Does the LA3 make a good buss mixer?

SongJohn · 22nd July 2011

I'm looking to use a stereo configuration of two LA3As or two DBX 160s to use as a buss compressor. I'll be using a Tascam M15 mixer from the late '70s and an 80-8 also from about 1977. For outboard gear I use vintage '70s tape echos and other stuff, so you can see I'm pretty set on the sound of the '60s and '70s in a very authentic way. I even have a reel of early 70's 1/2" audio tape (203) that sounds completely different from any ol' reel of newish 456 I've had. I consider this tape to be my "secret weapon" with regards to faithfully reproducing that old bizzare sound.

But now, after obtaining wonderful sounds, I realize the a good limiter to run the show through in stereo is in need. I tend to read about people using old compressors on drums, or on vocals....
but I need compressors I can use on on the entire mix, L and R, like they would have in the '70s.

Would two DBX 160s work for this? I've read they make poor buss mixers...but I'd like to hear from more folks. How about the Ashly SC-50? I'm curious to read the thoughts of others. Thank you,
John

tekis · 22nd July 2011

Any of those units would "work." I've never used the Ashely. I've used LA3's and LA2's on mixes before and even 160's/162's, but I've just found that I like those particular models on individual instruments rather than the stereo buss. I like to use compressors that are more or less designed for program compression ie certain stereo compressors. At the end of the day, I can pretty much get anything to achieve the desired effect.

Telefunk · 22nd July 2011

I've used LA2a on some acoustic string stuff, classical movie score. It was truly beautiful.

But on some more rhythmical stuff LA3a might be too slow. But 1176 can work.Try it. Try to get yourself the 1778 or just two 1176's, you can use them as dual mono, it's good.

Songhead · 22nd July 2011

A pair of LA-3's can be just the thing... or not. I would say for that 70's sound, a pair of 2A's or 3A's is a nice starting point. I know of a mastering engineer from the 70's & 80's who used Pultec's into LA-3A's, that was pretty much his signature sound.

Jim Williams · 22nd July 2011

Combined with an M-15 it will be dark. If you find yourself pushing up the top boost EQ in more than a couple of tracks, that's telling you something.

skythemusic · 22nd July 2011

I love LA3A's but I would consider them a little too slow for mix bus duty. The 1178's were supposedly "designed" for that duty but I haven't used those in a long time. I used to have an Ashly SC-55, the stereo version of the 50. I did use that on the 2 bus regularly and it was ok. A bit of a tone sucker in my opinion but it did have a fairly glassy sheen. I liked it better on 2 bus than guitars which most seem to prefer them for. I currently have a DBX 165a that I love for parallel. I haven't tried it on the 2 bus as I only have one. I'm considering the Charter Oak comp and the Overstayer vca for 2 bus processing. I'm currently using the Hammer eq on 2 bus.

SongJohn · 24th July 2011

Too slow for mix buss duty?? REALLY?? That's so sad!!

I love the sound of this piece! But I've only heard stereo drums run through...can't say I've heard an entire mix run through it. ...

By the way, thanks for all the replies....you guys are awesome!!!!

The thing that frightens me is this 1178 thing. It's entirely perfect ...and I'm glad someone mentioned it. However, this piece is not transistor based. Well, it is, but the transistors are placed in opamps, small miniaturized amplifiers that to me sound much different from the silicon transister-type amp.

So with this in mind, do you think the 1178 will still produce comperable results to LA3....or is it poor/ not strong enough in comparison?

SongJohn · 24th July 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Combined with an M-15 it will be dark. If you find yourself pushing up the top boost EQ in more than a couple of tracks, that's telling you something.

