Brauner VM1 vs Neumann M 149

[ripper]

Hi
I own a VM1 several vintage Neumann and ribbon mics and the guy i lease studio space to upstairs owns a M149. yesterday we lined up the soundeluxe U47 copy and their M49 copy (demoing them for a dealer) and the VM1 and a Neumann/Gefell CMV563 from the 1950's.

all went into the MCI 500 pre's with no compression. we tested them with a male vocalist w/ a strong, smooth "pop" voice (sometimes a bit Bono-ish or Plant-ish and the louder songs).

the old Neumann and the VM1 where hands down winners. the M49 copy and the M149 came last. i've had the m149 in several line-ips like this now and it always finishes towards last.

to all ears present, it sounds boxy and with hyped low-end (i love it a few feet in front of a kick drum, slight off-axis... the only thing i ever use it for... actually i use it on the low speaker on leslie cabinets as well for the same hyped- low end reason).

the brauner is a FAR superior microphone! much more openess, clarity and air.
with a few singers, it can be unforgiving in the hi-mids. i've found using a pre that you cna drive a bit, adding some harmonic content can help in this regard and can overall make the mic go from pristine and totally clean (it's natural sound) to more of a vintage sound. the pre i like for this is the Chandler TG. really a nice, flexible match-up.

from what i've gathered, the great river is very clean and sounds great. but i wonder if that's all it does. check w/ threads or users to find this out.

with the VM1, matching it with a pre that can etither be clean or coloured, IMO, gives you a whole array of great vocal possibilities.

good luck!

[ripper]

just noticed you live in eastern europe. i picked up my pair of CMV 563's there and i use them on vocs all the time. it's a toss-up between them and the VM1 on many singers, depending on what style i want. i found these CMV's in the Czech Republic while there. maybe you can find a large capsule vintage Neumann geffell for less $ tham a VM1.. they are truly wonderful mics!

[wwittman]

I think that you probably could use a better mic pre... but either way i would sell the M149 (which simply is not that great sounding a mic) and buy something that sounds BETTER.

A VM-1 is a great mic but probably also not your only choice, as has been pointed out.

but given that simple choice, then YES, sell the M149 and replace it.

[DrC:Drive]

I have both, in fact i have a Brauner VMA which allows you to switch from the VM1 mode to a vintage VMA mode with more warmth in the mids. The VM1 is much superior to the M149, it has more clarity and a better top end. It hass transformed my recordings of voice elec and acoustic guitar. the M 149 suits some vocalists and is good on brass and bass drums. Keep it if you can as ther may be something uyou can use it on. The VMA rocks

[blaugruen7]

less ismore,
what does for you the horch more than the brauner?
why do you choose it?

[theother]

Did a shootout with the Neumann M49, Brauner and Gefell UM75.

I didn't like the Brauner at all. The UM75 was a superb mic with plenty of air.
I wouldn't trade my M49 in for it, but it's high on my wish-list of mics.

The M149 I had before the M49 for many years. The M149 is just an inferior mic in every aspect to the classic M49. Just sounds like a cold, lifeless and sterile version of the M49.

The Horch didn't do anything for me. But I'm not a huge fans of U47 on my voice either.

It's always a question of finding the right mic for the right singer. Which makes asking for advice online almost pointless...

[squeegybug]

My shootouts were Soundelux E49, E47, U195, ifet7, Gefell M930, Brauner Phantom C, Sony C48, M 149, plus some more. I kept C48 and M149. I find the 149 to have an open sound, with a clear and smooth treble that isn't overdone. I use it a lot on female singers and baritones. It is not my favorite for acoustic strings, but can work, it does have some presence in the midrange. But often a lyrical, musical sound.

Here's a thing I like about the 149 -- it has *depth*. It captures all around the source, and brings back a little larger than life, almost "romantic", sound, but without being all hyped. In my experience it needs some time practicing with patterns, filters, and placement (like all mics of course, but maybe more than some) to get full benefit.

