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Lexicon PCM96 how's things actually ?
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blackfinder
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#1
20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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Lexicon PCM96 how's things actually ?

hello, i rerading so many people had/having issues with pcm96 when using it as hardware "plug-in".

furthermore i noted there's so much ads of people selling this machine at very lower price than it costs brand new.

so my question is: how's things actually ?

still firewire/latency isssues ?
why so many guys get rid of a $3000 reverb unit for half or less the price ?
is it not really good sounding unit or just too many functional issues ?
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20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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It sounds as good as the plugin. Was the generall consensus. So you can have way more instances in the box with the plugin and there will be some left over for a pcm60 or something wich would add to the arsenal.
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20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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I'm waiting for the price to drop more. Maybe a PCM 92 will be even less?

Any sacrafice sellers contact me.
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20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I'm waiting for the price to drop more. Maybe a PCM 92 will be even less? Any sacrafice sellers contact me.
Not sure if this is a long-term investment, but Lexicon is not the best when it comes to servicing products, or keeping spares, down the road. Also, I'm not sure the "hardware plugin" feature on the PCM 96 works seamlessly as advertised. Consider yourself warned.
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20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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Lexicon has a history of dropping the ball on software products.
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20th June 2011
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thanks for your replies...

u saying the plugin sounds like the real hardware ?!
mmm...so why one should buy the HW unit at 3000$ ?!

i read the HW allows u 2 stereo channels when usaed via firewire, but only 1 ch in normal wired configuration.

how is reliable the FW feature actually ?
any user out there ?
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20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
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I’d say forget the 96 and FW. Don’t count on Lexicon to furnish drivers for the next 10 years.

I’d say get either the 92, or the SW package !
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20th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfinder View Post
i read the HW allows u 2 stereo channels when usaed via firewire, but only 1 ch in normal wired configuration.

how is reliable the FW feature actually ?
any user out there ?
Not reliable at all. Worked for some, didn't work for others (i.e. me). Don't buy the box counting on the firewire to work.

-R
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20th June 2011
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ok good to know, but about the sound ?

how good is it versus TC or bricasti units ?
#10
21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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mine is working fine

I use it as a fire wire plugin in protools. It works fine. Make sure you have the latest software.

Sounds great too.
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21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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the unit stands up and holds its own along with the others considered to be the best. forget about the fw, use it as you would use your other hw reverbs it sounds amazing. another tool in the arsenal with its own sound not for everyhing but its great most of the time.
#12
21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
Lexicon has a history of dropping the ball on software products.
And also on their hardware products.

Bottom line - i took my chance on the software vs hardware. Sold 96, sold 60, sold 480L and got PCM Native and couldn't be happier. The 96 was great. Loved it. But it's not what they advertised. If you work in a computer, buy the native software, if you mix tape or radar thru a console, buy a 92. Forget the 96. Not worth the extra money.
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21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfinder View Post
how is reliable the FW feature actually ?
any user out there ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Not reliable at all.
Ditto.
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21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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Works fine
Latest fw sw
pthd9 mac 2.26 latest sw
I liked the plug but for the same price got the hw... Less instances (which is good sometimes)

Read the looong posts [really felt for those early adpters] on the problems etc but in the end i waited it out,till they got it sorted.... and I guess I like hw
On the one hand this might work longer over time if hardware is an example we can use
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21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rectifried View Post
Works fine
Latest fw sw
pthd9 mac 2.26 latest sw
I liked the plug but fir the same price got the hw... Less instances (which is good sometimes)
Read the looong posts on the problems etc but in the end i waitrd irr out and i like hw
On the one hand this might work longer over time if hardware is an example we can use
Glad its working for you (via fw, that is).

It's never worked for me. And yes, I've also read all the posts about it.
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21st June 2011
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My reason for not recommending the 96 is because is because the company is comfortable engaging in shameless corporate deception. The box actuall sounds great, but has cost me too many hours of frustration trying to get it to work as advertised--- which it never has.

I just don't like the feeling of being screwed. The company could have used this problem to show their customers that they were a stand up company. But, appear to not care and continue with deception.

