Login / Register
 
New Monitors - Klein Hummel O300 or...
New Reply
Subscribe
Mixary
Thread Starter
#1
10th March 2006
Old 10th March 2006
  #1
Gear nut
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 97

Thread Starter
Mixary is offline
New Monitors - Klein Hummel O300 or...

HI,

i search new monitors for my studio. My favorit monitors are Klein Hummel O300
for electronic dance music. my dealer has second hand passive westlake lc3w12.
this monitors are very big, with a 12 woofer and round about 50 kg per speaker.
i think the westlake would be cool for the low-end.
have you experiences about westlake and klein hummel O300.
I know, there are many threats about klein and hummel, but most slutz here produce more rock than electronic stuff.

thanx
#2
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,396

kingofswing is offline
I have demoed a pair of K+H O300d's along side a pair of Adam S3a's for a whole week thanks to a very good dealer / retailer. I am looking to make an upgrade soon (from my P33a's), and found these two monitors to be the best choice for me (3-way and do not cost as much as the British brands). They are both high end monitors, both 3-way (whilst i feel the 0300d's to be a true 3-way), both are German (which i trust), both similar price, both have pros and cons.

I found no clear winner in my demoing, both translate mixes very well for me (i was quite impressed)), give or take here or there.

I started by playing familiar recordings through them (as most of us do), followed by extensive sound tests with my collection of sounds from softsynths to romplers. I wanted to compare and contrast the tonal character of each speaker by playing various sources of sounds through them.

The S3a's are typical Adam to my ears. I am not going to go much into it, other than they are extremely fast speakers with an extremely tight bottom end (though not as deep as the O300d's, but still tighter). The bass is very clean and uncoloured or hyped, alowing you to hear bass as well as feeling it (although i would feel the need to add the Sub10 in the future). The S3a's have superb detail in the midrange as well as the high range (ART tweeter), and a very nice stereo image (once you find the right spot and positioning). The overall sound is quite neutral compared to my P33s (as playing various midrange heavy material confirmed this).

Now the K+H O300d's:

Very nice design, love the 3-way separation. In my room (Untreated, but i wasnt blasting the speakers) the bass was pretty rounded, deep and felt just right (after i adjusted the bass tilt on the back by -1 notch). The bass is very clean, but i felt that they are not as tight as the S3a's (i had quite a few opinions on this). The o300d's do go deeper down to below 40hz (compared to the S3a's), and the bass can be felt and not just heard. If you are in a small room, a sub is not needed IMO. They go plenty deep.

The midrange is very neutral and well placed. Voices are the main highlight, which bothers me a little (me). I find that the o300d's does something to the vocal range (on almost every commercial song played through them) that really brings them out in the mix. Not sure why, but (to my ears) it leaves the rest of the track tucked back a tad little. They are not as forward as the Adams, but this may be a good or a bad thing (im not going to go into it)...its a matter of taste. Both are at the top the tree.

Solo tracks with instruments such as piano's, strings, flutes, etc, are reproduced with a very smooth clarity, natural and uncoloured. However in a busy track things are not as easy to identify. IMO the S3a's held up better with busy tracks at decent sound levels.

The top end is very smooth and extended, yet far from harsh (similar to the small models in the new Genelec 8000 series). They do make some vocals appear a little edgy or swirly, which can get to you ears after a while.

But like i said above both speakers are stunning, they translate very well (give or take slight mix amendments needed). You may still need to reference on other playback systems, which doesnt hurt.

I am now stuck in the mud with these two speaker choices, with no clear winners. They both work for me, but one pair has to make its way back to me.

So there you go, thats my experience with the K+H (and the S3a's)
#3
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #3
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 5,152

Lagerfeldt is offline
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
__________________


Online Mastering.dk

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum
#4
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Toward SoCal
Posts: 4,862

GYang is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
I don't know for electronica, but for rock. rock/pop K+H rules. Really.
#5
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #5
Gear maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 229

iziphonics is offline
o300d here too. Amazing monitors. No doubt!!! Can't go wrong with them....
#6
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #6
Gear addict
 
RobAcid's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Cologne / Germany
Posts: 357

Send a message via ICQ to RobAcid
RobAcid is offline
i work with Westlake LC 8.1 here.....

want to check a second good monitor set for me ....cause its so nice to work with my dangerous st controller....


doing almost only electronic music....
#7
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,473