I don't care for dramatic hyped mics, just a solid pleasant tone, so that's where I'm coming from. And no matter where you mention the M149 you will hear the refrain, "but it's not an M49".

I haven't used that SPL preamp, I run the M 149 into Gordons and it does fine.

Steve

[theother]

The M149 isn't a bad mic, but the M49 is everything the M149 is and much more.

So is the UM75 Gefell.

Never liked the Soundelux mics. Tested them many times against the M149 and liked the M149 better.

It's all a matter of taste.....

[john caldwell]

What's the thought on the Soundelux E47 in the comparisons mentioned above? I've been curious to see if the E47 would add anything the my vocal mic setup which includes M149, Elux 251, Gefell UM92S and Beyer MC740.

How would you you rank and describe the Soundelux E47 here?

John-

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by john caldwell

What's the thought on the Soundelux E47 in the comparisons mentioned above?

John,
I can only speak for what I found, I didn't live with the E47 for a great amount of time. At that time I was mainly looking for something for some particular female singers, to replace my 195. The 47 just didn't match up, and it didn't work that well for me on the male singers I tried either. It was a pretty forward sound, a little harsh even in some cases. And I did try with several different preamps and patterns. FWIW.

I can't really compare to the other mics you own, seems like they are good ones. If anything, the e47 might indeed be a contrast and might work well for you, from the recordings I've heard of some of those. But I am not really interested in Soundelux products anymore, my personal experience is the Gefell, Neumann, Sony, Brauner, etc. are just better quality and value, and that is a separate subject.

BTW @ theother -- I agree the M49 is likely everything the M149 is and much more... including more $

Steve

[rwhitney]

For those who haven't used one, here's some recordings done using only the M149. The piano solo is raw (recorded last night).

[john caldwell]

Thanks, Steve, for your thoughts on the E47.

Best,

John-

[blue_scorpion]

"I LOVE THE WAY THIS MICROPHONE FEELS THE WAY I'M SINGING INTO IT" -Seal.

This was the phraze that made me buy the M149, 10 years ago, when I've read it in Mix Magazine. Here in Romania, we don't have musical stores where we can actualy TEST or buy audio gear; so, when we read some phraze like this one or things YOU guys say, we make the purchase blindly. That's it. Andd the order will also be placed to a musical store in USA (Mercenary, Vintage King, Sonic Circus, Atlas Pro...)
So, what do you think; when I'll order NEXT WEEK Aurora 16, Groove Tubes Glory Comp, Analog Summing box (NEVE 8816 or SPL Mixdream or Nicerizer 16), Apogee Big Ben, Great RIVER MEQ -1NV will I ACTUALY NOW how this gear sounds??!! NO! The ONLY THING I know about them is what I've heard from YOU!
That's why I thank you so much; and if you still can give some advices for this equipment list, I'll be the happiest and greatful person in Romania...

[rwhitney]

One last example of M149 on simple recording (both guitar & voice).

[lorenzo]

thumbsup rwhitney for those recordings .

i really like the songs a lot .

i thank you in advance if you can provide other links.

Laurent

[DrC:Drive]

Here is a short mono clip of Brauner VM1 into DW Fearn on acoustic recorded 44.1 24 bit, i am not sure it dithered correctly to this 16 bit version, but it gives a rough idea of sound. More clarity and warmth with clear top end. The Fearn might be a little "tubby" I will post some samples soon with Pendulum pre

Let me know your opinion

James

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by DrC:Drive

Here is a short mono clip of Brauner VM1 into DW Fearn on acoustic recorded 44.1 24 bit, i am not sure it dithered correctly to this 16 bit version, but it gives a rough idea of sound. More clarity and warmth with clear top end. The Fearn might be a little "tubby" I will post some samples soon with Pendulum pre

Let me know your opinion

James

To my ears a bit "overpillowed" in the bass range

[DrC:Drive]

I agree, this is the effect of Brauner into Fearn and the transformers, a little tubby, I could have got a better sound by repositioning the mike a little. Also Pendulum MDP1has transformerless outputs and the bass is less pronounced. In the track its in I am using a Fearn EQ to bring out the top end and cutting the bass. Stiull I think the warmth and the silly top end are nice!!