Regardless of how well this company is doing I am sure they would be doing better if they had taken the high road.
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21st June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
My reason for not recommending the 96 is because is because the company is comfortable engaging in shameless corporate deception.
I don't know what kind of deception this is (corporate? customer?), but it doesn't make me comfortable purchasing anything with a 'Lexicon' name on it>>>

From GIZMODO.com,

Lexicon Charges $3500 For a Repackaged $500 Oppo Blu-ray Player

Lexicon Charges $3500 For a Repackaged $500 Oppo Blu-ray Player

This is a very, very bad thing Lexicon did. And thanks to the super sleuths at Audioholics, they got very, very caught.

The Lexicon BD-30 is a $3500 (!!!), THX-Certified Blu-ray player. Unfortunately, aside from some slight re-branding, it's also a $500 Oppo BDP-83, chassis and all. From the review:

"When we received the player the first thing we did was open it up to get a look at the inside. Imagine my surprise when I found that not only did the Lexicon share the same boards and transport as the Oppo - it was in fact AN OPPO BDP-83 PLAYER, CHASSIS AND ALL, SHOVED INSIDE AN ALUMINUM LEXICON WRAPPER. As far as we could determine, Lexicon didn't change a single thing in terms of the hardware. Heck, they didn't even lift the boards out of the chassis, opting instead to cut out the bottom of their own chassis to accommodate the venting locations, and putting a darker blue filter over the Oppo's VFD display to give it a slightly deeper hue."

The entire thing is so galling that it's actually kind of hilarious... unless you're someone who just found out you paid a 700% premium on a Blu-ray player. Then again, why on earth were you shelling out that kind of money in the first place?
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21st June 2011
Old 21st June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
And also on their hardware products.

Bottom line - i took my chance on the software vs hardware. Sold 96, sold 60, sold 480L and got PCM Native and couldn't be happier. The 96 was great. Loved it. But it's not what they advertised. If you work in a computer, buy the native software, if you mix tape or radar thru a console, buy a 92. Forget the 96. Not worth the extra money.
I did the same thing, sold off the expensive Lexy's as they were still worth too much to keep. I still have a rack of their cheapos that I love, the 2 Reflex, Alex, LXP1's and 15's. Those play well with Bricasti.

I have a slot waiting for a PCM92, if the right deal comes along...
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21st June 2011
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Branding:

This points out that many big corporations put more effort into branding that quality. Deception does take effort and numerous closed door meetings. Deception is deliberate. The one and only thing that we have to fight with is our pocket books. I will think twice or ten times before I make a purchase that benefits the Lexicon brand.

Life is short and I like to surround myself with people and things that make me feel good. When I look at PCM96, deep down I feel a distracting twinge. I am not going to buy the Lexicon Plugins. I am going to spend my money to support the many people that conduct business honorably. In the end it doesn't matter if the company is a large corporation or a small boutique company-- it boils down to the inherent code of honor or ethics of the company.

On the other hand, I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I like what the PCM96 does but it is on the back burner in my studio. I have thought about selling it but I can't get motivated about passing on what I consider bad Karma.

Lexicon Charges $3500 For a Repackaged $500 Oppo Blu-ray Player

Lexicon Charges $3500 For a Repackaged $500 Oppo Blu-ray Player

This is a very, very bad thing Lexicon did. And thanks to the super sleuths at Audioholics, they got very, very caught.

The Lexicon BD-30 is a $3500 (!!!), THX-Certified Blu-ray player. Unfortunately, aside from some slight re-branding, it's also a $500 Oppo BDP-83, chassis and all. From the review:

"When we received the player the first thing we did was open it up to get a look at the inside. Imagine my surprise when I found that not only did the Lexicon share the same boards and transport as the Oppo - it was in fact AN OPPO BDP-83 PLAYER, CHASSIS AND ALL, SHOVED INSIDE AN ALUMINUM LEXICON WRAPPER. As far as we could determine, Lexicon didn't change a single thing in terms of the hardware. Heck, they didn't even lift the boards out of the chassis, opting instead to cut out the bottom of their own chassis to accommodate the venting locations, and putting a darker blue filter over the Oppo's VFD display to give it a slightly deeper hue."