Send a message via AIM to studjo Send a message via Skype™ to studjo
studjo is offline
I compared the S3A and the O300 the other week and I have to say that both monitors are vey professional speakers. I could learn to work with both. I preferred "soundcharakteristics" of the K&H. But I have to admit that the very low end (speak below 60Hz) was hard to judge on em. I couldn't work with the bass of the Adams at all I'd have to ad a sub if I bought the Adams - no chance without it - for me. The K&H have a small soundstage IOW the coverage was very small - no problem if you work with a controller or totally ITB but with a desk and outboard it's a bit a pain in the ass. It could be an advantage in acoustically not perfect rooms - but in my room it's just not the way to go :(

All in all I'd say both are great speakers with little edge on the K&H - just for me I won't buy either :( - they aren't that much better than the Dynaudio IMO (or I know the Dyns by now )

Jo
#8
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
dokushoka's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco / L.A.
Posts: 1,092

Send a message via AIM to dokushoka
dokushoka is offline
I find that the 0300d's give me an unusual sense of confidence when compared to other nearfields. I find them a joy to work with.
__________________
San Francisco based Mixing and Production
http://www.sfrecording.com
#9
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #9
Gear addict
 
Reggie Love's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Knebworth
Posts: 338

Reggie Love is offline
The Klein and Hummels O300s are lovely. I wish I could claim to own a pair, only tested them, but they won hands down for me, but just too much for the budget.
__________________
Patience, n. A minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue.
#10
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,396

kingofswing is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
hey,

its a tough call. Because i already use a pair of P33s, it hard to get away from the Adam sound that i have grown to like...and some.

In saying that, the K+H's are one pair of monitors that are hard to fault, at any price. They are just brilliant ground up. they are also very quiet on amp noise.

In my room both S3a's and O300d's just held up well, and i could work on either of them all day long. The strangest part for me when demoing the two speakers, i really thought i could easily pick the winner. They are both winners to me. They both have thier ups and downs, and all i know is that i have never had a better experience with a pair of high end nearfields as these two.

Whichever pair i choose, i am confident that i wont regret.

The way im seeing it, if i go for the S3a's, i can then add a sub10 later down the line to use the system for both loud playback as well as acurate mixing.

If i go for the o300d's, i wouldnt see the need to add a sub as it already has a big woofer (that goes fairly deep).
#11
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
 
mpr3's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 520

Send a message via AIM to mpr3
mpr3 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing
If i go for the o300d's, i wouldnt see the need to add a sub as it already has a big woofer (that goes fairly deep).
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
#12
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #12
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 5,152

Lagerfeldt is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
Yeah I still think there's a benefit from using the sub, however I would try the ARAM sub since it has some tricks up its sleeve compared to the straight 800 version. Might be overkill, might not.
#13
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #13
Gear addict
 
huarez's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: EUROPE
Posts: 361

huarez is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
Yeah I still think there's a benefit from using the sub, however I would try the ARAM sub since it has some tricks up its sleeve compared to the straight 800 version. Might be overkill, might not.

I heard the K+H sub and had been deeply impressed! It sound`s FULLRANGE and you dont´t have the feeling there is a sub working. I will buy it when there´s some money left.
Mixary
Thread Starter
#14
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #14
Gear nut
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 97

Thread Starter
Mixary is offline
Thank you for your reply. very cool !!!
yesterday i got the westlake for testing and these speaker are unbelievable.
they are so massive in the bassrange, so true in the midrange and they give you
so much information in the high-mid and highrange.

yesterday i mixed 4 songs and checked them on other speaker and sound-systems. all songs sounds very good on all speaker.

so my workflow on the westlake is very good.
i never heard so good monitors before !!!

here is a westlake lc3w12 review :

http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speaker...diolc3w12.html

on the otherhand these speaker are very heavy and i think the response
is not realy flat. i am not sure, if i could use the westlake for mastering.
i have to check this.

All replies about the klein hummel O300 are very positive and the response is
flat. the size is also good for midfield monitoring. but i hate working with
subs.

next week i will check out the O300.

thank you
#15
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #15
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,527
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
I highly recommend K&H. I own O198 with the O800 sub. Because I also do electronic dance music, I'd recommend that you should get the sub.