James

[DrC:Drive]

I think the warmth and the silly top end are nice!!


James[/QUOTE]

I meant "silky"!!!!

James

[ISedlacek]

Maybe you could try it with Pendulum. It is very clean and yet has celestial vibes without being tubey and pillowy ...

[rwhitney]

I really like the sound of the acoustic guitar/Brauner example. I wonder how that mic would work with a Daking preamp? I'd guess it'd be a great combo since the Daking is pretty bright (though not harsh in and of itself).

For further comparison, here are two acoustic guitar clips using different guitars with the M149, also with a DW Fearn for both. One clip is mono, the other stereo. I *think* they're unprocessed.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by rwhitney

I really like the sound of the acoustic guitar/Brauner example. I wonder how that mic would work with a Daking preamp? I'd guess it'd be a great combo since the Daking is pretty bright (though not harsh in and of itself).

For further comparison, here are two acoustic guitar clips using different guitars with the M149, also with a DW Fearn for both. One clip is mono, the other stereo. I *think* they're unprocessed.

The stereo sample sounds quite nice, but again, to my ears it has quite an "overtubey" mark made by Fearn ... For a moment I was considering Fearn while choosing a new preamp some time ago but now I am happy I chose Pendulum ... But, of course, YMMV

[rwhitney]

I love the Pendulum stuff. I had the ES-8 compressor for a while. Wish I could afford it all!

[DrC:Drive]

Here is a stereo file of my Takamine, recorded with Brauner VM1A in VM1 mode straight into Pendulum MDP 1A, via Apogee 8000SE into PT HD, solo guitar on Right channel had a little reverb, otherwise unprocessed apart from POWR dither to 16 bit. not so pillowy as DW Fearn and a great clear sound. Might try again with VM1A mode next time. Enjoy. The MDP 1A excels on acoustic guitar.

James

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by DrC:Drive

Here is a stereo file of my Takamine, recorded with Brauner VM1A in VM1 mode straight into Pendulum MDP 1A, via Apogee 8000SE into PT HD, solo guitar on Right channel had a little reverb, otherwise unprocessed apart from POWR dither to 16 bit. not so pillowy as DW Fearn and a great clear sound. Might try again with VM1A mode next time. Enjoy. The MDP 1A excels on acoustic guitar.

James

Oh yes, this sounds much better It would be interesting to compare Brauner with a pair of Schoeps on the same thing ...

[matucha]

Well... actually I'd prefer the Fearn (without that boom - different mic position), the pendulum track sounds like some candy, don't like that. But I think it is more about the mic position than about preamp.

[DrC:Drive]

Exactly, a lot depends on the player the position of the mike and the pre. I thinkin the first track this guitarist (not me) moved and the Brauner pointed more towards the sound hole. I used a pick and played the Pendulum track. Different feel and technique. A lot of tricks can be played like this , however the Pendulum sounds less tubby and "thinner". I did try the VMA mode which is warmer and it suited the Pendulum more. Will post if any one is interested. All depends on the track it is in also. However these tests are useful and informative and everyone has different tastes

James

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by DrC:Drive

Exactly, a lot depends on the player the position of the mike and the pre. I thinkin the first track this guitarist (not me) moved and the Brauner pointed more towards the sound hole. I used a pick and played the Pendulum track. Different feel and technique. A lot of tricks can be played like this , however the Pendulum sounds less tubby and "thinner". I did try the VMA mode which is warmer and it suited the Pendulum more. Will post if any one is interested. All depends on the track it is in also. However these tests are useful and informative and everyone has different tastes

James

Just reduce the output and increase the gain on Pendulum :-) if you want it more tubey .... I did it two days ago when someone was making vocal samples (see the Pendulum thread) and it works beautifully

[ISedlacek]

In general I would say that moving few cm with mics has often much greater effect on sound than using another mic or preamp ... One can save lot of money in this way