I use that chain for female vox, and its very good.
And you'd then have an extra BAE power supply for any future upgrades, plus a few bucks left over for some nice cables, etc..

It would be nice to have a nice comp in there, but you can only do so much for under 2 thousand. I get things done with no comp, so its possible.

Best of luck.
TK

[Chris Lago]

Hey, just want to specify that the 4050 is nowhere close to the sound of the c800g or manley ref C.

[SATANUS]

what about the peluso vtb?

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Hey, just want to specify that the 4050 is nowhere close to the sound of the c800g or manley ref C.

Sorry, i thought that was obvious just by price point.

He's looking under 2 grand for everything, so an 8000.00 dollar mic is probably over budget. Ya think? He doesnt have decent ADDA yet either. So i think any talk of Sony or Manley is a bit off the topic.

For the price, i think the 4050/1073 combo is very good.
With a great singer in a
nice room, with a good engineer would certainly get you sound
comparable to major label recordings like the ones mentioned.

TK

[Jim Williams]

Don't forget the auto tune.

[madehumble]

Originally Posted by BradLyons

The MIC and PRE are important, but so is the converter. I want to be direct in that while upgrading to a professional pre-amp is going to make a huge difference, you still are going to be limited to the converter of the Tascam recorder---which I'm guessing is the 788? Based on what you said you say you have $1,000 for the pre and maybe up to $1,000 for the mic...don't budget this way, think $2,000 total for what you need if you have to. The other thing to keep in mind is that this is a total upgrade, if it's something that you can't get what you need/want at the same time don't compromise the immediate short-term for the long term gain because if you do...you'll waste your money and regret it later.

With that said, and taking the converter out of the equation here, what's the best way to go? Well---the microphone you have isn't a bad mic at all, but that is something to address IMHO. Everything starts at the microphone, that's the first point of impact. Personally I'm not much of a fan of ribbons for vocals, of course many do it but as an engineer---I'm not usually a fan. Based on the information provided that you're looking for a NON DIGITAL sound and for a female pop singer I'm going to recommend a possible upgrade of the following:

(1) BLUE MICROPHONES: BLUEBERRY
(1) UNIVERSAL AUDIO SOLO 610

The BLUEBERRY is an incredible microphone that is quite affordable at under $1,000 but performs as if it's a much higher price point. Although I work heavily out in the field, my office is based inside the Guitar Center store in Atlanta where there's an incredible amount of foot traffic from professional recording artists, athletes, engineers, major studios, etc. Without going into it one of my clients had been using a far more expensive microphone for his female lead singer and liked the results, but I kept telling him to upgrade to this microphone----of course being that this mic was several hundred dollars less than his other mic he couldn't see it as being an upgrade, but after a few months he finally broke down and took my advice to at least try it. Needless to say he was stunned at the difference and wanted a second one. What I like about the Blueberry is the clarity and depth of the sound. It will pick up every nuance of the voice while also coloring it just a little bit on the bottom-end. The top end is so clear, but not sterile---it's just a smooth-sounding microphone that packs a serious performance for the money.

The reason I'm suggesting the LA610 is one issue with your Tascam recorders is that it's sterile, no life to the sound----this micpre will completely change the tone and character of the sound by saturating the voice and giving you the same sound level of pre that many professionals are using. The combination of both compliment each other exceptionally well and is an upgrade that is an upgrade regardless of what recorder you're using, but for your situation will significantly improve the front-end IMHO while keeping the price reasonable.

People still don't believe me about the Blueberry, it's a great mic if used right. And I own a Manley Ref C, so I'm not bias.

[Audio Child]

Originally Posted by Chris Lago

Hey, just want to specify that the 4050 is nowhere close to the sound of the c800g or manley ref C.

Hits can be made on a At4050 heck if Mr Ken Lewis can record hits through his digidesign 002 then that says it all!

Stop screaming all this hype gear that even you aint got but dream about!

[dickiefunk]

One of my favorite mics I've tried so far is the Audio Technica AT4040.

[Sm58]

mic:
-sm7
-used beyer 160

pre:
bae 1073 mpf

should be under 2k.

[lord_bunny]

lately it's been a c21vr into either a tube aphex1100 or a great river mp4h (large transformer, transparent sound). from there any combo of C4, LA2A, decapiator, pultec or neve style eq to work with it ITB.

i keep thinking about a goot OTB compressor, but then i think about all the song writing I could do if i saved my pennies for some free time away from the studio.

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by Audio Child

Hits can be made on a At4050 heck if Mr Ken Lewis can record hits through his digidesign 002 then that says it all!

Stop screaming all this hype gear that even you aint got but dream about!

I actually have recorded alot of stuff thats appeared on major label records thru my 002. BUT, everybody who quotes this just loves to take it out of context. i have 2 rooms and 3 rigs. the 002 is my 3rd rig, occasionally (not lately) i have recorded pieces of projects i've been working on thru my 3rd rig on the 002. Absolute fact. But alot of the people quoting it tend to imply that i'm doing the MAIN part of my recording and or mixing thru the 002, which has never been the case.

Sometimes i want / need a great interface, convertors, recording chain, etc... sometimes i just wanna make sure that my idea gets captured, that my workflow stays moving and if there's a 002 in front of me or an apogee, or whatever, then thats what i use. Its not like i would record Mary J thru a 002 if there was any other better choice, but if i had to, sure i would. The 002 is not a pro level box and is not designed to be, but you can still do excellent work with it. it doesnt at all stack up to HD. Just like the 4050 does not at all stack up to a C800G, but if thats what i had to record a vocal and the C800G wasnt here, i wouldnt cancel the session!!!

[Tony_Variations]

I usually get great results using an sE Gemini II through a UA solo 610 - the hyped top end with the added harmonic content is something I like to play around with. You can get a punchy sound with the right plugin compressor (I like the waves Kramer pie, or an SSL bus comp), but that valve crunch I like to keep in my chain.
If you get the mic second hand, you might even save some money...

[Audio Child]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

I actually have recorded alot of stuff thats appeared on major label records thru my 002. BUT, everybody who quotes this just loves to take it out of context. i have 2 rooms and 3 rigs. the 002 is my 3rd rig, occasionally (not lately) i have recorded pieces of projects i've been working on thru my 3rd rig on the 002. Absolute fact. But alot of the people quoting it tend to imply that i'm doing the MAIN part of my recording and or mixing thru the 002, which has never been the case.

Sometimes i want / need a great interface, convertors, recording chain, etc... sometimes i just wanna make sure that my idea gets captured, that my workflow stays moving and if there's a 002 in front of me or an apogee, or whatever, then thats what i use. Its not like i would record Mary J thru a 002 if there was any other better choice, but if i had to, sure i would. The 002 is not a pro level box and is not designed to be, but you can still do excellent work with it. it doesnt at all stack up to HD. Just like the 4050 does not at all stack up to a C800G, but if thats what i had to record a vocal and the C800G wasnt here, i wouldnt cancel the session!!!

I know that you have much better gear but its a good example to get across for snobs who think you need a 10k vocal chain all the time!

Some people seem to think that if it ain't a neve or u47 sounding they wont get a quality recording! It may sound classier but the listeners won't care for that subject!

[legato]

Spend it all on the best mic you can get.

Thank me later.


Henk

[legato]

And then we can talk about pres. For now, I'd rent or borrow one if need be.

Back to mics. I personally kinda like the Brauner Valvet X.


Well OK then, here's a clone alternative. JJ Audio has the Dutch in either 251 or C12 configuration. And there's the Akita (C800).
There could be a waiting time, though, and it will likely not hold its market value like a mic from a well-known brand would.


Henk