single mic for singer/songwriter, acoustic guitar/piano

[kissingonstilts]

I'm seeking your subjective experiential perspectives for a mic that I can use for voice, acoustic guitar (steel-string), acoustic piano, and sundry percussion.

For years I had KM84s (used them to record and for live work - preferred a single mic to the stereo pair for both situations) and some Schoeps experiences (CMC6 with MK4). These were quite nice, but I wanted to try LDCs.

Some of my early albums were done with B&K mics, but I didn't really like them all that well; also used some of the AKG stuff (451s and 414s) and that wasn't so appealing either.

I bought a TLM170 when they came out (a fellow that had recently done a Paul Simon album said he used one with one of Doug Fearn's pre amps and that it worked beautifully), but it wasn't quite what I was seeking.

I then got a CMV563 which was very lovely on my voice - complex, vibrant, and vividly musical - but it made my guitars sound murky (at that time I was using an archtop by Jimmy D'Aquisto, and a Steve Klein flat-top).

Then the 'new' Gefell mics came out and I got a 92.1 and then a UM900 - they were very nice and I used the UM900 for two albums with very good results, but I still sort of missed the voluptuousness of the 563. Then I got some Korby mics - a FET47 and an Empyrean tube with a 47-like capsule. These were very nice indeed, but the tube mic was too roundy for my voice, and the FET didn't have quite enough personality - but they were close.
I've access to some Didrik DeGeer mics which I may rent, but even if I adore them I won't be able to afford them (18k).

Some have encouraged me to try the Horch mics, and the Wagners (Australia); the vintage classics are a bit too expensive (C12, U47, 251). I heard a BLUE bottle at AES two years ago and I thought it was interesting, as was the Manley Gold Reference, and the too-expensive-for-me Brauner (though it was a bit too agressive for my taste).

I've also tried 'normal' Neumanns - 87, 89, 193, 103, and they haven't suited me. I'm not drawn to the ADT, AT, Peluso, Lawson, SoundDelux lines, (and I've tried some of them), and that subjective/intuitive aspect is meaningful to me. I'm sure they are fine mics, but atmospherically not for me.

The tone colour of my voice is somewhat smooth and airy (Paul Simony with more breadth along with a John/Paul Beatlesque thing, although a slightly lower tessitura in both analogies). I use Klein and Zemaitis acoustics. I have a Millennia TD-1 pre - it seems fine.

This is a mic will be for me (and to record students), not a commercial studio.
Price isn't so important as suitability.
I know that the only way I'll know is to keep trying, but I'm interested in hearing about your experiences in similar musical situations with similar tone colours. Thank you for pondering all of this.

[ziegenh5]

Sounds like a U67 with the fillters removed would be in order. Or maybe an M269.
Good luck,
Sean

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by kissingonstilts

I've also tried 'normal' Neumanns - 87, 89, 193, 103, and they haven't suited me. I'm not drawn to the ADT, AT, Peluso, Lawson, SoundDelux lines, (and I've tried some of them), and that subjective/intuitive aspect is meaningful to me. I'm sure they are fine mics, but atmospherically not for me.

Wow, you've eliminated most of the manufacturer's that make great mics for smaller budgets... I suggest you take a second look at all of those manufacturers, or consider taking a second mortgage out.

Also, what did you not like about the U87? I think most are pretty familiar with that mic, so maybe using that as a starting point we can steer you in the right direction. But, eliminating great lines like Peluso, Soundelux and Audio Technica is something you might want to reconsider, at least until you hear them ALL..

[mpr3]

One recent 'game over' mic (there are a few out there) we have recently acquired is the Wunder cm7. I would hands down choose it over our u47 and u48 (both with vf14s - granted our 47 has some 'PVC issues') for 70+% of vocalists.

The magical 47 mids are there in the cm7, but that thing that kills us compared to other mics is the smooth, yet very present high end. I am not sure how he pulled that off.

PS: I am a cmv563 lover as well, if that means anything to you.

[Fruition2k]

I'll agree on the M269, may need more top for acoustic guitars..if so Tony at
SPA can install the .9 micron diaphram mod and that should get you everything
and then some. Works for G. Massengurg Stephen Paul told me a few years
ago. I plan on that mod for my 269, but its not cheap!

BTW I wonder if the new SPA mic will meet your needs, cant wait to finally
hear some users comments.

All the best,

[gwailoh]

If I understand what you're saying about how wide your needs are, I'd suggest listening to the Royer R-122. I'm finding it to be the most versatile mic in the locker. Really, you can put it on just about anything and it sounds great. In addition to which, it has a very strong sense of definition, to my ear: sonic images in the monitors are exceptionally well-localized and precise. If you're concerned it might not be bright enough for acoustic guitar or voice, note that it takes EQ real well. And it has a bright(er) side if you flip it around. Anyway if you've got the chance to audition things, check it out on a variety of sources and see what you think. If I had to be limited to just one mic, this would be the one.

Hope this helps!

[Steve Singh]

Wow. You are a fussy one.

[kissingonstilts]

Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful replies. I've had several people tell me that a modded 67 would be a wise try; and the 269 is one I hadn't pondered, nor the Royer, but I shall.

I did try an AEA mic, but it didn't suit me. Has anyone tried the Horch? The Violet Flamingo? The Wagner? Your experiences are welcome. Thanking you in advance.

[seaneldon]

Brauner makes several mics in your budget if you're considering a Horch or a BLUE Bottle, and nearly every model I've come across is great on all the applications you're looking to take care of. Maybe try and look into one again.

I've heard wonderful things about the Horch and Wagner mics though I've never seen either in person.

[velophone]

The Horch RM2J is stunning! I have compared it a Gefell M92.1s, VMA, M149 on voice, guitars (nylon and steel) and room sounds. It doesn't sound as thin as the VMA or M149, but is very detailed, also in the mids (which to me is often a problem with condenser mics)
THe good thing about it is the fact that you can put it a little bit further away from the source without loosing 'body'

[mixerguy]

Man, you don't like anything!

[7om]

The Korby convertible with the 67 capsule might be a good way to go. I just did a session with it on acoustic guitar and it sounded amazing after rolling off a bit of low end. Have also had great success with male vocals. Additionally, the 251 capusule is one of the clearest, most "open" sounding mics I have ever worked with. Based on your description, I can understand why 47-ish Korby stuff may not have been what you were looking for.

[kissingonstilts]

Greetings, I'm in the East Bay - are we close? It would be helpful to try the Korbys if you have them.
I'm finding all of your experiences with mics helpful - please keep them coming.

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[natpub]

I'd take the mic that got you closest in the past, then change the pre. I can think of 4 or 5 preamps that would move a mic closer to what you seem to be describing than the Millenia.

[kissingonstilts]

Which ones? Any mic/pre combinations that were particularly enthralling for my previously-mentioned application? Thanking you in advance.

[ddageek]

I think you are not going to find one mic that fits al your wants and needs I suggest you think in terms of a couple to cover all your basics!

[kissingonstilts]

I realize that this may indeed be the case, but I'm not yet convinced multiple mics are my only solution. I'm still interested to hear of your experiences with a single mic placed before acoustic guitar/ voice; acoustic piano/voice scenarios. Thanking you in advance.

[7om]

Originally Posted by kissingonstilts

Greetings, I'm in the East Bay - are we close? It would be helpful to try the Korbys if you have them.
I'm finding all of your experiences with mics helpful - please keep them coming.

Sorry I missed your reply earlier. I live in the East Bay, but my studio is in SF. I'd be happy to talk to you more about my experiences with the Korby. My contact info can be found at www.megasonics.net.