hardware vs plugins users of both only please

[jrod9900]

Yes, thank you. I love the API sound, and I don't feel the plugs do it justice... Its just, meh...

Jrod

[waldie wave]

SSL Buss compressor sounds pretty similar to the Waves plugin, with the exception that on the same settings, the metres are different.

I don't have an LA2A compressor but I do have an ADL1500 and the Waves CLA compressors. I prefer the sound of my ADL1500 to the Waves LA2A plugin. The warmth from the 4 tubes on each channel of the ADL greatly enhances and thickens tracks in a way the plugin can't. In stereo mode, the stereo image is widened beautifully. My ADL1500 was modified by Doug Jane and it has very low self noise. It is my go to compressor now. I prefer it to my Manley VariMu and SSL Buss compressor for most applications.

Having said the above, the CLA plug-ins are very usable and versatile. The LA3A is the most impressive of the Waves CLA compressors bundle. It is worth the price for that plugin alone.

[jrod9900]

I agree that the plugs get pretty close. However, for me, on my 2 bus I need that extra that the hardware gives. I started a session yesterday, and the studio has a 4056 G+. I'm jjust using the bus comp for monitoring, but it just gives me THAT feeling...

Its like your woman leaves you, best friend moves away, dog gets hit by a car, but when you kick it in, you know everythings gonna be ok.

JROD

[Jboyxl73]

Honestly the people who buy music now love iTunes and mp3 which are the worst way to listen to music ever so weather u use plugins or hardwear is really up to u unfortunately the listening public doesn't care thats why Justin Bieber is famous ......do what sounds good to your ear and for your wallet and live with it Jimi Hendrix and the beatles used 4 track recorders and nobody would use that now and those albums are timeless its the mixer not the gear

[ShadowAMD]

Honestly I found tracking methodology far better than any hardware comps or software.. If the fundamentals are right, it sounds fantastic using any of them. It's when your having to stress tools to try and fix things it becomes apparent, hardware is more forgiving although software does the job just as well as long as the Source > Mics > Gain staging is all done properly.

[Adura]

Originally Posted by waldie wave

The LA3A is the most impressive of the Waves CLA compressors bundle. It is worth the price for that plugin alone.

Agree

[raal]

Originally Posted by waldie wave

Having said the above, the CLA plug-ins are very usable and versatile. The LA3A is the most impressive of the Waves CLA compressors bundle. It is worth the price for that plugin alone.

feel the same about Blackie. have A/Bd next to our very nice rev.F 1176.

[jrod9900]

Originally Posted by raal

feel the same about Blackie. have A/Bd next to our very nice rev.F 1176.

How does the Hardware Rev F sound compared to the Waves plug?

JROD

[raal]

Originally Posted by jrod9900

How does the Hardware Rev F sound compared to the Waves plug?

JROD

IMO and those who were in the room, scary close... as in impossible to reliably tell which was which (blind). we A/B'd on lead vocal of a pretty dense mix, soloed and in the mix.

[jrod9900]

Man, that sounds tempting...

JROD

[raal]

Originally Posted by jrod9900

Man, that sounds tempting...

JROD

not selling my hardware anytime soon but i must admit plugs are getting alot closer these days and there are some plug-ins for which there simply is no analog replacement (Paul Frindle's DSM comes to mind).

[phatbeatstudio]

Don't be fooled copy cat plugs are only amp modelling. Amp modelling is useful and somewhat similar but in no way even close to the real deal.

Plug in any quality EQ hardware insert then any use any plugin you want.
Its the difference between playboy and a lap dance. You can get off on both, but I know what I want.

[jrod9900]

Haha, nice one.

JROD

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Let's put it like this. If you were to A/B between the hardware and plugs you would quickly realize that the plugs aren't even close to the real deal. Is it worth it to spend the thousands needed for each piece? That's up to you. You can certainly make a fine sounding mix using all plugs, but it will never sound like a mix that uses the real hardware. At the end of the day you have to make the decision as to whether it is worth it for you and your art.

Couldn't agree more, great post.

[jrod9900]

Close, or close enough? That will lie in the hands of the engineer...

JROD

[djstudio048]

[jrod9900]

This thread is located at:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...-new-post.html

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by jrod9900)---
I personally like plug-ins better than any hardware, and I've tried a lot of the really great hardware, but still, I think most good plug-ins sound better, way better.
JROD
---End Quote---
wow, I didn't think I'd live to see the day...
***************

This is what it said in my email. I don't remember saying this, and it doesn't say this in his post above... ??? I would never have said this unsarcastically. Did I get hammered drunk and black out??? WTF???

JROD

[Aiyn Zahav]

Originally Posted by u b k

Ahh, but you're neglecting the impact the tools have on the carpenter. If you're a guy who not only hears the .8% but you're so sensitive to it that it becomes the focus of 50% of your efforts, then the equations shift.

This is art, so the state of mind of the creators is massive. The right tool for the job is essential; I'm not making claims as to what tools are right, that's an individual determination. But for the guy turning the knobs, the difference between having nothing but plugins and having a complement of outboard is generally much greater than .8%, and so is the resulting impact on the work itself.


