ATR vs RMGI tape shedding - update please

[Trakworx]

I know this has been discussed before, but most of the info I can find on GS is from back in 2008.

I'm sure that both companies have been refining their formulas since then, and would like to know the experiences of tape users with the currently available tape from ATR and RMGI.

I am mostly concerned with shedding issues, as I have seen conflicting reports about both brands.

I have to decide which tape to use with my Ampex ATR 102 1/2" machine for layback mastering. The reel of ATR I am testing right now sounds great, but I have to clean the tape path frequently, far more than with the Quantegy and Emtec tape that I just ran out of. The RMGI tape that I tried a few years ago was even worse, with actual flaking.

So in 2011, which brand has made more progress in solving their shedding issues?

Thanks!

J~

[kats]

I used a batch of ATR last month without issue whatsoever. Excellent tape and very quiet. I have not used the RMGI tape but I had a conversation with someone who worked for them who said that they corrected a problem they had in earlier product. The deal was that although they were following the "recipe" correctly, they had found out that the difference in climate from where the old RMG was manufactured had a negative effect on the new product. Apparently they have addressed this issue.

[Plush]

We're using a lot of RMGI tape here and there have never been any problems.

I think that what you're mentioning is a shedding problem with a very small percentage of tape some years ago. It has never been a widespread problem.

Why do you propose that it is a system wide issue?

What you have written is a "Gearslutz fact." It is a myth promulgated as a real problem.

[kats]

Plush, I think he was pretty clear that it was just his own experience and not anything more.

Originally Posted by Trakworx

I

The reel of ATR I am testing right now sounds great, but I have to clean the tape path frequently, far more than with the Quantegy and Emtec tape that I just ran out of.

J~

Now by "frequently", how frequently do you mean? With the ATR tape you have to understand that it's very high density compared to it's backing, so there will always be a bit of residue. I usually give my machine a wipe after each reel. It's not much residue, but it's there. If it is excessive, it could be the tape, but it could also be your tensions on the machine.

[CatFace]

Been using the RMGI stuff a lot lately.

Had a few problems with the high level GP900 - slight shedding + trouble with lining up machine on a few reels (changed to diff reels and problem vanished)
Fluctuating level + slight shedding.
This was on the 1/2"

However, the GP911 has been wonderful both sonically and performance wise.
For both the 1/2" and 2".
Recommended!

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by kats

I used a batch of ATR last month without issue whatsoever. Excellent tape and very quiet. I have not used the RMGI tape but I had a conversation with someone who worked for them who said that they corrected a problem they had in earlier product. The deal was that although they were following the "recipe" correctly, they had found out that the difference in climate from where the old RMG was manufactured had a negative effect on the new product. Apparently they have addressed this issue.

Thanks. Yes, I've heard that RMGI has made improvements since the early days, hence this thread seeking updated info. Still, I can find plenty of complaints about both brands. Actually, an RMGI rep stopped by after hearing about my problems. He promised to send some free reels but they never came. After that I never tried RMGI again, but maybe now things are better... ?

J~

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by Plush

We're using a lot of RMGI tape here and there have never been any problems.

I think that what you're mentioning is a shedding problem with a very small percentage of tape some years ago. It has never been a widespread problem.

Why do you propose that it is a system wide issue?

What you have written is a "Gearslutz fact." It is a myth promulgated as a real problem.

I'm not proposing anything. I'm asking a question.

You could have simply answered it.

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by kats

Now by "frequently", how frequently do you mean? With the ATR tape you have to understand that it's very high density compared to it's backing, so there will always be a bit of residue. I usually give my machine a wipe after each reel. It's not much residue, but it's there. If it is excessive, it could be the tape, but it could also be your tensions on the machine.

A cleaning after each pass yields 1 black Q tip with the reel of ATR I'm using now.

Recently a client brought in several reels of ATR for mastering and some were unusable because he hadn't cleaned his machine frequently enough during mixdown. The highs were diminished too much so we went with his digital back ups. Those reels were dirtying my machine more than my current reel is.

I just had a tech. check my machine yesterday. The tension and transport all passed with flying colors.

Thanks for sharing your experience,

J~

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by CatFace

Been using the RMGI stuff a lot lately.

Had a few problems with the high level GP900 - slight shedding + trouble with lining up machine on a few reels (changed to diff reels and problem vanished)
Fluctuating level + slight shedding.
This was on the 1/2"

However, the GP911 has been wonderful both sonically and performance wise.
For both the 1/2" and 2".
Recommended!

Thanks, maybe I'll try a reel of 911 and see how that holds up.

J~

[thebunker]

Had no problems with ATR 1/4' or 2" over here. Had some problems with RMG a few years ago so stopped using it. Really digging how the ATR sounds so we're sticking with that as much as possible.

[espen askelad]

Using RMG 911 here without complaint.

[Brad McGowan]

Hey Justin,

I've had nothing but good experience with the ATR tape I've been using with my Studer 2-track. A couple years ago there were some issues with some early batches, but those were sorted out. Sonically I don't think it gets better than the ATR tape for my tastes.

Brad

[Drumsound]

I haven't had a single issue with ATR 1/4" tape. I do have one reel of 2" that clients brought with them in the fall (brand new), and it leaves the capstan dirty as all hell. I went through 5 q-tips on the ceramic. It sounds a little weird on rewind, but the audio sounds good. The used GP9 that other clients are using are fine.

[gpiccolini]

I use RMG 911 and 900
Both sound incredible. Never had shedding problems with my M15.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by Trakworx

I'm not proposing anything. I'm asking a question.

You could have simply answered it.

Of course you were proposing that the tapes shed and flake. Otherwise why would you say in your second sentence that, "I'm sure that both companies have been refining their formulas since then. . ."

