New Monitors - Klein Hummel O300 or...
Mixary
Thread Starter
#1
10th March 2006
Old 10th March 2006
  #1
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
New Monitors - Klein Hummel O300 or...

HI,

i search new monitors for my studio. My favorit monitors are Klein Hummel O300
for electronic dance music. my dealer has second hand passive westlake lc3w12.
this monitors are very big, with a 12 woofer and round about 50 kg per speaker.
i think the westlake would be cool for the low-end.
have you experiences about westlake and klein hummel O300.
I know, there are many threats about klein and hummel, but most slutz here produce more rock than electronic stuff.

thanx
#2
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
I have demoed a pair of K+H O300d's along side a pair of Adam S3a's for a whole week thanks to a very good dealer / retailer. I am looking to make an upgrade soon (from my P33a's), and found these two monitors to be the best choice for me (3-way and do not cost as much as the British brands). They are both high end monitors, both 3-way (whilst i feel the 0300d's to be a true 3-way), both are German (which i trust), both similar price, both have pros and cons.

I found no clear winner in my demoing, both translate mixes very well for me (i was quite impressed)), give or take here or there.

I started by playing familiar recordings through them (as most of us do), followed by extensive sound tests with my collection of sounds from softsynths to romplers. I wanted to compare and contrast the tonal character of each speaker by playing various sources of sounds through them.

The S3a's are typical Adam to my ears. I am not going to go much into it, other than they are extremely fast speakers with an extremely tight bottom end (though not as deep as the O300d's, but still tighter). The bass is very clean and uncoloured or hyped, alowing you to hear bass as well as feeling it (although i would feel the need to add the Sub10 in the future). The S3a's have superb detail in the midrange as well as the high range (ART tweeter), and a very nice stereo image (once you find the right spot and positioning). The overall sound is quite neutral compared to my P33s (as playing various midrange heavy material confirmed this).

Now the K+H O300d's:

Very nice design, love the 3-way separation. In my room (Untreated, but i wasnt blasting the speakers) the bass was pretty rounded, deep and felt just right (after i adjusted the bass tilt on the back by -1 notch). The bass is very clean, but i felt that they are not as tight as the S3a's (i had quite a few opinions on this). The o300d's do go deeper down to below 40hz (compared to the S3a's), and the bass can be felt and not just heard. If you are in a small room, a sub is not needed IMO. They go plenty deep.

The midrange is very neutral and well placed. Voices are the main highlight, which bothers me a little (me). I find that the o300d's does something to the vocal range (on almost every commercial song played through them) that really brings them out in the mix. Not sure why, but (to my ears) it leaves the rest of the track tucked back a tad little. They are not as forward as the Adams, but this may be a good or a bad thing (im not going to go into it)...its a matter of taste. Both are at the top the tree.

Solo tracks with instruments such as piano's, strings, flutes, etc, are reproduced with a very smooth clarity, natural and uncoloured. However in a busy track things are not as easy to identify. IMO the S3a's held up better with busy tracks at decent sound levels.

The top end is very smooth and extended, yet far from harsh (similar to the small models in the new Genelec 8000 series). They do make some vocals appear a little edgy or swirly, which can get to you ears after a while.

But like i said above both speakers are stunning, they translate very well (give or take slight mix amendments needed). You may still need to reference on other playback systems, which doesnt hurt.

I am now stuck in the mud with these two speaker choices, with no clear winners. They both work for me, but one pair has to make its way back to me.

So there you go, thats my experience with the K+H (and the S3a's)
#3
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #3
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
#4
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
I don't know for electronica, but for rock. rock/pop K+H rules. Really.
#5
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #5
Gear maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 

o300d here too. Amazing monitors. No doubt!!! Can't go wrong with them....
#6
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #6
Gear addict
 
RobAcid's Avatar
 

i work with Westlake LC 8.1 here.....

want to check a second good monitor set for me ....cause its so nice to work with my dangerous st controller....


