Suggestions for top ten best recorded modern Jazz LPs

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by jcc449

the mixing engineer mentioned that he used full tube vocal chain for Rod.
and the Neumann U67 tube was the mic.

To be honest, I thought you joking about the Rod Stewart albums. I really don't like that way they sound at all, and I worked on a couple!

Rod probably did use a 67 though.

Steve

[Accurate]

Originally Posted by andyspiller

The Scratch your Ass and Belch School has it's place at the frontline trenches in the "Art of Music" IMHO, however I like melody, and melodic extension;

Somehow I knew this comment was coming as soon as we started talking about music that was pushing the envelope a bit. It reminds me of the people who called Coltrane "anti-jazz" in the 60s...

[andyspiller]

Originally Posted by Accurate

Somehow I knew this comment was coming as soon as we started talking about music that was pushing the envelope a bit. It reminds me of the people who called Coltrane "anti-jazz" in the 60s...

Well it was actually a homage/steal to/from from David Niven's biography "Bring On the Empty Horses", referring to Lee Strasberg's Method Acting Techniques as critiqued by Humphrey Bogart - perhaps I should have made that clear, along with my enjoyment of doing a Horace Silver Cover in the mid 1990s, and witnessing a Dill Katz experimental Fusion Band at the 1982 Milton Keynes Jazz Festival. I also like Zappa. A Lot. And Alison Krauss.

I think my main point was replying to Capn's assertion that Chick Corea and others had somehow "sold out" or were taking it easy somehow. Sorry for any offense.

You don't know me. I'm the guy who invented the Joke "How many Musicians does it take to change a light bulb?" (Answer "I'll have to check with the Union first") so I'll try not to take your suggestion that I am some kind of Fascist, musically speaking, too personally.

Actually on second thoughts............

From Coltrane's Biographry review of 1999

"AFTER A LOVE SUPREME, Coltrane went further than his bandmates would follow. His music became even more exploratory, dropping the rhythmic pulse that had structured even his most wayward previous ventures. Elvin Jones and McCoy Tyner departed the fold; Coltrane began bridging out to a new generation of free jazzers-Pharaoh Sanders, Archie Shepp, Rashied Ali, his new wife Alice Coltrane-that he had inspired. Coltrane's critics were not far off when they said that his twenty-minute solos sounded like a musician practicing with himself: his style had always represented the thrills and the perils of autodidacticism."

Where does one draw the line between innovation and self-indulgence?

The expansion of Musical boundaries is essential. In my day to day earning, I am tasked with replicating just about any musical style imaginable, and I look forward one day to being requested to dissect and reconstruct "Giant Steps" or "In Pursuit of the 27th Man" just as soon as it becomes mainstream enough for me to be asked.

Peace.

[AWinter]

This has been an interesting conversation: thank you. I am a jazz newbie and have a whole slew o' new albums/artists to check out based on the recommendations here.

A few of the artists/band members mentioned in this thread - Herbie Hancock, Brian Blade, Jon Cowherd - are playing a tribute concert to Joni Mitchell at the Hollywood Bowl, in case anyone here is in So Cal (I imagine a few of you are...). I work with the Bowl on occasion, but ponied up and bought my tix to this one. Should be pretty great. More info: Joni

[Accurate]

Originally Posted by andyspiller

I think my main point was replying to Capn's assertion that Chick Corea and others had somehow "sold out" or were taking it easy somehow. Sorry for any offense.

You don't know me. I'm the guy who invented the Joke "How many Musicians does it take to change a light bulb?" (Answer "I'll have to check with the Union first") so I'll try not to take your suggestion that I am some kind of Fascist, musically speaking, too personally.

Hey Andy, no offense intended or taken. I was just struck by your comment as a lot of people are quick to dismiss more experimental or exploratory music as lacking melody, theme, direction, etc. If you check out the music of the AACM or Ken Vandermark, you'll hear that this is not the case, it's just that they go further out than say Chick Corea (who I like very much, btw.). They also organize their music based on other parameters at times, such as texture, timbre, density, etc. so in the tradition of the music they are building upon what their predecessors created.