Interesting. I guess the M15 is a little dark, come to think of it. Come to think of it, a lot of late '70s disco mixes sound fairly dark. I had a problem giving the bass drum a seperate space from the bass guitar. To avoid this, you can try to put up the midrange on the bass amp and almost kill the bass (assuming you mic the bass with 15s).
I got this idea after listening to moe whittmore's 700west recordings from 1972-1979. If you listen, you realize the bass has a lot more mids coming through which helps because it is very easy to lose the bass. Listen -from 1976 recorded to a 70-8 Teac 1/2" machine:

******//700west.com/audio/Mo_FirstAlb...ss_country.mp3

SongJohn · 24th July 2011

An even better example from '76......

******//700west.com/audio/Mo_FirstAlb...atulations.mp3

Listen to that home made echo plate!!

Slipperman · 24th July 2011

No.

Sounds like rubbish in that role.

Find something else.

SM.

SongJohn · 24th July 2011

Very informative post. Thanks slipperman.

Slipperman · 24th July 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJohn

Very informative post. Thanks slipperman.

See... I thought I was doing everyone a favor by making brevity my hallmark.

LMFBO.

Ahh me. The hilarity never ends here on GS.

SM.

jonathan jetter · 25th July 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongJohn

Very informative post. Thanks slipperman.

an opinion that strong,

from somone w/ slippy's history,

should carry some weight.

and FWIW i agree. have only tried them a couple times on the 2-bus. did not like. have tried 1176 pairs a couple times, did not like.

have enjoyed and made use of SSL and all the attendant clones, Manley Vari Mu, a pair of Daking FETs, API 2500, and a few others.

Space Station · 25th July 2011

Does the LA3A make a good mix bus compressor? In my opinion no. Guitar bus..great. Bass..fantastic. Drums bus..OK..I like what it does to cymbals when you drive the input hard..sort of a nice crispy tone.

Dean Roddey · 25th July 2011

The LA-3A is much faster than the LA-2A, the latter being about 10ms and the former being 1.5ms or less. Not saying that makes it a good master bus comp, but it's faster than other things that are commonly put forward for that sort of thing, e.g. the Drawmer 1968, which is 2ms at its fastest setting. And obviously they both have the opto thing of variable release depending on how hard you hit it, which might not necessarily be great for mix bus, I dunno.

Space Station · 25th July 2011

Its faster on large transients..but about the same as an LA3A on small transients.

jmikeperkins · 25th July 2011

I have a pair of vintage dbx 160 VU compressors and I just love them, but generally speaking, I think they have too much coloration to make good 2 buss mix compressors. They will pump a bit (in a late 70's good way) when pushed and while that might be just what you want with an electric guitar or a rock vocal, I think it would be a little much on a whole mix. I would think the same thing would be true with of an 1176. I don't have an LA-3A so I can't comment on those specifically. But what I do have, which makes an excellent mix bus compressor, is the 2 channel Anthony Demaria CL-1500 which is his take on an LA-2A. Anthony designed that unit to also work as a 2 channel mix buss compressor and it does a great job at that. The 2 channels can also be linked by a switch on the front. If you are looking for a T4 based optical compressor (like an LA-2A, LA-3A) for a mix buss, you should look at the CL-1500.

mappee · 25th July 2011

la3a's as someone said above are better used on single channels.

The dbx 160s is really good on the master buss. I'm talking of the newer blue units not the black vintage ones. It is on the cleaner side of things and I say use the auto mode and only compress lightly .5 to 3db. If you want more color add some pultecs in the chain.
160s is good enough for mastering house useage and very accurate.
Make sure it's in good working order as dbx messed up with the voltages although they won't own up to it. The original s model was replaced with the sl very quickly but then they started to have trouble with the voltage supplying their proprietary modules. They may have fixed the problem but my unit has not been repaired and sits like as testament to dbx's error.
You would think they'd rather fix it than have me tell clients dbx flagship compressor is not useable? ?? ???

SongJohn · 25th July 2011

I've read every post here and appreciate kindly all of the informative replies. In the end, I feel like words fall short. I can't tell if what person A hates is what person B might like.

