My Studio is looking to Buy a Control Surface

[Bguzaldo]

Abba zabba you my only friend!

[MarvelM]

Have u seen the SSL Nucleus....Would really like to get my hands on it!!!






_______________________________________________

For sale: API 8200A

[jordanvoth]

Not a control surface but I'd put an atb 32 in there. Control surfaces are kind of for show. You really don't see a lot of rooms that are based around them. If you're dead set on it, wait for the CM Labs Merlin. It's nice looking and will have monitoring facilities built in.

[Sugarnutz]

To avoid HUI you'll have to go with an Avid product. C24 at the minimum, preferably a D-Comand or D-Control. You can always get a summing solution like the Rolls or a Dangerous to keep the analog flavor. By selling the 4000 you should be golden on the new gear.

[warhead]

The Audient Zen is a basic controller, but has many facilities to track and mix analog with and makes a great centerpiece for a hybrid studio. Might be worth a gander...although as just a controller it only performs the basics (transport, moving faders).

Zen Small Format Automated Recording Console | Audient

War

[Shaman]

As long as we are talking about a pro studio
I doubt anything under a d-command with at least 24 faders
will impress clients nor will it bring you ergonomically
anywhere near to an ssl.

D-Command & D-Control have turned out in the meantime
to be very good & reliable controllers for PT
and many engineers can operate them.

You can dive deep into them if you want
but basically anyone who can operate PT on a screen
will be able to operate an ICON as well.

[MickeyMassacre]

SSL Matrix? Best looking control surface IMO

[narcoman]

PTHD ? It's obvious. D-Command. the integration and facilities opened up to you make ALL other control surfaces (with perhaps the only near competition being the Euphonix system) look very limited.

For visual appeal then a D-Control - but I have a 40 channel D-command and it's a very liberating experience. Not quite "a console" experience - but you can do proper large format mixes on one. The EQ section is very very good.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Control surfaces are kind of for show.

That's quite a statement...

Another thumbs up for the Dcommand. If you're using PTHD, they really are unmatched. There are some GREAT deals out there too...I got an older (blue) floor model and it came with the full warranty, for HALF the price of a current model. I think in the future when the current crop of hybrid analog console/DAW controlers mature there will be some really interesting and powerful options, but right now in PT land the Icon series is definitely king...

Z

[crypticglobe]

Euphonix System 5 MC is the "king of bling" for controllers. Really looks amazing. With AVID's recent acquisition of Euphonix... you can can bet that very deep integration with Pro Tool is only just around the corner.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by Bguzaldo

Hey guys, I'm an intern at a studio in Chicago and we have an SSL 4000 g series in our B room and the maintenance costs are just piling up and the only decent SSL tech we can find is expensive and ineffective and the owner is looking to switch over to a control surface.

We need something that will still give the clients a professional atmosphere and also something that will still facilitate all our outboard so were looking for something a bit more than a HUI...

Now I'm a hardcore tapehead so I'm crushed to see the 4000 go but I don't pay for the maintenance costs. We have an HD 2 system in our B room and were running Pro tools 9.Could anyone recommend me some good places to start or somethings to keep in mind when shopping controllers? Budget is flexible considering what we can get for our SSL.

Thanks,
-Barrett

How about SSL AWS 948?
It's alot cheaper and it's the newest ssl console. It can truly help you to control PTHD, logic pro or Nuendo so your console is no longer just for looking! The fader once again moves with the screen!!!
Oh ya and you can insert plugins on console!
Oh ya and...the double faders still function in aws948! So does the ssl quad compressor !

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Not a control surface but I'd put an atb 32 in there. Control surfaces are kind of for show. You really don't see a lot of rooms that are based around them. If you're dead set on it, wait for the CM Labs Merlin. It's nice looking and will have monitoring facilities built in.

Actually there are loads of major rooms built around them. Most big post and mix stages now have D-control or D-command or a Euphonix system. Yes, of course the only replace what you do on a mouse (actually not true - there are a whole load of functions not available on a mouse that PT offers) but it takes what would be a good 12 hours of automation editing on a mouse (and a lot of hand strain and annoyance) and condenses it to a couple of hours and no injury.

I'm very serious when I say I was considering giving up my job before they brought the ICON out - I was getting a lot of problems across the back of my hand. Not fun.

Control surfaces are most certainly not a gimmick - and in my case kept me working.

[Wilburguy]

+1 on the D-Command!

[Shaman]

at the considerable price difference between d-command
and d-control, which basically gives you some more pots,
better faders and some more eq/dyn. bands per channel
I would allways choose the black d-command and create a nice
looking custom desk around it - which makes a real difference
to the strange "duckfoot" idea from digi.

Here´s a nice one @paragon studios,
which btw is one of the best designed facilities I´ve ever seen.

[Bassmankr]

I doubt any control surface is going to be more impressive to clients than the 4000 desk was and given this is the "B" room you might as well get a tool that does exactly what you need it to and not worry about the "flash" factor. I'd be curious to see how this change effects the booking rates of the room given having a controller and HD2 rig at home is more common now. Will having the outboard in the room be a big enough draw because I doubt HD2 is much of a "booking factor" these days?

[narcoman]

The controller application within AWS us functional. But not in depth or really a joy to use! It's okay but it contains very few of the reasons an ICON is the top dog. The trims functions, channel grouping and fader groups are very advanced.

[narcoman]

very true. To be honest - if it's kind of to replace a 4000 (and this won't do it sonically but at least it'll have the large format routing) then Duality ? Probably too expensive though....