The entire thing is so galling that it's actually kind of hilarious... unless you're someone who just found out you paid a 700% premium on a Blu-ray player. Then again, why on earth were you shelling out that kind of money in the first place?
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21st June 2011
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I still like mine. I bought the PCM96 Surround (analog & digital). I use it mostly in VST mode (in Cubase 6 on a Mac) and it works great for me. I have the Lexicon Native plug-ins and I don't think they sound as good. I think I'm the only one who has mentioned this so I'm probably crazy. But I put up the PCM96, Lexicon Native and Valhalla Room halls with similar settings, and the PCM96S sounded the deepest and smoothest to me (depth "behind" speakers is something I like to listen for). (Valhalla Room was #2 BTW, and costs $50)

The reasons I bought the surround version were 1) I occasionally work in surround 2) I can access both machines from the built-in I/O, unlike the PCM96 where you can only use one. so when the software stops working completely, I can still use it as a normal processor. But I like the plug-in interface being saved with my project. Once or twice I've had the reverb stop streaming (only one out of two of them!) but rebooting solved it.

Best answer is to buy it from a dealer you have a relationship with so you can exchange it if it doesn't work with your system, or one that can help you get it running. (Yes, they do exist, but you won't find them if you sort by price on eBay or Amazon.)
#21
22nd June 2011
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I can't believe Lex is still selling the PCM96. The firewire proved to be so unreliable I'd think they'd just drop the whole idea. Many of us have gone down that road, so be advised.

-R
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22nd June 2011
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I am fine with the PCM96 Ethernet for plug-in recall and AES for the audio.
I don't even have a firewire cable connected to it anymore.
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22nd June 2011
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I bought the 96S because I was looking for a 480L equivalent but didn't want the potential maintenance hassles. To me, it doesn't sound the same, (too clean and clinical) but it still sounds better than anything else I have.

I miss the "warm dirty" sound of the old converters.
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22nd June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun View Post
This points out that many big corporations put more effort into branding that quality. Deception does take effort and numerous closed door meetings. Deception is deliberate. The one and only thing that we have to fight with is our pocket books. I will think twice or ten times before I make a purchase that benefits the Lexicon brand.
True True True I can testify, Amen!

I wish everyone could afford an M7 because that is what I put my soul into. But if plugins are what the budget dictates then buy TSAR1 and Aether. Together they are far beyond what the lex bundle provides. Please don't buy into the Lexicon brand name any longer because that is all it is anymore. There is no more research behind the name. Each retread is worse than the last.

A little inside view. I asked Lex Mgmt for a three year research project to advance the art. You would have thought I asked to go to the moon. To me it was clear that many DIY recordings were superior to the best reverbs of the day. As one of the first owners of a Sony 777 verb I knew that old school was about to become somewhat less cool.

The day I left my job was the day I listened to a DIY DCFC recording that had drum sounds that I knew could never be duplicated with available verbs.

I spent three years in my home developing a verb which could match a simple drum kit in a barn or similar.

This is the three years that Lexicon would not pay for. You can buy into advancing the art or you can buy into Harmon's "keep the brand alive" logic in order to sell dashboard electronics for the mother ship.

Did you know that Rolls Royce sports Lexicon dashboard stereo? So...



-Casey
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#25
22nd June 2011
Old 22nd June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
True True True I can testify, Amen!

I wish everyone could afford an M7 because that is what I put my soul into. But if plugins are what the budget dictates then buy TSAR1 and Aether. Together they are far beyond what the lex bundle provides. Please don't buy into the Lexicon brand name any longer because that is all it is anymore. There is no more research behind the name. Each retread is worse than the last.

A little inside view. I asked Lex Mgmt for a three year research project to advance the art. You would have thought I asked to go to the moon. To me it was clear that many DIY recordings were superior to the best reverbs of the day. As one of the first owners of a Sony 777 verb I knew that old school was about to become somewhat less cool.