I feel like I'd want to try using the 162 first. I have a feeling that it would work for my sound. These are the current sounds I'm getting from my 80-8 at the moment:

******//www.songjohn.com/resources/Ja...G_Old_Tape.mp3

******//www.songjohn.com/resources/bluejam.mp3

The point I'm trying to make is that clarity, accuracy and other such things is not going to help me in my desire to make messed up sounding recordings. I want the thing to sound colored, choked, squeezed, maimed, etc. The 162 seems fair, no? No one seems to have any coherent sound samples of one, and as you can hear from my mixes, they certainly have their own sound that I doubt anyone will have an example of in conjuction with a certain compressor. The tape sound I get is very very dirty.

Tube World · 9th February 2012

I think for a 2 bus the LA3-A may not be the best thing, however at the mastering stage, it behaves very similar to some optic hardware compressors used at this stage. I don't have the hardware but I have started using the Waves LA3-A at the mastering stage. It is a very nice transparent optic compressor that just controls the transients without affecting the overall sound of the mix.

Give it a try and tell me what you think?

22nd July 2011	#1
SongJohn Gear Head Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 44 Thread Starter	Does the LA3 make a good buss mixer? I'm looking to use a stereo configuration of two LA3As or two DBX 160s to use as a buss compressor. I'll be using a Tascam M15 mixer from the late '70s and an 80-8 also from about 1977. For outboard gear I use vintage '70s tape echos and other stuff, so you can see I'm pretty set on the sound of the '60s and '70s in a very authentic way. I even have a reel of early 70's 1/2" audio tape (203) that sounds completely different from any ol' reel of newish 456 I've had. I consider this tape to be my "secret weapon" with regards to faithfully reproducing that old bizzare sound. But now, after obtaining wonderful sounds, I realize the a good limiter to run the show through in stereo is in need. I tend to read about people using old compressors on drums, or on vocals.... but I need compressors I can use on on the entire mix, L and R, like they would have in the '70s. Would two DBX 160s work for this? I've read they make poor buss mixers...but I'd like to hear from more folks. How about the Ashly SC-50? I'm curious to read the thoughts of others. Thank you, John

22nd July 2011	#2
tekis Gear maniac Joined: Feb 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 284	Any of those units would "work." I've never used the Ashely. I've used LA3's and LA2's on mixes before and even 160's/162's, but I've just found that I like those particular models on individual instruments rather than the stereo buss. I like to use compressors that are more or less designed for program compression ie certain stereo compressors. At the end of the day, I can pretty much get anything to achieve the desired effect. __________________ Some credits... http://www.allmusic.com/artist/john-...s/date-asc/100

22nd July 2011	#4
Songhead Gear addict Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 353	A pair of LA-3's can be just the thing... or not. I would say for that 70's sound, a pair of 2A's or 3A's is a nice starting point. I know of a mastering engineer from the 70's & 80's who used Pultec's into LA-3A's, that was pretty much his signature sound. __________________ John Songdahl Professional Audio Design

25th July 2011	#15
Dean Roddey Gear Guru Joined: May 2008 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,331 2 Reviews written	The LA-3A is much faster than the LA-2A, the latter being about 10ms and the former being 1.5ms or less. Not saying that makes it a good master bus comp, but it's faster than other things that are commonly put forward for that sort of thing, e.g. the Drawmer 1968, which is 2ms at its fastest setting. And obviously they both have the opto thing of variable release depending on how hard you hit it, which might not necessarily be great for mix bus, I dunno. __________________ Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd www.charmedquark.com Be a control freak!

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22nd July 2011	#3
Telefunk Lives for gear Joined: May 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 561	I've used LA2a on some acoustic string stuff, classical movie score. It was truly beautiful. But on some more rhythmical stuff LA3a might be too slow. But 1176 can work.Try it. Try to get yourself the 1778 or just two 1176's, you can use them as dual mono, it's good.

22nd July 2011	#5
Jim Williams Voiding warranties Joined: Feb 2004 Location: beautiful Carlsbad, CA Posts: 10,068	Combined with an M-15 it will be dark. If you find yourself pushing up the top boost EQ in more than a couple of tracks, that's telling you something.

