3M M79 16 track tape recorder

denial · 21st February 2006, 01:46 PM

I've managed to pick up one of these machines and while it is pulling tape, it does need some work. My understanding is that parts are somewhat scarce and they can require a lot of maintenance to keep running.

My question relates to whether it's worth spending the money on a tech to bring it back to performance level or sell it off as parts. As a 16 track machine, would the M79 offer anything sonically over a 24 track Studer A800. Is it worth the trouble or will it just be a headache. I have a tech locally that can fix and maintain it.

Anyone with any experience?

not_so_new · 21st February 2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denial

I've managed to pick up one of these machines and while it is pulling tape, it does need some work. My understanding is that parts are somewhat scarce and they can require a lot of maintenance to keep running.

My question relates to whether it's worth spending the money on a tech to bring it back to performance level or sell it off as parts. As a 16 track machine, would the M79 offer anything sonically over a 24 track Studer A800. Is it worth the trouble or will it just be a headache. I have a tech locally that can fix and maintain it.

Anyone with any experience?

In the interest of full disclosure, before I say anything I am going to say that I have 24 track M79 for sale that needs work as well. Just to be clear about that before hand so you don't think I am pimping with my reply below.

Okay now that that is out of the way..... M79 machines are a b*tch to keep running (a parts machine is a good idea) but the sound is GREAT!!!! Some people feel these are the best sounding machines ever produced. Not sure I would go far enough to say they are the best but there are up there in my book.

If you know someone local that will work on it and you have parts then I say it is a no brainier, get it going. The only thing holding me back from getting mine up and running is there are no techs around here to do the work, I would have to pay for travel time etc. and I don't have a parts machine to keep me going.

mattallen · 21st February 2006, 08:19 PM

I'm not a 3M owner yet but I really hope to be. I have done so many google/forum searches on these machines (mainly the m56 and m79) and it's always mixed reviews. A lot of people hate them with a passion, and other praise their sound and incredible low end. The point of actaully getting the machine to it's best is I think what deters most people from hearing their best. It's going to cost some money just because they are a little different from the normal tape machine and the parts are becoming harder and harder to find.

With that being said, to the owner of the 16 track, where do you live?

Drumsound · 21st February 2006, 08:55 PM

Is your tech well versed in all things 3M? They require more of an expert that say an MCI. They're wonderful machines sonically and can be modded to sound even better. My 24-track has been done over nicely, but she's still a quirky beast! If I lived near my tech in GA I would not have bought an MCI, but out here in the sticks I need simplicity.

I might be willing to part with my girl to a serious buyer...

denial · 22nd February 2006, 10:12 AM

My tech is local and well versed in fixing these machines, what sort of on-going problems should I expect?
What are the mods people speak of?

Drumsound · 22nd February 2006, 04:43 PM

The things that come up with 3M machines are not always typical, so they tent to require a little sleuthing from the tech. When I first got mine there were issues with the remote about 6 months after I got it. After trying some phone assistance I couldn't get it to work right so I had to send it to GA. Other times there were more typical things, like having all of the motors rebuilt because the machine is around 30 years old, so that was just a case of getting barrings and having the work done. Same with the pinch rollers, go to Athan, but parts have them installed. Those were typical age things.

There are a couple of mods flying around, but the Studio Tech1 mods are the most complete. They were developed with Bart Gass, one of the machine's designers. They extend the frequency response, improve signal to noise ratio and increase the slew rate. I'll try to get Doug to come by and offer more information. He also does a fast punch mod, to speed up the punching (duh!). Power supplies are also covered, not just a re-cap but more swapping of parts.

16-Track M79s sound amazing. There's so much surface area on the tape and the great sounding machine are a match made in sonic heaven.

not_so_new · 22nd February 2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumsound

The things that come up with 3M machines are not always typical, so they tent to require a little sleuthing from the tech. When I first got mine there were issues with the remote about 6 months after I got it. After trying some phone assistance I couldn't get it to work right so I had to send it to GA. Other times there were more typical things, like having all of the motors rebuilt because the machine is around 30 years old, so that was just a case of getting barrings and having the work done. Same with the pinch rollers, go to Athan, but parts have them installed. Those were typical age things.

There are a couple of mods flying around, but the Studio Tech1 mods are the most complete. They were developed with Bart Gass, one of the machine's designers. They extend the frequency response, improve signal to noise ratio and increase the slew rate. I'll try to get Doug to come by and offer more information. He also does a fast punch mod, to speed up the punching (duh!). Power supplies are also covered, not just a re-cap but more swapping of parts.