The day I left my job was the day I listened to a DIY DCFC recording that had drum sounds that I knew could never be duplicated with available verbs.

I spent three years in my home developing a verb which could match a simple drum kit in a barn or similar.

This is the three years that Lexicon would not pay for. You can buy into advancing the art or you can buy into Harmon's "keep the brand alive" logic in order to sell dashboard electronics for the mother ship.

Did you know that Rolls Royce sports Lexicon dashboard stereo? So...



-Casey
I've read some pathetic pontification but this one wins for the month. Maybe the season. At least Lexicon doesn't swarm to each and every Bricasti thread, talking smack and drumming up business for themselves. The M7 might be the breath of god (I wouldn't know as I've refused to buy one after reading a similar previous bipolar outburst), but it's no justification for this kind of libelous drool. There should be a simple test which prevents posting on GS until sobered.
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#26
22nd June 2011
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Ah yes more of the same. (snooze) within seconds of my post.

Please tell me where you disagree??? What exactly is Libelous? I don't recall you being there.

This is truth, recalling a time in my life, how is that "smack"?



-Casey
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#27
22nd June 2011
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Sorry, I won't be suckered into another of these downward spirals that have nothing to do with me. I call things EXACTLY as I see them, never passive about anything, never receiving compensation of any kind for my words. Someone might disagree with my opinions but they cannot disagree with the principles upon which those opinions are based and expressed. If someone wreaks of bias and I smell it, I call it out. That's meant to be a service to those who don't know what's truly spinning behind the dashboard. Some people don't like cops. Hey, that's cool, but they (and I) aren't going to stop blowing the whistle on bullshit.

The above shot at Lexicon was cheap and far beneath any professional, especially a manufacturer. Yep, that's my opinion, there it remains, and here it is in print. Though I have to say it's further distaste to spray insults and asinine personal attacks and accusations in my direction. I don't know what's driving this but I want no part of it.
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#28
22nd June 2011
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Quote:
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Though I have to say it's further distaste to spray insults and asinine personal attacks and accusations in my direction. I don't know what's driving this but I want no part of it.
I think what's driving it is that you laid it on Casey. He wasn't attacking anyone personally--god knows there's not really much of a person behind the Lexicon brand. You made it personal.

Although in fairness to Lexicon, they did give me a free plug-in suite after I convinced them that they had sold me a PCM 96 under false pretenses. But if they are still selling that box with all the promised firewire BS then they deserve to be spanked.

-R
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22nd June 2011
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So let's take a look at the Lexicon website and look at the advertised features of the PCM 96
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Two channels XLR analog I/O
Two channels XLR digital AES/EBU I/O
Four channels streaming FireWire
Seamless automation and control via Ethernet or Firewire
32-bit floating point processing
Sample rates up to 96 kHz
____________________________________

Note that without qualification they are still advertising this as a four channel box with Firewire implementation. The word "seamless" is especially piquant. It has been established here, and feel free to search the threads that bear me out, that the four channel firewire implementation works in only some instances, and if it doesn't work for you, well too bad, there's nothing you can do, even though you've paid for that feature.

Now, to appreciate Casey's ire, here's a box that stands in direct competition to the Bricasti M7, but allegedly trumping it because it claims to be able to produce two reverb engines via firewire rather than the one that the Bricasti provides.

Lexicon should either take the PCM 96 off the market or change the features description. Of course, if they change the features description it's no different from the PCM 92 at half the price.

If I were Casey I'd be pissed, and it's about time we heard him call bullshit on the whole affair.

-R
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#30
22nd June 2011
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Thanks for the perspective, R, though I don't see it that way.

This isn't something I'm going to dive into it with any Bricasti owners/fans. It's just too easy for fans to juxtapose their excitement about a product onto the product's makers, blurring the lines of the things their supporting. This isn't an issue of any product, though, as I expected, it's steering in that direction. Maybe later, when heads clear, if the goal becomes positive or meant to be progressive then I'd be happy to join in.

About the topic, I've had both headaches and successes with my 96 in FW mode (only successes in analog). Currently, it's working as advertised, though I've switched to the plugin and couldn't be happier with it.
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