I don't think innovation and self-indulgence have anything to do with each other. You can have very self-indulgent music that's not innovative at all and innovative music that's not self-indulgent. It has more to do with whether or not you have something to say musically.

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by andyspiller

Well it was actually a homage/steal to/from from David Niven's biography "Bring On the Empty Horses", referring to Lee Strasberg's Method Acting Techniques as critiqued by Humphrey Bogart - perhaps I should have made that clear, along with my enjoyment of doing a Horace Silver Cover in the mid 1990s, and witnessing a Dill Katz experimental Fusion Band at the 1982 Milton Keynes Jazz Festival. I also like Zappa. A Lot. And Alison Krauss.

I think my main point was replying to Capn's assertion that Chick Corea and others had somehow "sold out" or were taking it easy somehow. Sorry for any offense.

You don't know me. I'm the guy who invented the Joke "How many Musicians does it take to change a light bulb?" (Answer "I'll have to check with the Union first") so I'll try not to take your suggestion that I am some kind of Fascist, musically speaking, too personally.

Actually on second thoughts............

From Coltrane's Biographry review of 1999

"AFTER A LOVE SUPREME, Coltrane went further than his bandmates would follow. His music became even more exploratory, dropping the rhythmic pulse that had structured even his most wayward previous ventures. Elvin Jones and McCoy Tyner departed the fold; Coltrane began bridging out to a new generation of free jazzers-Pharaoh Sanders, Archie Shepp, Rashied Ali, his new wife Alice Coltrane-that he had inspired. Coltrane's critics were not far off when they said that his twenty-minute solos sounded like a musician practicing with himself: his style had always represented the thrills and the perils of autodidacticism."

Where does one draw the line between innovation and self-indulgence?

The expansion of Musical boundaries is essential. In my day to day earning, I am tasked with replicating just about any musical style imaginable, and I look forward one day to being requested to dissect and reconstruct "Giant Steps" or "In Pursuit of the 27th Man" just as soon as it becomes mainstream enough for me to be asked.

Peace.

Chick has not sold out, he has CHOSE to play the music he does now. It just happens to be safe, and maybe thats what he likes. I find it disposable. The Coltrane arc is the perfect example of art over commerce. I think Alice fit way better than Mccoy would have on those last records. Elvin is a "better" drummer than Rashied Ali, but Rashied fits better in the context of those later records. And I will bet my life that in twenty years people will still talk about "Interstellar Space" in a hushed reverence that Chick's records will not. There is a lot of long winded blowing on some later Coltrane records, but "Stellar Regions" is a document of a man searching with fellow seekers a new kind of collective vision. If you take a lot of chances, a lot of musical risk, there is going to be some rough patches. If you go with what you know is easy, what comes with no struggle, you are more likely to create a more polished expression, it's just one that probably won't burn real as new.

Self indulgence? What strong musical vision does not ride that crest? Bartok's string quartets are self indulgent, but aint NOBODY on gearsluts ever going to come anywhere near it. Beethoven's Grosse Fugue was rejected by his publisher as too out there. Good luck topping that self indulgence. Playing safe music that you know will sell is just as self indulgent, if not more. ANY VISION THATS WORTH ANYTHING FU*KING REAL is self indulgent. Van Gough, Shostakovitch, Coltrane, Bukowski, Raymond Carver, Xenakis, Morton Feldman, Giacometti, Schiele, Schnittke, Francis Bacon, William Burroughs, etcccccccc what art that is important does not take risks?

Mainstream? Ain't ever gonna float any magic on that body of water.

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by Accurate

I don't think innovation and self-indulgence have anything to do with each other. You can have very self-indulgent music that's not innovative at all and innovative music that's not self-indulgent. It has more to do with whether or not you have something to say musically.

Indeed.

[capnreverb]

Rod Stewart really f*cking sucks. Sorry, it's just a fact.

[Jack Luminous]

Erik Truffaz - Bending Now Corners

[IMG]******//fr.miomusik.com/eric_truffaz/bending_new_corners_CD_large.jpg[/IMG]

Great sounding record !