16-Track M79s sound amazing. There's so much surface area on the tape and the great sounding machine are a match made in sonic heaven.

I spoke with Doug on the phone a few times, GREAT guy.

Denial, Doug knows his sh*t about 3M machines. On top of that he has many spare parts around that other people just can't get their hands on. I would talk to him about the machine, he is cool and he is a wealth of info. After talking to him you would know if it is worth building the machine or not.

I also agree with Drumsound, a 16 track M79 would probably put a huge smile on your face.

Hey Drumsound. Doung mentioned before that he might be interested in my machine for parts or to rebuild but I lost his number, can you PM it to me please? That would be cool, thanks.

analogdinosaur · 23rd February 2006, 04:17 PM

Apologies, people, this is VERY LONG, so go get a drink (make it a stiff one), or you may die of dehydration before its over.

Ok, my friend Tony at Oxide Lounge (Drumsound, to most of you) persuaded me to weigh in on this thread although I'm mostly just lurking in the shadows here at GS.

The 3M M79's can be some of the most wonderful sounding machines ever made, with a bottom end as rich or more as any, but yet different from both the Ampexes and the Studers. When correct, these are wonderful sounding like no other, but first, I want to reduce most of the romance to rubbish so you can evaluate a prospective acquisition without starry eyes. Beats romancing the bankruptcy court.

The audio electronics are not often that problematic, and upgrades have been designed for them that take sonic transparency on these decks to new levels (ask Tony about the sound, as I did these mods to his. If you want one that's 99% rockin', then buy his, the locator should work soon) The main source of problems on these decks, in my experience, is with quirky transport issues, tension, sensor failures, motors & motor drivers, bearings, etc. Hey, the only thing spinning your capstan is a tiny, thin plastic belt (think Wollensak)! *(which I have plenty of if anyone needs, PM me) Also the audio channel switching and both autolocator versions are often subject to failures. There was also a power supply recall early on in production, but I have seen some of the defective ones still out there, so watch out!

Again, I want to say that I am IN LOVE with the sound of a correctly running '79. Lately, however, I have seen studios that have them dumping them for $1500-3000 as is (or less, I've heard of the $100 '79, yes, its true), and no one seems to want to invest the time or money to get them usable. So, alas, I have not been pushing them as machines to bank a business on, but great for the upscale hobbyist studio to track to before dumping to digital, or as a great sounding "second deck" with a different, rich sonic flavor. However, the general rule lately has been NEVER as the only deck in a busy commercial studio.

For those adventurous souls so far undaunted by my negative ranting, read on, there is a bit of light here.

There are a lot of parts still available for these machines, the bearings are readily available, often via local sources, the belts I have had made and have a reasonable supply, Athan is doing a wonderful job making rollers and idlers, most electronic parts are common and easy to find with the exception of Vac-Techs, HTL logic chips, audio switching relays and a few other items. My personal parts inventory may not be as deep as it's legend is large, but I can usually get one of these running.

For those of you with technical skills contemplating the purchase of one of these, be very prepared to do a lot of research and spend much time with it, as these machines (especially the transport) can be tweakier than most. I do think these are a value (as are the Ampex's) for the DIY type tech, small studio owner as you can get a lot of machine for reasonable money and a boatload of time.

Save yourself the experience of eating gunmetal, forget the romance, and do not buy one if...

a)you are not a tech even of a basic nature
b)do not have a tech near you who can service it (preferably 3M experienced, but if not,willing to learn)
c)can't or don't want to pay me or some other tech to go through it completly up front and then bring us in whenever it does hiccup (and it WILL :).

I've long wanted to do a complete redesign of the transport electronics and mechanisms on these decks and offer it as a retrofit to make them as solid reliable as an Otari MTR. Any takers for a $20,000 M79?

Just 5 pioneering souls with second mortgages and I can make this a reality!

In closing (about time, huh) let me say that these decks were on countless classic rock records we all know and love, and were an integral part of the sound. Somewhere in my mountain of paper I have the discography from the original Rolling Stones Mobile, which was M79's (I know, I worked on 'em), and it will blow your mind. If I run across it, I'll post it for your enjoyment...over 300+ records we all grew up on.

It just takes a brave, adveturous soul to keep running one these days...

Douglas
a/k/a Analogdinosaur

mightyecho · 30th August 2007, 04:45 PM

I can back everything this man has just said 100% correct...