That certainly implies that you believe what was written on GS about RMGI shedding and that it needed to be corrected. You based your comment on a Gearslutz Fact.

There's not now nor has there ever been very much bad tape out there.

[kats]

Plush, your wrong.

[Trakworx]

Originally Posted by Plush

Of course you were proposing that the tapes shed and flake. Otherwise why would you say in your second sentence that, "I'm sure that both companies have been refining their formulas since then. . ."

That certainly implies that you believe what was written on GS about RMGI shedding and that it needed to be corrected. You based your comment on a Gearslutz Fact.

There's not now nor has there ever been very much bad tape out there.

Plush, you are way off base about what I said and why. I have my own actual experience with shedding tape from both companies, and lack of follow through by RMGI on replacing the tape. I clearly stated that "I have seen conflicting reports about both brands". What I have seen written on GS only confirms my own experience - that there have been shedding problems. So asking for updated info on current tape by both manufacturers is truly the most fair thing I could think of doing. If you read the thread you will see that I even said that I may give RMGI 911 a try.

You, on the other hand, with your defensive response to my question, are flagrantly displaying your personal agenda on GS for all to see. Your obvious promotion of RMGI tape serves to negate your opinion as being "over-biased" .

I trust that you will continue to serve the GS community as you have been since 2009 by alerting us every time you order another case of RMGI tape.

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/maste...rmgi-tape.html

We are all so grateful for that crucial information.

Thankyasomuch!

[Trakworx]

Thanks to all of you who have shared your experience! It would seem from your positive reports that I and some of my clients have been repeatedly unlucky when it comes to new tape. I will give both ATR and RMGI another try. Failing that, I'll look for one-pass used Quantegy or Emtec reels. I never had shedding problems with those brands on my machines.

Cheers,

J~

[Ricey]

i like the sound RMG 911 a lot - but after shedding problems, i switched to ATR and got accustomed to hi-fi living. i went back to RMG once, years later, thinking they solved the problem, only to get punked by another reel.

recently(years later) i used 911 again and it didn't shed(and sounds great).

i'm going to try RMG again(i bpought a box of 1/4"), because the ATR is a little too strong for my Otari MX5050 - sounds amazing but the machine saturates before the tape does.

my dream is to get an ATR 104 down to brasil and go back to their tape : )

[Teddy Ray]

No shedding with RMGI here in many, many takes...thumbsup

[beats workin']

I've been using ATR 1/2" for a good while and have never had a shedding problem. Great sounding tape as well.
David

[Plush]

Oh well--I don't apologize for being a backer of RMGI, now that's for sure. It's super high quality tape. So you'll fail at shaming me on that count.

Yes and I do alert tape freaks whenever I order a new case or 10 cases as I recently ordered. I post about this in a thread created specifically for these posts. There is room for all kinds of freaks on GS.

Talking as if one can expect the tape to shed is a bogus contention. Anyone from the real tape era knows this. Despite the facts and despite the real story, shedding is written about with glee here on GS.

I repeat my contention--there just isn't that much bad tape out there. Most of the tape (99 out of 100 reels) runs great.

Most machines will run very well set up for SM911. Only modern machines with Ferrari electronics can take full advantage of +9 and ?above? tapes.

[Deuce 225]

I have recorded with both of these tapes recently with great results and won't hesitate to do so again. When I had issues with either brand, it was very "lot" specific and both manufacturers replaced the tape including shipping. Also want to say the tape business is a small community and both Mike Spitz and John French are class acts.

Best,
Tim Cochran

[Overdrive]

I had so many sticky shed issues with either SM900 and SM911 from RMGI that I gave up on them, never to look back.
Switched to ATR and now am waiting for a batch sample from Zonal who seem to slowly make their way into the market! I'll post back with the results of that. Didn't have any issue with the ATR tape, easy to handle, great sound. A bit pricey though.

[bdmctear]

We're having real problems with using new 1/4 inch tape for mix down. After one pass, it seems we're battling drop out after drop out. Quantegy GP9 was never like this for us. It's a major problem for us right now.

[Jeancab]

With which tape model exactly do you have these issues ?

[romeojesus]

I am using rmgi sm911 on my aeg/telefunken m20 and experienced no problems, yet

[bdmctear]

Originally Posted by Jeancab

With which tape model exactly do you have these issues ?

ATR 1/4 in. 2 different tape machines, even. Granted, we are using it multiple passes, thought that was never a problem before. I'm sad Quantegy seems to only sell 1/2 inch and 2 inch.

[brewery]

i never joined this ongoing discussion before because it seemed a bit pointless (rmg customer service is great and they will replace an tape that has issues for you), but saying that the shedding is 'gearslutz hype' is just plain wrong.

i keep buying rmg, mainly because atr is really hard to come by for a reasonable price in europe, and in the last years, the quality was always solid.

but there was definitely a time where i had a few different batches of rmg that shed like crazy. tones would get really wonky instantly (and not even just hi freq), and after running it for 20 seconds there was brown gunk on everything in the tape path.

i had all those reels replaced without any problems.

at the same time, i keep hearing good things about atr, from people i know & respect way more than strangers on the internet, so i'm sure it's great tape.

i just don't get why people act like the choice of tape brand decides whether you're a good person or not..

there are only 2 manufacturers left, and we should be grateful they're still out there. just find out which one suits you better and start recording.

[vincentvangogo]

Originally Posted by bdmctear

ATR 1/4 in. 2 different tape machines, even. Granted, we are using it multiple passes, thought that was never a problem before. I'm sad Quantegy seems to only sell 1/2 inch and 2 inch.

Quantegy wasn't selling 1/2" the last time I tried to get some.