Building up a drum mic setup!

[Kurkkuviipale]

Hey guys,

So I'm now in a point of getting a good set of mics to mic up my drums. I've got a nice kit (tama starclassic maple kit ) so that's not to be the weak link.

So now I'm asking you for help to choose the correct mics for the kit and give me opinions on preamps and such. What suits the best.

So to know what suits the best, you've got to know what I'm aiming for right? I'm going for a metal sound, precise and produced to shit. I guess my drum producing skills are fine, I've been using Superior Drummer @ this point due to lack of money. It's a good way to practice I guess. You can see my mixes here.

For more details on the target sound, I'm gonna list some of my fave drum mixes (not in any order, just what comes to mind:
Dream Theater - Black Clouds
Protest The Hero - Scurrilous
Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
Sikth - Death Of A Dead Day
Tesseract - One
Periphery - Periphery

Just to name few.

So what I've been thinking of (tl;dr starts about here)? I'm not doing physical triggers, but I might be going samples on kick and maybe snare. Blending FTW. List of mics and pres I've been thinking:

Bass Drum - AKG D 112
Overhead - RODE NT5 Matched Pair
Toms (three rack toms, two floor) - SENNHEISER E604
Ambience - Cheap ass ribbon
Snare - Shure SM57
Hi-Hat - Not sure of

Preamp - FOCUSRITE LIQUID SAFFIRE 56
+ FOCUSRITE OCTOPRE MKII

The way I'm gonna deal with this is to first buy a cheaper setup and then start to buy mics one at a time.

Opinions, points, am I on the right track?

Thanks,
-Joel

Ps. Excuse me if you feel that there are enough identical threads of this - none of them seemed to suit my needs. Also, feel free to move this to another subforum if needed!

[phantompwr]

I would check out this thread: ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-...c-madness.html

Although I have a D112, a lot of people seem to like the Audix D6 on kick, especially for metal, so you might consider that. Some other mics that are cheap and did really well in the shootout are the i5, MXL 991, and the CAD m177 (m179) You should listen and decide for yourself what you like though

[Kurkkuviipale]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

I would check out this thread: ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-...c-madness.html

Although I have a D112, a lot of people seem to like the Audix D6 on kick, especially for metal, so you might consider that. Some other mics that are cheap and did really well in the shootout are the i5, MXL 991, and the CAD m177 (m179) You should listen and decide for yourself what you like though

I've been reading that guide for a while now. Still feel I need some help for this specific situation.

Thanks for the tip. I'll be checking out Audix D6 for sure!

[phantompwr]

I would also add that you should think about your room before you think about mics, and about mics before you worry about preamps. If you want a pretty dry sound on your drums its not that hard to treat a room to get it as dead as you can. If you want some room sound though, you might want to think about looking around your area for a place you could borrow or rent cheaply that has a good sound for when you want to do your recordings (if you don't think you can get a good sound from what you have). I think the mic pres you have picked out should be fine, hopefully someone else can give you better opinions on those than I can though.

I haven't used the Sennheiser e604's, but I haven't heard great things about them. I can tell you that the Apex 205 (I had mine modified by Mr. Joly) makes a great room mic for drums, and I like it on FOK too (with a pop filter because it does make me a little nervous)

[Kurkkuviipale]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

I would also add that you should think about your room before you think about mics, and about mics before you worry about preamps. If you want a pretty dry sound on your drums its not that hard to treat a room to get it as dead as you can. If you want some room sound though, you might want to think about looking around your area for a place you could borrow or rent cheaply that has a good sound for when you want to do your recordings (if you don't think you can get a good sound from what you have). I think the mic pres you have picked out should be fine, hopefully someone else can give you better opinions on those than I can though.

I haven't used the Sennheiser e604's, but I haven't heard great things about them. I can tell you that the Apex 205 (I had mine modified by Mr. Joly) makes a great room mic for drums, and I like it on FOK too (with a pop filter because it does make me a little nervous)

The room should be ok. I'm thinking of treating it, but I have a lot of furniture and a lot of corners and shapes to kill all reverb. I should be fine for start. I guess I won't be using much room mics as I'm doing metal, but for the dream setup, which I'm targeting ofc I'll be treating my room. That or then I'll be getting plastic plex walls.

I read (from here) that Sennheiser E604 is a common mic used for toms. It's cheap one and if it does the job done it should be fine. I'm all ears if someone can offer me a competent for sure.

As for room, Apex 205 looks great. Cheers for that.

[StratSvante]

Originally Posted by Kurkkuviipale

I read (from here) that Sennheiser E604 is a common mic used for toms.

Cheers for that.

