Room Treatment...... Help

[mistaD]

Once again sorry for the lengthy post!

Im about to acousticaly treat my room but i was just looking for some advice before doing so. First off my listening room is 14FT L X 9FT w X 7FT h and i have my monitors(NS-10M) on a wooden shelve 6 inches from the Front wall and 3 feet away from my listening position at ear level! I have my computer monitor directly in front of me, 2 FT away from my monitors and slightly below them! The back wall is 7FT from my listening position and there is a couch covering the majority of it! I also built a vocal room 6FT 8"L x 3FT 10" W x 7FT h and its fully covered inside(every sqaure inch) by 1 inch thick egg carton foam i pciked up from Home depot a few years back(Hope thats right) Here are the upgrades im looking at making

1. 4 bass traps for the 4 corners of the room

2. Absorption foam on the front wall behind the monitors, on the ceiling half way between my listening position and the monitors, and on the sidewalls and back wall at the points of reflection determined by the mirror test!

3. Either 3 inch foam on the shelf underneath the monitors or brand new speaker stands

4. Seeing that my 17 inch monster of a computer monitor is in front of my speakers i was thinking of puting some type of material on it to deaden any refelctions or i was thinking of upgrading to a flat monitor which are suppose to be less reflective and can be put out of the way!

Are thereany suggestions or changes you think i should make from what i listed?

The problem im having is my mixes arent translating well at all.... they sound fine in here but when played on other systems they either have too much or too little bass and thin and harsh high end!

What foam would be the best and most cost effective to use and what should be the thickness in inches?

Would this stuff fit the bill? http://stores.ebay.com/Foam-Factory-of-Canada Im looking at getting the 2 inch accoustic studio wedge foam or the 2.5 inch egg carton foam! The egg carton is alot cheaper, is there any reason i shouldn't use that?

and how much foam would i order for a room of this size?

Whats the ideal size of bass traps for a room of this size?

For bass traps can you direct me to a site that has good reasonably prices ones or even better a site that shows how to build them?

Also this is a little off topic but is there any standard on vocal mic placement in a booth? Like should it be pointing towards the long wall or short wall? Is there a specific distance it should be from any paticular wall or the window? Or have i been doing it right by placing it in the sweet spot by listening through the monitors?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanx for your time guys!

[stevep]

First this a great site for what you are asking ......

John Sayers site http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php


and

Ethan winers site

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

[mltamisin]

Regarding the foam, I've bought some of their stuff. If you do order from them I would recommend the 4" b/c it will offer absorption of a greater degree and wider bandwidth. You don't need to cover your entire room. Also, if you can devise a way to float the panels around 3" off the wall it will help broadband absorption.
Your couch on the back wall should help the sound and is relatively necessary for a nice environment. Get the monitor stands so you can move them around while listening to reference CD's. Monitor placement is one of the most important things in your room. You need to be able to move them around in a bad room.
Good luck - Matt

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by stevep

First this a great site for what you are asking ......

John Sayers site http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php


and

Ethan winers site

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Thanks for the links i'll take a look at them right now!

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by mltamisin

Regarding the foam, I've bought some of their stuff. If you do order from them I would recommend the 4" b/c it will offer absorption of a greater degree and wider bandwidth. You don't need to cover your entire room. Also, if you can devise a way to float the panels around 3" off the wall it will help broadband absorption.
Your couch on the back wall should help the sound and is relatively necessary for a nice environment. Get the monitor stands so you can move them around while listening to reference CD's. Monitor placement is one of the most important things in your room. You need to be able to move them around in a bad room.
Good luck - Matt

Thanks for the reply. So i guess that rules out the 2.5 inch egg carton foam! Sorry but i dont understand what you mean by "float the panels around 3 inches off the wall? I'd appreciate it if you can help explain that to me!

Any one else have anything to contribute? Doesn't Ethan Winer post on this site?

[mltamisin]

Sorry I didn't elaborate. Floating the foam off the wall involves creating an air gap in between the foam and the wall. Look up Auralex Genesis for an ex. of a floated panel. The air gap increases the broadband absorption greatly. The gap should preferably be the same thickness as your foam. I use a 3" air gap. It's not as thick as my foam but it's as good as it's gonna get. Here's what I did. I bought some 1/2" thick 2'x4' sheets of Owens Corning rigid fiberglass 703. It's not very rigid by the way. It's a porous product that somewhat holds form. If you can't find any then go to Lowes and check out their drop ceiling tiles. They should have tiles made of rigid fiberglass with a plastic face on one side. It's classified as an acoustic grade ceiling tile. It has to be porous! Not the hard ceiling tile made of particle board crap. It's not porous! Now, take that to the backyard. Put on a respirator and some gloves and peel the plastic face off. Then, glue the foam to the fiberglass using liquid nails. Bear in mind it's not going to hold very well but well enough to not fall down. Just don't f*ck with it. Next, take some 2"x2" pieces of wood 4' long and glue 2 pieces together. Bear in mind a 2"x2" is actually 1.5"x1.5". Yeah, it's 2" when it's cut. It then dries and shrinks to 1.5". Now you have a 3" thick spacer. Let the glued stuff dry overnight. Screw some L brackets onto the sides of the wooden spacers and mount to the wall 1.5' apart using thick threaded dry wall grade screws....or find a stud....(enough with the Momma jokes). Now nail the absorptive panel to your wooden spacers using relatively small nails so you don't split the wood, but not so small so it rips through the foam. The more nails the sturdier it is. It's a pain in the ass but it works. Mine have been on the wall for 2 years now. There are alot of ways to float your panels. You could just build a wooden frame comprised of 2"x2" and glue the foam to the frame. In retrospect, that's what I should've done. The reason I like the 1/2" thick fiberglass panels is b/c you can stack them if you need to & make different thicknesses for deeper bass trapping. I did that on my back wall where the bass pooling is the worse. It helped.
Oh, get a reference CD with some bass. Play it in through the NS10's. Walk around the room. Listen for excessive bass pooling areas in the room. That's where you definitely want to float the traps off the wall. If it's in a corner get some corner bass trapping products. In the other areas like 1st reflection points you can probably get away with just slapping the stuff onto the walls. I floated all my panels cuz my room used to suck hot goat.