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by capnreverb

Rod Stewart really f*cking sucks. Sorry, it's just a fact.

hey Capn and Steve, it's a bit off topic,
what do you guys think about Foo Fighters' sound?

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by jcc449

hey Capn and Steve, it's a bit off topic,
what do you guys think about Foo Fighters' sound?

Sound, as in how do I like the production? Or as in do I like the band?

When they come on the radio I don't reach right away to turn it off, and I really liked a song here and there, but I can say that for a lot of bands/performers for almost every genre of music. They are pop music. They are not going to change the order of current things like Radiohead or Nirvana, but I don't think thats what Dave Grohl is after.

Nothing has ever stood out to me in terms of production, but that's not actually a bad thing. Sounds good on the radio and that's the purpose.

[jcc449]

but do you like the recording /mixing style of Nirvana , Radiohead or Foo Fighters? Not asking about their composition ideas. just the recording/mixing direction.

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by jcc449

but do you like the recording /mixing style of Nirvana , Radiohead or Foo Fighters? Not asking about their composition ideas. just the recording/mixing direction.

Nirvana is a trick question. Bleach, Nevermind, and In Utero are three very different LP's. Nevermind has more of the pop appeal in terms of studio trickery that is shared by the Foo Fighters. In Utero has the more raw "Shellac" sound that I really like. Bleach is a cool baby picture. They all have their cool qualities.

Radiohead has gone through a lot of album recording styles as well. They are not a band I listen to a lot, I'm not a fan of the singers voice, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for their recordings. They way they use the studio as an instrument is very close to my personal aesthetic, and they get hella cool sounds. They take risks and and are not complacent. Top notch in all respects in terms of production.

Foo Fighters production is super professional, just like any other well off pop band in the world. Im not a fan of top 40 country, but all that stuff is so well recorded that you barely notice the nuts and bolts of it's creation. Those guys in Nashville are geniuses, even though I don't much care for the product. Foo Fighters are in the same bag to me. The studio is the vehicle of the song, not the guiding force. The don't have a "sound" like Steve Albini, Radiohead, etc. They are designed for the friendly radio.

Be fun if Rudy Van Gelder recorded all three so we could see how it ended up sounding.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by capnreverb

Nirvana is a trick question. Bleach, Nevermind, and In Utero are three very different LP's. Nevermind has more of the pop appeal in terms of studio trickery that is shared by the Foo Fighters. In Utero has the more raw "Shellac" sound that I really like. Bleach is a cool baby picture. They all have their cool qualities.

Radiohead has gone through a lot of album recording styles as well. They are not a band I listen to a lot, I'm not a fan of the singers voice, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for their recordings. They way they use the studio as an instrument is very close to my personal aesthetic, and they get hella cool sounds. They take risks and and are not complacent. Top notch in all respects in terms of production.

Foo Fighters production is super professional, just like any other well off pop band in the world. Im not a fan of top 40 country, but all that stuff is so well recorded that you barely notice the nuts and bolts of it's creation. Those guys in Nashville are geniuses, even though I don't much care for the product. Foo Fighters are in the same bag to me. The studio is the vehicle of the song, not the guiding force. The don't have a "sound" like Steve Albini, Radiohead, etc. They are designed for the friendly radio.

Be fun if Rudy Van Gelder recorded all three so we could see how it ended up sounding.

that explains why you won't like Rod. you are heading the idea of "new-sound". that's very opposite of what Rod is about. especially, if you don't like the pop sound, you would hate Rod even more for that. Rod would be as bad as George Michael or Kenny G to you.

[jakas]

Hi, guys! I'm one of the Recording engineers that works with ECM. In my experience, records that sounds really well are where there is high quality music, played very well in a good acoustics spaces. Not because I recorded them but these albums sound really fantastic: Norma Winstone Trio last two albums, Amina Alaoui, Bobo Stenson trio, Anuar Brahem last album. These Are my preferite but there are many more. Recording with ECM is a wonderfull experience where technology helps the work flow but where music, artists and soul Are the very important things.