The 604 are used quite alot live cause there small but it's probably the last mics i would use for toms in the studio. Check out MD421s, awesome tom mics, some cheap LDC like the Cad M179, even sm57s would sound better imo.

+ 1 for the D6, does it all except jazz:P

then I'd recommend a SDC for snare shell, I really begun to love that.

[Kurkkuviipale]

Originally Posted by StratSvante

The 604 are used quite alot live cause there small but it's probably the last mics i would use for toms in the studio. Check out MD421s, awesome tom mics, some cheap LDC like the Cad M179, even sm57s would sound better imo.

+ 1 for the D6, does it all except jazz:P

then I'd recommend a SDC for snare shell, I really begun to love that.

Well I have one SM57 (only mic I actually have) and it sounds good on snare (drum mic madness thread) so that must be there.

Unfortunately, I have no distributors for Cad M179, but I'll check for other LDC's. SM57 is now on my list for toms as well. Any other cheap choices for toms? I have 5 toms to mic up and I'm not too rich.

Audix D6 really caught my attention. Thanks for that!

E: Does anyone think that Audix i5 could make it for toms? I'm also thinking that I might be goin' for ribbon mics as I want to keep it nice and simple. Thoughts?

[T-Stag]

Here's my suggestions:

Snare Top: SM57, Audix I5, Beyerdynamic M69
Snare Bottom: Shure SM81, Beyerdynamic M201
Toms: Shure Beta 56, Audix D2 & D4, EV N/D468 (The problem with 604 is that it's very limited when it comes to manipulating the angle and distance of the mic. IMO it's used more live than in the studio.)
Kick Slap: Shure Beta 52, Audix D6 (112 is often a bit too neutral and dull for processed metal, definitely requires VERY heavy eq and a sample.)
Kick Outside: Yamaha Subkick
Overheads/Hi-Hat/Ride: Shure SM81, AKG 451
Ambience: You mentioned "cheap ass ribbon". Since you seem to be Finnish, get yourself a pair of T.Bone RB-500 -ribbon mics from Thomann. Those are awesome ambience mics! Position them about 7 feet away of your kit in a tight xy pattern at about waist level. That mentioned, it'd be wise for you to get another pair that features an omni pattern. If you don't want to break your bank, the Behringer ECM8000 is a great choise and will give you some variation in the ambience sound when positioned further away of the kit. Of course a pair of Neumann U87's will get you there as well...

[Kurkkuviipale]

Right, so I can now check the snare. I have an SM57 and if it suits, then so be it.

Snare bottom: I'm not even thinking of it yet. I might be replacing the snare with a sample for now. But I'm young and I have time to fill up that later. Another reason why not yet is that with superior drummer I tend to have it almos always off or atleast really low on my mixes. I know it has benefits, but as I said... later. :P

Kick might as well be replaced for now, but I'll be having Audix D6 inside it for now. Unless you're giving me some competition for that as well - the drum mic madness thread offered a good comparison for that.

Overheads: ... what's wrong with NT-5 then? I checked a few vids on youtube () and they seemed to be fine.

Yea I've been looking at T.Bone RB-500 for a while. That must be my choise!

[T-Stag]

Originally Posted by Kurkkuviipale

Overheads: ... what's wrong with NT-5 then? I checked a few vids on youtube () and they seemed to be fine.

There's nothing "wrong" with them per se, I personally just look for a bit higher quality in overhead mics. A matched pair of NT5s will work, and maybe in the future you'll be able to add a pair of SM81s etc. and use the NT5s as hihat and ride mics...

[Kurkkuviipale]

Originally Posted by T-Stag

There's nothing "wrong" with them per se, I personally just look for a bit higher quality in overhead mics. A matched pair of NT5s will work, and maybe in the future you'll be able to add a pair of SM81s etc. and use the NT5s as hihat and ride mics...

Right, SM81 sounds good indeed for later considerations. So anyhow, I'd like to know what do you think of the toms other than the non clamping ones. I'm a bit into keeping it compact and could somewhat even take away sound quality for the compatibility. Any recommendations for clamping tom mics?

[jlaco]

Snare top: Beyer m201 (GREAT snare mic)
Snare b: sm57
Toms: md421, beyer opus 88 or 87, cad m179
Kick: Shure beta52 or Audix d6.. Nuff said
OH: 414, sm81, km84
Room: To me, doesn't really matter, its always very low in the mix

Pres: API 3124
chameleon Labs 7602

[drBill]

Originally Posted by phantompwr

I would check out this thread: ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-...c-madness.html

thumbsupthumbsup

I'd second that recommendation. I hear the guy that did that shootout is amazing on drums.....