doing almost only electronic music....
#7
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
I compared the S3A and the O300 the other week and I have to say that both monitors are vey professional speakers. I could learn to work with both. I preferred "soundcharakteristics" of the K&H. But I have to admit that the very low end (speak below 60Hz) was hard to judge on em. I couldn't work with the bass of the Adams at all I'd have to ad a sub if I bought the Adams - no chance without it - for me. The K&H have a small soundstage IOW the coverage was very small - no problem if you work with a controller or totally ITB but with a desk and outboard it's a bit a pain in the ass. It could be an advantage in acoustically not perfect rooms - but in my room it's just not the way to go :(

All in all I'd say both are great speakers with little edge on the K&H - just for me I won't buy either :( - they aren't that much better than the Dynaudio IMO (or I know the Dyns by now )

Jo
#8
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
dokushoka's Avatar
 

I find that the 0300d's give me an unusual sense of confidence when compared to other nearfields. I find them a joy to work with.
#9
11th March 2006
Old 11th March 2006
  #9
Gear addict
 
Reggie Love's Avatar
 

The Klein and Hummels O300s are lovely. I wish I could claim to own a pair, only tested them, but they won hands down for me, but just too much for the budget.
#10
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
I bet you're keepin the K+H.. :-) I currently have ADAM S2.5A but I will probably be switching to K+H O 300 D + 800 ARAM sub in the near future.

I produce electronic music too, dance and lots of remixes. But in general good monitoring is good monitoring, however you need very good bass reproduction for club music.
hey,

its a tough call. Because i already use a pair of P33s, it hard to get away from the Adam sound that i have grown to like...and some.

In saying that, the K+H's are one pair of monitors that are hard to fault, at any price. They are just brilliant ground up. they are also very quiet on amp noise.

In my room both S3a's and O300d's just held up well, and i could work on either of them all day long. The strangest part for me when demoing the two speakers, i really thought i could easily pick the winner. They are both winners to me. They both have thier ups and downs, and all i know is that i have never had a better experience with a pair of high end nearfields as these two.

Whichever pair i choose, i am confident that i wont regret.

The way im seeing it, if i go for the S3a's, i can then add a sub10 later down the line to use the system for both loud playback as well as acurate mixing.

If i go for the o300d's, i wouldnt see the need to add a sub as it already has a big woofer (that goes fairly deep).
#11
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
 
mpr3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing
If i go for the o300d's, i wouldnt see the need to add a sub as it already has a big woofer (that goes fairly deep).
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
#12
12th March 2006
Old 12th March 2006
  #12
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
Yeah I still think there's a benefit from using the sub, however I would try the ARAM sub since it has some tricks up its sleeve compared to the straight 800 version. Might be overkill, might not.
#13
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #13
Gear addict
 
huarez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt
Yeah I still think there's a benefit from using the sub, however I would try the ARAM sub since it has some tricks up its sleeve compared to the straight 800 version. Might be overkill, might not.

I heard the K+H sub and had been deeply impressed! It sound`s FULLRANGE and you dont´t have the feeling there is a sub working. I will buy it when there´s some money left.
Mixary
Thread Starter
#14
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #14
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Thank you for your reply. very cool !!!
yesterday i got the westlake for testing and these speaker are unbelievable.
they are so massive in the bassrange, so true in the midrange and they give you
so much information in the high-mid and highrange.

yesterday i mixed 4 songs and checked them on other speaker and sound-systems. all songs sounds very good on all speaker.

so my workflow on the westlake is very good.
i never heard so good monitors before !!!

here is a westlake lc3w12 review :

http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speaker...diolc3w12.html

on the otherhand these speaker are very heavy and i think the response
is not realy flat. i am not sure, if i could use the westlake for mastering.
i have to check this.

All replies about the klein hummel O300 are very positive and the response is
flat. the size is also good for midfield monitoring. but i hate working with
subs.

next week i will check out the O300.

thank you
#15
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #15
I highly recommend K&H. I own O198 with the O800 sub. Because I also do electronic dance music, I'd recommend that you should get the sub.




Quote:
but i hate working with
subs.
Why is that? The O800 delivers a great, deep and dry bass response that you hardly find somewhere else.
#16
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr3
I agree. You don't need a sub with the 0300s for mixing and for mastering IMO.