[jcc449]

Yes AWS is a mini 4000+ Euphonix
Icon is ....well....icon.
If I am taking AWS it must because of the ssl quad compressor and channel strip.
Thats Something u wont have in icon.
Sure you can buy massive amount of ssl rack to simulate that too...

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by jcc449

Yes AWS is a mini 4000+ Euphonix
Icon is ....well....icon.
If I am taking AWS it must because of the ssl quad compressor and channel strip.
Thats Something u wont have in icon.
Sure you can buy massive amount of ssl rack to simulate that too...

No... not like the Euphonix at ALL. The Eucon software allows you to do some seriously unbelievable stuff! Create tons of your own customized commands right on the surface. Displays ALL plug-in parameters at the touch of a button.. and all encoders are touch sensitive for automation! Create Layers of tracks in any order your can possibly imagine! Spill feature... touch the "spill" button on a group track, and it will "spill" the tracks in the group out... in order on the control surface, starting with the group fader itself. Touch it again, and you are back to where you were before.

And this is just scratching the surface. The AWS has a clunky Mackie Control driven rudimentary DAW control for faders and a few functions. :(

Huge difference! That said... the AWS is packed full of some nice analog gear.

[shortstory]

All good points made here.

We use the D-controls here and they work great for post production. For music I'd think an AWS would be more desirable although I've never used one.

Can anyone who has used an AWS talk about their experiences with the DAW controller side of things? including how it handles plug-ins and whether it really replaces the ITB/mouse aspect? Does it really replace the mouse, etc?

Thanks-

[RonT]

Originally Posted by Bguzaldo

We need something that will still give the clients a professional atmosphere and also something that will still facilitate all our outboard so were looking for something a bit more than a HUI...

Ummmm..................

SSL AWS

[TonyD]

I worked on an AWS for a couple of years, and to be honest, I was never really impressed. The analogue side of it is nice, clean, classic SSL, but the DAW control never got me going. The motorised faders feel good for automating levels, but the plug-in integration isn't anywhere near in-depth enough for me to move away from the mouse.

The AWS has basic rotaries for sends/panning and sends can be flipped down onto the faders, which is nice for automating sends. It doesn't have much more that's quick/easy/useful above and beyond that.

[Dean Landon]

I agree. The D-Command is a wonderful console. I just purchased a 24 channel version a few weeks ago. It's extremely intuitive. I think it has a great look about it too.

Anyone who says the Icon is a big mouse, obviously doesn't know what they're talking about.

Barrett- if you're looking to impress, get a 48 strip D-Control.

[jcc449]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

No... not like the Euphonix at ALL. The Eucon software allows you to do some seriously unbelievable stuff! Create tons of your own customized commands right on the surface. Displays ALL plug-in parameters at the touch of a button.. and all encoders are touch sensitive for automation! Create Layers of tracks in any order your can possibly imagine! Spill feature... touch the "spill" button on a group track, and it will "spill" the tracks in the group out... in order on the control surface, starting with the group fader itself. Touch it again, and you are back to where you were before.

And this is just scratching the surface. The AWS has a clunky Mackie Control driven rudimentary DAW control for faders and a few functions. :(

Huge difference! That said... the AWS is packed full of some nice analog gear.

When I Refer AWS to Euphonix I was talking about the accessibility through protool, Nuendo, logic pro and many others DAWs. Surely you can't do any of that on the classic 4000 or 9000 besides avid's euphonix.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

Control surfaces are kind of for show. You really don't see a lot of rooms that are based around them.

Are you serious? A huge amount of top end studios are dropping analog LFC's as they wear out and go with one of Avid's ICON's. That's what I'd recommend if the OP has the cash. It's state of the art, and really, the future of large frame control surfaces.

edit: oops. I see I wasn't the only one thinking that.....

[jcc449]

....

[jcc449]

Ya avid is the next evil empire...ssl,neve,API all in big danger.
UAD is the last hope...

[Stiff]

There really is no contest. If you're running Pro Tools nothing will come close to an ICON for mixing music.

I've heard that some are really happy with the larger Euphonix consoles since PT9 but I haven't tried it myself. IMO, it at at least appears like they're aimed for a different market than the ICON crowd.

[jindrich]

The ICON is great. Both the D-Command and the D-Control are unparalleled DAW controllers and are the closest thing there is to a LFAC while actually operating/controlling a DAW.

They are not the last word for any studio though, as they're aren't free of shortcomings.

On one side, even when they're just controllers, they DO get OBSOLETE. Let's remember the current D-Control/Command are on their second generation already, in just a few years.
On the other hand, they're overpriced. Compare an ICON to a current similar Neve/SSL. They both have the same amount of knobs, moving faders and cost about the same, but under their pretty skin, ICONs are empty, while Neve/SSL do provide a real analogue console on top of the controller side. True, the Neve/SSL controller capabilities are no by any means on the same league, but let's be honest, they are just a FIRMWARE away of becoming as good. What I mean is that they're not better controllers only because AVID doesn't allow them to be. AVID has also recently bought EuCon, so more for the monopoly.


One way or the other, in the end we must consider ALL of them as just a tool to make money, and as any tool they must be amortized within the planned time frame.

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by jindrich

On one side, even when they're just controllers, they DO get OBSOLETE. Let's remember the current D-Control/Command are on their second generation already, in just a few years.

The only thing which changed over the years is the colour
from silver to black.