22nd July 2011	#6
skythemusic Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,110	I love LA3A's but I would consider them a little too slow for mix bus duty. The 1178's were supposedly "designed" for that duty but I haven't used those in a long time. I used to have an Ashly SC-55, the stereo version of the 50. I did use that on the 2 bus regularly and it was ok. A bit of a tone sucker in my opinion but it did have a fairly glassy sheen. I liked it better on 2 bus than guitars which most seem to prefer them for. I currently have a DBX 165a that I love for parallel. I haven't tried it on the 2 bus as I only have one. I'm considering the Charter Oak comp and the Overstayer vca for 2 bus processing. I'm currently using the Hammer eq on 2 bus.

24th July 2011	#7
SongJohn Gear Head Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 44 Thread Starter	Too slow for mix buss duty?? REALLY?? That's so sad!! I love the sound of this piece! But I've only heard stereo drums run through...can't say I've heard an entire mix run through it. ... By the way, thanks for all the replies....you guys are awesome!!!! The thing that frightens me is this 1178 thing. It's entirely perfect ...and I'm glad someone mentioned it. However, this piece is not transistor based. Well, it is, but the transistors are placed in opamps, small miniaturized amplifiers that to me sound much different from the silicon transister-type amp. So with this in mind, do you think the 1178 will still produce comperable results to LA3....or is it poor/ not strong enough in comparison?

24th July 2011	#10
Slipperman Harmless Wacko Joined: Dec 2002 Location: A prison cell with soffit mounts Posts: 1,716	No. Sounds like rubbish in that role. Find something else. SM.

25th July 2011	#14
Space Station Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Chichester UK Posts: 3,022	Does the LA3A make a good mix bus compressor? In my opinion no. Guitar bus..great. Bass..fantastic. Drums bus..OK..I like what it does to cymbals when you drive the input hard..sort of a nice crispy tone.

25th July 2011	#17
jmikeperkins Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 844	I have a pair of vintage dbx 160 VU compressors and I just love them, but generally speaking, I think they have too much coloration to make good 2 buss mix compressors. They will pump a bit (in a late 70's good way) when pushed and while that might be just what you want with an electric guitar or a rock vocal, I think it would be a little much on a whole mix. I would think the same thing would be true with of an 1176. I don't have an LA-3A so I can't comment on those specifically. But what I do have, which makes an excellent mix bus compressor, is the 2 channel Anthony Demaria CL-1500 which is his take on an LA-2A. Anthony designed that unit to also work as a 2 channel mix buss compressor and it does a great job at that. The 2 channels can also be linked by a switch on the front. If you are looking for a T4 based optical compressor (like an LA-2A, LA-3A) for a mix buss, you should look at the CL-1500.

25th July 2011	#18
mappee Gear nut Joined: Jan 2008 Location: nj Posts: 93	la3a's as someone said above are better used on single channels. The dbx 160s is really good on the master buss. I'm talking of the newer blue units not the black vintage ones. It is on the cleaner side of things and I say use the auto mode and only compress lightly .5 to 3db. If you want more color add some pultecs in the chain. 160s is good enough for mastering house useage and very accurate. Make sure it's in good working order as dbx messed up with the voltages although they won't own up to it. The original s model was replaced with the sl very quickly but then they started to have trouble with the voltage supplying their proprietary modules. They may have fixed the problem but my unit has not been repaired and sits like as testament to dbx's error. You would think they'd rather fix it than have me tell clients dbx flagship compressor is not useable? ?? ???

9th February 2012	#20
Tube World Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2008 Location: Franklin TN Posts: 2,401 5 Reviews written	I think for a 2 bus the LA3-A may not be the best thing, however at the mastering stage, it behaves very similar to some optic hardware compressors used at this stage. I don't have the hardware but I have started using the Waves LA3-A at the mastering stage. It is a very nice transparent optic compressor that just controls the transients without affecting the overall sound of the mix. Give it a try and tell me what you think?