Quote:
but i hate working with
subs.
Why is that? The O800 delivers a great, deep and dry bass response that you hardly find somewhere else.
__________________
.

stardustmedia - murat
high end analog music production
stay tuned thru my facebook fanpage: stardustmedia
#16
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #16
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,527
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
That's true. You can listen louder.
#17
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #17
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 5,152

Lagerfeldt is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz
I highly recommend K&H. I own O198 with the O800 sub. Because I also do electronic dance music, I'd recommend that you should get the sub.
Have you tried the 800 ARAM sub?
Mixary
Thread Starter
#18
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #18
Gear nut
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 97

Thread Starter
Mixary is offline
Why is that? The O800 delivers a great, deep and dry bass response that you hardly find somewhere else.[/QUOTE]


i used westlake lc5.75 with a tannoy sub. i measured the sub in my studio, and it was an amazing sound for listening. but i noticed that mixing was very difficult
i think, by using a sub, you have only a one-point sound source in the bass.
this will add more resonance in the control room.using more sound sources
will not come into being resonance.

the second problem is the phase of the bass by using a sub
#19
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #19
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 5,152

Lagerfeldt is offline
Some people like two subs, but phase can usually be adjusted on the sub. Also the same care in setting up monitors should be applied to the sub, it can take quite a while and some technical knowledge to get it right.
#20
14th March 2006
Old 14th March 2006
  #20
Indonesian Gearhead
 
Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 514

Send a message via MSN to Ribbonmicguy Send a message via Yahoo to Ribbonmicguy
Ribbonmicguy is offline
I've used KH O300D for 2 years. Great speaker. No flaws in this speaker except probably for how fast the limiter works if you listen at a certain loud level. I don't listen really loud, but noticed on how the speaker restrict itself dynamically. Overall, it's a great speaker though.

But since last week, I've listened to Focal SM11, and truly, this is a level higher than O300D.
__________________
------------------------------
Harmoko Aguswan
Big Knob Studio
Brotherland Studio
@mokobigbro
------------------------------
#21
20th March 2006
Old 20th March 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,473

Send a message via AIM to studjo Send a message via Skype™ to studjo
studjo is offline
Yo Rib - I told you you'll like the SM11 - the most amazing speaker I ever heard.
#22
20th March 2006
Old 20th March 2006
  #22
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,527
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixary
... but i noticed that mixing was very difficult
i think, by using a sub, you have only a one-point sound source in the bass.

That's very interesting. For me it's right the opposite. But that's porbably because I do mostly electronic music where bass is crucial and very deeeeeep This kind of music is built on the bass floor. If it doesn't work/groove there you can skip the whole song.
#23
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 860

Filthrill is offline
Old thread & I love revitalizing old threads so here we go. Man I'm really liking what I'm reading about the K&H 0300Ds. All I'm hearing is people saying how accurate they are. Not 1 negative review. I'm strongly considering these for my mixing & mastering. Trust me I've worked w/ some really non-flattering speakers. These kind of remind me of ATCs. Both look real nice too.
__________________
Fil
...don't worry, the song will be faded out by that point.
#24
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: South West UK
Posts: 1,696

AlexK is offline
FWIW, I find my SCM20 passives to be a considerable step up from the O300s in terms of transparency. I haven't heard the SCM25s but can imagine them being even better again...
__________________
Alex
#25
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 860

Filthrill is offline
Man the ATCs are wayyy more expensive but I'm sure they're worth it. Maybe I should consider ATCs & just spend the xtra $$. Seems like the Rolls Royce of monitors. Crazy question: did u work your way up to the ATCs after using other (cheaper) monitors? Which ones have you owned? Your ATCs were not your 1st monitors were they?? Just curious because they're high-end & I'm finally just about ready to purchase high-end monitors too after pretty much exhausting the usage of my current (extremely average) monitors that I've been using for wayyy to long.
#26
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: South West UK
Posts: 1,696

AlexK is offline
I worked my way up straight from Adams - to be honest I didn't see the point in incrementally moving up to ATCs - I knew they were the only monitors I feel truly satisfied with when using, so rather than lose loads of money buying and selling, I just saved up.

Although I do want 50s at some point, but that's way down the line. The 20s are absolutely stunningly good.
#27
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,473

Send a message via AIM to studjo Send a message via Skype™ to studjo
studjo is offline
Focal SM11 floored the K&HO300 when I compared em in my room - it was not even close ... but mind you, your room might be different ...
#28
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 7,902

John Willett is offline
The O300 are no more - now it's the Neumann KH310.
#29
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 860

Filthrill is offline
John this changes the game completely then. A lot of changes have been made to the speaker according to the youtube video i just watched. It's a much more worthy speaker now & IMO is worth every penny they're askin for it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G
#30
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Paris and around the world
Posts: 2,225

Send a message via Skype™ to LeMauce
LeMauce is offline
Get 0300 with two 0800subs and be stunned by the massive sound you can get by open up the headroom.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
morgs500 / High end
0
petsematary / So much gear, so little time!
6
echotp / High end
2

Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.