But if you do get the 3M you will be many cuts above your competition the sonic difference is not a small thing... commercially it would be a bitch without a second machine as back up, sonically you get instant platinum sound without trying, the sound has balls with a super rich high mid section to just die for! sounds to my ears that Marvin Gaye may have used one in the later years, i bought the 3M M79 for £700 and have spent £2700 having it serviced its still completely unreliable and may cost another £1500 or so to get it about as reliable as can be without a redesign of the stuff already mentioned (above).

My service tech reckons they drift a bit from calibration much quicker than other machines straight after setup but they then steady and hold their ground for longer than other machines... while other machines dive right out once they begin to drift! i plan to use this machine with an Alesis HD for backup!

Also agree with the dude elsewhere that claims it sounds mechanically like a washing machine is next to you, might be off put if you dont have a seperate machine room for it...

It is bearable still if you turn up the monitors a little...

Parts are available thank God!

I have a man in the UK who has 8 tons of 3M machines & parts he bought their stock from 3M Mincom when they closed down!

He also services 3M machines and knows them very well, he even knew the technical team at Mincom and has service knowledge handed down to him that is not written in the 3M service manual.
Get in contact if help is needed...

Drumsound · 30th August 2007, 09:32 PM

If your M79 sounds like a washing machine you might consider rebuilding the motors. When Doug did mine I was amazed how quiet it had become...

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21st February 2006, 01:46 PM	#1
denial Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 497	3M M79 16 track tape recorder I've managed to pick up one of these machines and while it is pulling tape, it does need some work. My understanding is that parts are somewhat scarce and they can require a lot of maintenance to keep running. My question relates to whether it's worth spending the money on a tech to bring it back to performance level or sell it off as parts. As a 16 track machine, would the M79 offer anything sonically over a 24 track Studer A800. Is it worth the trouble or will it just be a headache. I have a tech locally that can fix and maintain it. Anyone with any experience? __________________ "Fix it in the marketing"

21st February 2006, 08:55 PM	#4
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	Is your tech well versed in all things 3M? They require more of an expert that say an MCI. They're wonderful machines sonically and can be modded to sound even better. My 24-track has been done over nicely, but she's still a quirky beast! If I lived near my tech in GA I would not have bought an MCI, but out here in the sticks I need simplicity. I might be willing to part with my girl to a serious buyer... __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

22nd February 2006, 10:12 AM	#5
denial Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 497	My tech is local and well versed in fixing these machines, what sort of on-going problems should I expect? What are the mods people speak of? __________________ "Fix it in the marketing"

22nd February 2006, 04:43 PM	#6
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	The things that come up with 3M machines are not always typical, so they tent to require a little sleuthing from the tech. When I first got mine there were issues with the remote about 6 months after I got it. After trying some phone assistance I couldn't get it to work right so I had to send it to GA. Other times there were more typical things, like having all of the motors rebuilt because the machine is around 30 years old, so that was just a case of getting barrings and having the work done. Same with the pinch rollers, go to Athan, but parts have them installed. Those were typical age things. There are a couple of mods flying around, but the Studio Tech1 mods are the most complete. They were developed with Bart Gass, one of the machine's designers. They extend the frequency response, improve signal to noise ratio and increase the slew rate. I'll try to get Doug to come by and offer more information. He also does a fast punch mod, to speed up the punching (duh!). Power supplies are also covered, not just a re-cap but more swapping of parts. 16-Track M79s sound amazing. There's so much surface area on the tape and the great sounding machine are a match made in sonic heaven. __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

21st February 2006, 08:19 PM	#3
mattallen Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 107	I'm not a 3M owner yet but I really hope to be. I have done so many google/forum searches on these machines (mainly the m56 and m79) and it's always mixed reviews. A lot of people hate them with a passion, and other praise their sound and incredible low end. The point of actaully getting the machine to it's best is I think what deters most people from hearing their best. It's going to cost some money just because they are a little different from the normal tape machine and the parts are becoming harder and harder to find. With that being said, to the owner of the 16 track, where do you live?