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by mltamisin

Sorry I didn't elaborate. Floating the foam off the wall involves creating an air gap in between the foam and the wall. Look up Auralex Genesis for an ex. of a floated panel. The air gap increases the broadband absorption greatly. The gap should preferably be the same thickness as your foam. I use a 3" air gap. It's not as thick as my foam but it's as good as it's gonna get. Here's what I did. I bought some 1/2" thick 2'x4' sheets of Owens Corning rigid fiberglass 703. It's not very rigid by the way. It's a porous product that somewhat holds form. If you can't find any then go to Lowes and check out their drop ceiling tiles. They should have tiles made of rigid fiberglass with a plastic face on one side. It's classified as an acoustic grade ceiling tile. It has to be porous! Not the hard ceiling tile made of particle board crap. It's not porous! Now, take that to the backyard. Put on a respirator and some gloves and peel the plastic face off. Then, glue the foam to the fiberglass using liquid nails. Bear in mind it's not going to hold very well but well enough to not fall down. Just don't f*ck with it. Next, take some 2"x2" pieces of wood 4' long and glue 2 pieces together. Bear in mind a 2"x2" is actually 1.5"x1.5". Yeah, it's 2" when it's cut. It then dries and shrinks to 1.5". Now you have a 3" thick spacer. Let the glued stuff dry overnight. Screw some L brackets onto the sides of the wooden spacers and mount to the wall 1.5' apart using thick threaded dry wall grade screws....or find a stud....(enough with the Momma jokes). Now nail the absorptive panel to your wooden spacers using relatively small nails so you don't split the wood, but not so small so it rips through the foam. The more nails the sturdier it is. It's a pain in the ass but it works. Mine have been on the wall for 2 years now. There are alot of ways to float your panels. You could just build a wooden frame comprised of 2"x2" and glue the foam to the frame. In retrospect, that's what I should've done. The reason I like the 1/2" thick fiberglass panels is b/c you can stack them if you need to & make different thicknesses for deeper bass trapping. I did that on my back wall where the bass pooling is the worse. It helped.
Oh, get a reference CD with some bass. Play it in through the NS10's. Walk around the room. Listen for excessive bass pooling areas in the room. That's where you definitely want to float the traps off the wall. If it's in a corner get some corner bass trapping products. In the other areas like 1st reflection points you can probably get away with just slapping the stuff onto the walls. I floated all my panels cuz my room used to suck hot goat.

Thanks for the help! So after i do this i should be good to go?

[Ethan Winer]

MD,

Sorry, I missed this first time around.

> 4 bass traps for the 4 corners of the room <

Don't forget the corners where the walls meet the ceiling. Corners where walls meet the floor are equally valid if you can do that.

> Would this stuff fit the bill? http://stores.ebay.com/Foam-Factory-of-Canada <

No, that place is a fraud. They stole the data from Auralex and claim it as their own, but their foam is nowhere near as effective. And you can do better than foam anyway.

> Whats the ideal size of bass traps for a room of this size? <

As large as possible. Really.

--Ethan

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

MD,

Sorry, I missed this first time around.

> 4 bass traps for the 4 corners of the room <

Don't forget the corners where the walls meet the ceiling. Corners where walls meet the floor are equally valid if you can do that.

> Would this stuff fit the bill? http://stores.ebay.com/Foam-Factory-of-Canada <

No, that place is a fraud. They stole the data from Auralex and claim it as their own, but their foam is nowhere near as effective. And you can do better than foam anyway.

> Whats the ideal size of bass traps for a room of this size? <

As large as possible. Really.

--Ethan

np Ethan! I was anxiously awaiting your reply! So is everything else on my list okay? And what package would you recommend from your site for a room of this size? Im looking at spending around $500 dollars but if i need to go higher i will do so because i now understand how important this is!

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

MD,

Sorry, I missed this first time around.

> 4 bass traps for the 4 corners of the room <

Don't forget the corners where the walls meet the ceiling. Corners where walls meet the floor are equally valid if you can do that.

> Would this stuff fit the bill? http://stores.ebay.com/Foam-Factory-of-Canada <

No, that place is a fraud. They stole the data from Auralex and claim it as their own, but their foam is nowhere near as effective. And you can do better than foam anyway.

> Whats the ideal size of bass traps for a room of this size? <

As large as possible. Really.

--Ethan

hmmm.... I was just on your site again and i think im a little confused, so let me run this by you!

Im assuming i would need 4 soffit traps at 7feet each for bass traps at the four corners of the room!

Then i would need 3 micro traps, 1 for the ceiling between my seating position and the monitors, and the other 2 for the first reflections on the side walls!

Now im not sure what i would use for the front wall behind the monitors and the back wall which is 7 feet away from me? Also after that would i still need to find all the reflections using the mirror method and cover those with micro traps?

Am i on the right track here?

[Ethan Winer]

MD,

> what package would you recommend from your site for a room of this size? <

It's probably better to move any discussion of specific products to email. I'm sure we can help you to get the best sound from your room for whatever budget you have. You can email me from the Contact page on our site.

--Ethan