[thegatsby]

Whats your budget?
I'll try and give this a shot.
Kick - AKG d112, Heil pr40, RE-20
Kick Out- Yamaha Sub-Kick, TLM 103, Bock 195 (heard this was good never tried though)
Snare top- 57, Heil pr-30, Beta 57a, 414 ULS, Dragonfly
Snare Bottom- 57, 441, 414, dragonfly, any SDC might be cool
Toms- 57, 421's, sennheiser 604, oktava mk-012-01, 414, Heil Pr30 has been my go to tom mic its has tight pattern and doesn't pick up as much cymbal bleed as others.
Overheads- Blue Dragonfly, AKG 451's, 414 ULS, Oktava mk-012-01, TLM 103's, Might wanna try some ribbons too, I heard a shootout with a Coles 4038 on OH and was blown away by them.
Hi-hats - I hardly ever mic them but sm57 has worked, I've seen other use sm7, beyer 160, royer 121.
Ride- SM81 works pretty good, Oktava mk-012, km 184
Room- I agree with the guy above, you should make sure the drums are in a treated room before you start anything, so saying your room is treated cascade fathead is cheap and sounds good, there is other LDC i like on room though the, AT 4050's 414's, U87'sand some other ribbons, Royer 121, heard the AEA r84 makes a great room mic.
Mic Preamps- API, Daking, Pacifica, can do no wrong.
Hope this helps.

[ZGR8]

I am not sure what comment is where(to quote) as I am using the iPhone version of GS. I digress....

Kick +1D6 Great alone.
Snare 57 is fine since you have it. I prefer the i5. That said....
Toms 421's or E/V 420/8. If on the cheaper Audix D1/2/4 or i5. Way before 57's all around. (the kit).
Overheads I'd look at a LD: C or MP. I have done many shoot outs to SD C's I really prefer the LD's. That is truly a matter of taste, though.
And echoing others, room last as this will be the smallest part o d mix. At least mine. And a cheap ribbon? Why not put that $ towards the close mics? And then down the road get a nice ribbon.
I don't spot mic toms for a lot of drummers coming into the studio. Kick, snare, OH's and viola that's all you need. IMOP.
Best of luck!

[Kurkkuviipale]

Yay, I'm glad someone mentioned opus 88 and 87, have been thinking of those as well. Anyone else into these?

I'm bit of in a low budget right now so all this 900€ overheads just doesn't suit. Lets say, 650 for interface and 1500 for the rest. and the range would be +-300 so a maximum of 1800 and minimum of 1200. Just remember that I'm not going for this realistic sound and thus want the absolute best. I'm most probably going to flatten the drum with compression and make them sound very mechanic, just as they do in mixes I tend to like.

I'm not sure if I'm going for tom mics at the first batch. I need opinions!

Thanks buy the way for absolutely great comments.

E: And I'm emphasing the fact that I'm most probably going to beef up my kit with samples on at least kick. So I'm not sure if I need subkick or a bottom mic for snare.

[Stéphane]

e604 are boxy, check out the beta 98 d/s for the toms.

[Kurkkuviipale]

Well they must sound wonderful, but unfortunately I can't afford 255€ * 5 for micing up my toms.

[T-Stag]

Originally Posted by Kurkkuviipale

I'd like to know what do you think of the toms other than the non clamping ones. I'm a bit into keeping it compact and could somewhat even take away sound quality for the compatibility. Any recommendations for clamping tom mics?

Audix has a really cool clamping system, the D-Vice. It has a clamp and a gooseneck which is very nicely adjustable. I'm actually getting the Audix DP7 kit in a few weeks and it has 4 of those clamps...

[Kurkkuviipale]

I'll be sure to check after Audix. And the beyerdynamics are... ?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Kurkkuviipale

but unfortunately I can't afford 255€ * 5 for micing up my toms.

Perhaps the low end forum might be more appropriate for your post then.

[Kurkkuviipale]

Originally Posted by drBill

Perhaps the low end forum might be more appropriate for your post then.

I guess if you say so... I thought I said that feel free to move this thread where ever it belongs. However, I'm not sure if my upcoming drum micing setup will be exactly low end either.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Kurkkuviipale

I guess if you say so... I thought I said that feel free to move this thread where ever it belongs. Howe

You can post where ever you like. I see you're fairly new around here though. After observing for awhile you should just be aware that if you're posting in high end, you will (and SHOULD) get comments like : U87's on Toms and C12's on OH and U47FET on Kick. That alone would cost you over $70k - a fair bit more than what you're considering. I guess one man's high end is another man's low end.