[NoisyNarrowBand]

the last few jazz records that both musically and sonically rocked my world were:

esbjörn svensson trio: leucocyte (rip!)

weasel walter septet - invasion (amazing record - intense!!)

lucas niggli zoom - rough ride (mikro-tonal free improv rock'n'roll)

power tools - stange island (the only frisell disk I digg - deep!)

honorable mention - the ecm remixes by ricardo villalobos und max loderbauer - "re: ECM"

you also want to check: HEAVY METAL BE-BOP

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by jcc449

that explains why you won't like Rod. you are heading the idea of "new-sound". that's very opposite of what Rod is about. especially, if you don't like the pop sound, you would hate Rod even more for that. Rod would be as bad as George Michael or Kenny G to you.

Ok I'll bite.

I also don't really understand the comparison between Rod Stewart and Foo Fighters. Do I like the Foo's records? Yes I do. But they have nothing to do production wise or sonically with Rod's records.

I don't like Rod's "standards" albums for a couple of reasons. And let me be clear up front, I have worked on a couple of them, and know a lot of the people who have done the others. First is Rod's vocal performance, uninspired and boring in my opinion. This is just not his thing, and it sounds like it. Second, are the boring arrangements. This has NOTHING to do with the credited arrangers on the records. They are all very good at what they do, and a most are friends of mine! Most of the arrangement direction comes directly from Clive. If Clive doesn't like it, it gets changed, and he doesn't like a lot of what I believe makes a good arrangement. Anything "hip" or "jazzy" gets axed almost before it gets recorded. My last comment on Rod's albums is the sound. Once again, there are a lot of very good engineers and mixers working on these records, and once again they are held to the tastes of one person. You mix it how Clive likes it, and Clive likes it to sound different than I do.

I work on a lot of big band, jazz, standards, what ever you want to call it, and I just don't like Rod's. There's plenty of good records out there with these same songs on them, I'd rather listen to those.

You asked.

Steve

[Accurate]

Originally Posted by NoisyNarrowBand

the last few jazz records that both musically and sonically rocked my world were:

esbjörn svensson trio: leucocyte (rip!)

weasel walter septet - invasion (amazing record - intense!!)

lucas niggli zoom - rough ride (mikro-tonal free improv rock'n'roll)

power tools - stange island (the only frisell disk I digg - deep!)

honorable mention - the ecm remixes by ricardo villalobos und max loderbauer - "re: ECM"

you also want to check: HEAVY METAL BE-BOP

Thanks for the awesome suggestions, and for getting this thread back on track...

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by jakas

Hi, guys! I'm one of the Recording engineers that works with ECM. In my experience, records that sounds really well are where there is high quality music, played very well in a good acoustics spaces. Not because I recorded them but these albums sound really fantastic: Norma Winstone Trio last two albums, Amina Alaoui, Bobo Stenson trio, Anuar Brahem last album. These Are my preferite but there are many more. Recording with ECM is a wonderfull experience where technology helps the work flow but where music, artists and soul Are the very important things.

As someone who works on the ECM recordings, how do you like the ECM sound as compared to your guys avant garde brothers HAThut/HATart? Not necessarily the style of music, but the style of the actual recordings? How much of the "sound" is dictated/expected from Manfred Eicher? How much of that magical ecm sound is natural and how much is studio created reverb?

Thanks, and much props to you.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by dannygold

I don't listen to ton of modern (say last 20 years) Jazz

Originally Posted by binarymilton

What do you mean by modern?

Call this a long shot, but I think the OP meant "in the last 20 years".







An album that immediately comes to mind -- which, now that I think about it, might be slightly older than 20 years...think it's from around 1989 -- is the album I Can't Put My Finger On It by Miniature (a trio of Tim Berne, Hank Roberts, & Joey Baron). It was recorded & mixed by Ron St. Germaine, and (independent of the farkin' awesome music on it) it just sounds fantastic.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by NoisyNarrowBand

power tools - stange island (the only frisell disk I digg - deep!)

Do you mean Strange Meeting, the original Power Tools debut album from 1986? If so....YES. Amazing record. One of the best albums ever made imho. Not just one of the best jazz albums ever made; seriously, one of the best albums period.

And if you didn't mean Strange Meeting I wanna know more about this "strange island"!