23rd February 2006, 04:17 PM	#8
analogdinosaur Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southeast USA Posts: 25	Apologies, people, this is VERY LONG, so go get a drink (make it a stiff one), or you may die of dehydration before its over. Ok, my friend Tony at Oxide Lounge (Drumsound, to most of you) persuaded me to weigh in on this thread although I'm mostly just lurking in the shadows here at GS. The 3M M79's can be some of the most wonderful sounding machines ever made, with a bottom end as rich or more as any, but yet different from both the Ampexes and the Studers. When correct, these are wonderful sounding like no other, but first, I want to reduce most of the romance to rubbish so you can evaluate a prospective acquisition without starry eyes. Beats romancing the bankruptcy court. The audio electronics are not often that problematic, and upgrades have been designed for them that take sonic transparency on these decks to new levels (ask Tony about the sound, as I did these mods to his. If you want one that's 99% rockin', then buy his, the locator should work soon) The main source of problems on these decks, in my experience, is with quirky transport issues, tension, sensor failures, motors & motor drivers, bearings, etc. Hey, the only thing spinning your capstan is a tiny, thin plastic belt (think Wollensak)! *(which I have plenty of if anyone needs, PM me) Also the audio channel switching and both autolocator versions are often subject to failures. There was also a power supply recall early on in production, but I have seen some of the defective ones still out there, so watch out! Again, I want to say that I am IN LOVE with the sound of a correctly running '79. Lately, however, I have seen studios that have them dumping them for $1500-3000 as is (or less, I've heard of the $100 '79, yes, its true), and no one seems to want to invest the time or money to get them usable. So, alas, I have not been pushing them as machines to bank a business on, but great for the upscale hobbyist studio to track to before dumping to digital, or as a great sounding "second deck" with a different, rich sonic flavor. However, the general rule lately has been NEVER as the only deck in a busy commercial studio. For those adventurous souls so far undaunted by my negative ranting, read on, there is a bit of light here. There are a lot of parts still available for these machines, the bearings are readily available, often via local sources, the belts I have had made and have a reasonable supply, Athan is doing a wonderful job making rollers and idlers, most electronic parts are common and easy to find with the exception of Vac-Techs, HTL logic chips, audio switching relays and a few other items. My personal parts inventory may not be as deep as it's legend is large, but I can usually get one of these running. For those of you with technical skills contemplating the purchase of one of these, be very prepared to do a lot of research and spend much time with it, as these machines (especially the transport) can be tweakier than most. I do think these are a value (as are the Ampex's) for the DIY type tech, small studio owner as you can get a lot of machine for reasonable money and a boatload of time. Save yourself the experience of eating gunmetal, forget the romance, and do not buy one if... a)you are not a tech even of a basic nature b)do not have a tech near you who can service it (preferably 3M experienced, but if not,willing to learn) c)can't or don't want to pay me or some other tech to go through it completly up front and then bring us in whenever it does hiccup (and it WILL :). I've long wanted to do a complete redesign of the transport electronics and mechanisms on these decks and offer it as a retrofit to make them as solid reliable as an Otari MTR. Any takers for a $20,000 M79? Just 5 pioneering souls with second mortgages and I can make this a reality! In closing (about time, huh) let me say that these decks were on countless classic rock records we all know and love, and were an integral part of the sound. Somewhere in my mountain of paper I have the discography from the original Rolling Stones Mobile, which was M79's (I know, I worked on 'em), and it will blow your mind. If I run across it, I'll post it for your enjoyment...over 300+ records we all grew up on. It just takes a brave, adveturous soul to keep running one these days... Douglas a/k/a Analogdinosaur

30th August 2007, 04:45 PM	#9
mightyecho Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 32	3M sonic heaven no bullshit I can back everything this man has just said 100% correct... But if you do get the 3M you will be many cuts above your competition the sonic difference is not a small thing... commercially it would be a bitch without a second machine as back up, sonically you get instant platinum sound without trying, the sound has balls with a super rich high mid section to just die for! sounds to my ears that Marvin Gaye may have used one in the later years, i bought the 3M M79 for £700 and have spent £2700 having it serviced its still completely unreliable and may cost another £1500 or so to get it about as reliable as can be without a redesign of the stuff already mentioned (above). My service tech reckons they drift a bit from calibration much quicker than other machines straight after setup but they then steady and hold their ground for longer than other machines... while other machines dive right out once they begin to drift! i plan to use this machine with an Alesis HD for backup! Also agree with the dude elsewhere that claims it sounds mechanically like a washing machine is next to you, might be off put if you dont have a seperate machine room for it... It is bearable still if you turn up the monitors a little... Parts are available thank God! I have a man in the UK who has 8 tons of 3M machines & parts he bought their stock from 3M Mincom when they closed down! He also services 3M machines and knows them very well, he even knew the technical team at Mincom and has service knowledge handed down to him that is not written in the 3M service manual. Get in contact if help is needed...

30th August 2007, 09:32 PM	#10
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	If your M79 sounds like a washing machine you might consider rebuilding the motors. When Doug did mine I was amazed how quiet it had become... __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

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