However, adding the sub (0800) does tighten up the low end response a bit (assuming the speakers are in phase with the woofer), relieves some slight pressure from the 0300 mids (maybe I am tripping here) and allows the monitors to get about 10 dB louder before the red KH light begins to wobble (peak limiting).
That's true. You can listen louder.
#17
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #17
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz
I highly recommend K&H. I own O198 with the O800 sub. Because I also do electronic dance music, I'd recommend that you should get the sub.
Have you tried the 800 ARAM sub?
Mixary
Thread Starter
#18
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #18
Gear nut
 

Thread Starter
Why is that? The O800 delivers a great, deep and dry bass response that you hardly find somewhere else.[/QUOTE]


i used westlake lc5.75 with a tannoy sub. i measured the sub in my studio, and it was an amazing sound for listening. but i noticed that mixing was very difficult
i think, by using a sub, you have only a one-point sound source in the bass.
this will add more resonance in the control room.using more sound sources
will not come into being resonance.

the second problem is the phase of the bass by using a sub
#19
13th March 2006
Old 13th March 2006
  #19
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Some people like two subs, but phase can usually be adjusted on the sub. Also the same care in setting up monitors should be applied to the sub, it can take quite a while and some technical knowledge to get it right.
#20
14th March 2006
Old 14th March 2006
  #20
Indonesian Gearhead
 
Ribbonmicguy's Avatar
 

I've used KH O300D for 2 years. Great speaker. No flaws in this speaker except probably for how fast the limiter works if you listen at a certain loud level. I don't listen really loud, but noticed on how the speaker restrict itself dynamically. Overall, it's a great speaker though.

But since last week, I've listened to Focal SM11, and truly, this is a level higher than O300D.
#21
20th March 2006
Old 20th March 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
Yo Rib - I told you you'll like the SM11 - the most amazing speaker I ever heard.
#22
20th March 2006
Old 20th March 2006
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixary
... but i noticed that mixing was very difficult
i think, by using a sub, you have only a one-point sound source in the bass.

That's very interesting. For me it's right the opposite. But that's porbably because I do mostly electronic music where bass is crucial and very deeeeeep This kind of music is built on the bass floor. If it doesn't work/groove there you can skip the whole song.
#23
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 

Old thread & I love revitalizing old threads so here we go. Man I'm really liking what I'm reading about the K&H 0300Ds. All I'm hearing is people saying how accurate they are. Not 1 negative review. I'm strongly considering these for my mixing & mastering. Trust me I've worked w/ some really non-flattering speakers. These kind of remind me of ATCs. Both look real nice too.
#24
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 

FWIW, I find my SCM20 passives to be a considerable step up from the O300s in terms of transparency. I haven't heard the SCM25s but can imagine them being even better again...
#25
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 

Man the ATCs are wayyy more expensive but I'm sure they're worth it. Maybe I should consider ATCs & just spend the xtra $$. Seems like the Rolls Royce of monitors. Crazy question: did u work your way up to the ATCs after using other (cheaper) monitors? Which ones have you owned? Your ATCs were not your 1st monitors were they?? Just curious because they're high-end & I'm finally just about ready to purchase high-end monitors too after pretty much exhausting the usage of my current (extremely average) monitors that I've been using for wayyy to long.
#26
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
AlexK's Avatar
 

I worked my way up straight from Adams - to be honest I didn't see the point in incrementally moving up to ATCs - I knew they were the only monitors I feel truly satisfied with when using, so rather than lose loads of money buying and selling, I just saved up.

Although I do want 50s at some point, but that's way down the line. The 20s are absolutely stunningly good.
#27
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
Focal SM11 floored the K&HO300 when I compared em in my room - it was not even close ... but mind you, your room might be different ...
#28
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

The O300 are no more - now it's the Neumann KH310.
#29
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Filthrill's Avatar
 

John this changes the game completely then. A lot of changes have been made to the speaker according to the youtube video i just watched. It's a much more worthy speaker now & IMO is worth every penny they're askin for it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G
#30
16th December 2012
Old 16th December 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 

Get 0300 with two 0800subs and be stunned by the massive sound you can get by open up the headroom.
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