Gregory Scott - ubk

This is true, I can't speak about hardware very much, but I can speak about poor vs good plug-ins and although I know full well people aren't for the most part aware of what you've done, I know. The art you create is your personal goal, and if your tools are letting you down it of course affects you.

I recently tried out the CLA bundle and got pretty excited about the sound I could get on my electronic drums, I know from experience that you just don't get that sound without the right tools.

[Ernest Buckley]

Originally Posted by waldie wave

I don't have an LA2A compressor but I do have an ADL1500 and the Waves CLA compressors. I prefer the sound of my ADL1500 to the Waves LA2A plugin. The warmth from the 4 tubes on each channel of the ADL greatly enhances and thickens tracks in a way the plugin can't. In stereo mode, the stereo image is widened beautifully.

I enjoy the ADL stuff too!

As for plugs... If I need warmth, I`ll reach for the Waves Renaissance Compressor or the H-Comp which has 4 different settings for warmth. For stereo applications, I tend to lean towards the Renaissance.

Just recorded 40 tracks of BKG Vox yesterday and needed to bring them all together. I slapped the Renaissance across the aux and there was the glue I needed with a little warmth to boot. Then for some more warmth, I scooped out a bit of the mid range before the Renaissance.

People talk about not being able to get that warmth in plugs, for me it`s a two step process of EQ`ing and compression. I don`t know the technical jargon behind it but once you introduce tubes to a signal, those tubes are adding and taking out freqs. To my ears, tubes are adding some low end and scooping out the mids so I do the same when I EQ itb. Just some thoughts...

[Night Stalker]

As soon as I buy the latest plug whether it be eq or comp I get excited and actually use many instances across the mix. Instant recall is such a good thing to have even if wanting to change a few settings another time.
But time and time gain, every time I think wow this plug is good and it will surely be a hair splitting difference when I a/b them against my hardware comps or eqs I always end up realizing that all the time and effort spent on the a/b process could have been time spent on fine tuning the mix. The hardware always gives me that edge be it only a few percent in certain times and other times its quite noticeable.
I obviously use a hybrid process with my itb than hardware but as time passes, my hardware collection is growing where I find I'm quite satisfied with my itb plugs.
I can definitely pull off a mix that im happy with only itb but am using a lot my hardware in my productions these days.

[SCDBM]

Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley

I enjoy the ADL stuff too!

As for plugs... If I need warmth, I`ll reach for the Waves Renaissance Compressor or the H-Comp which has 4 different settings for warmth. For stereo applications, I tend to lean towards the Renaissance.

Just recorded 40 tracks of BKG Vox yesterday and needed to bring them all together. I slapped the Renaissance across the aux and there was the glue I needed with a little warmth to boot. Then for some more warmth, I scooped out a bit of the mid range before the Renaissance.

People talk about not being able to get that warmth in plugs, for me it`s a two step process of EQ`ing and compression. I don`t know the technical jargon behind it but once you introduce tubes to a signal, those tubes are adding and taking out freqs. To my ears, tubes are adding some low end and scooping out the mids so I do the same when I EQ itb. Just some thoughts...

Except, you're not adding tube warmth, your adding a 3rd order harmonics algorithm with an programmed EQ curve. You can call it anything your favorite vendor marketing dept. Tells you what it is. At the end of the day it's just programmed modelled maths.... Nothing more.... It has got NOTHING. To do with a current actally going through a light bulb.... Just some thoughts, too........


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[sage691]

Originally Posted by SCDBM

Except, you're not adding tube warmth, your adding a 3rd order harmonics algorithm with an programmed EQ curve. You can call it anything your favorite vendor marketing dept. Tells you what it is. At the end of the day it's just programmed modelled maths.... Nothing more.... It has got NOTHING. To do with a current actally going through a light bulb.... Just some thoughts, too........

Yep !

Another dirty little secret the plug peddlers don't want you to know these days is that you can get the exact same results with PT 5 era plugs that you can with any of the new plugs. You simply just need to know what sound you are trying to model and then start stacking on the old free plugs to get there.

It's basically the same approach that certain famous ITB mixers take when using plugs to replace their hardware; they know (from years of experience, plus being able to pull up solo processed tracks from past sessions where $hardware$ was used) how to stack 5 different plugs together and use each minimally to get the desired effect.

The only difference between the plugs of today and the ones from 1999 are the GUIs; the rest is just a geek plugging in numbers into a computer and creating a preset.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by sage691

Yep !

Another dirty little secret the plug peddlers don't want you to know these days is that you can get the exact same results with PT 5 era plugs that you can with any of the new plugs. You simply just need to know what sound you are trying to model and then start stacking on the old free plugs to get there.

It's basically the same approach that certain famous ITB mixers take when using plugs to replace their hardware; they know (from years of experience, plus being able to pull up solo processed tracks from past sessions where $hardware$ was used) how to stack 5 different plugs together and use each minimally to get the desired effect.

The only difference between the plugs of today and the ones from 1999 are the GUIs; the rest is just a geek plugging in numbers into a computer and creating a preset.

I totally disagree.

I guess all the extra CPU needed to run the newer Plugins is no extra processing at all,just fictional instructions that does nothing to process the sound.

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