I made a real mess.... Studio Equipment for Dance Music

[just_manu]

I've posted two threads before this one...... but unfortunately, the more I search through the web, the more I get disoriented :-/

I have about 10K € to spend on outboard for my studio. I must say I have no hardware now, only a Pc, two Mackie's Hr 824,a Tc Konnekt 6 and a SE2200a mic.

I want to buy a pair of synths such as Slim Phatty and Nord Lead Rack.

But farther than that, I have NO IDEA of what to buy.

First, I'll need a good preamp for vocals, and a good mic. (Avalon, Neumann, etc...)

Second, I need some hardware to run my different tracks (percussion, bass, synths, etc... through it, to give them warmth and phatness. (I don't know if Valve Preamp + Compressor, or just a Valve compressor, or a Culture Vulture + a Compressor).

I've been trying to know what pro's have in their studios, but I have found anything :(.

What would be your best buy for making a good studio for ONLY electronic music (house music)????

Please, I need a lot of helpful answers from people who produces this kind of music.

[Brickman]

u might try asking in the Electronic instruments forum .

[tobiasvangils]

he manu how are you?

interesting, I'm also really into house music so I'll try and help you.

first basic. Make sure your PC is good, otherwise get a Mac Pro or the new MBP.

Then most imporant. acoustics.
It sounds boring but its damn important.
For around 1 to 2k you can get great acoustic treatment for your room. some good basstraps and panels and position them wisely. The speakers are also imporant
I would recommend a true sounding setup.

- Event Opals (one of the best for house music)
- presonus central station, does not colour the sound and u can connect both pair of speakers, so the events and the mackie's
- good interface: something like a Apogee ensemble if you get a mac, or RME. make sure that you have enough I/O's in case you expand to a big hardware setup over the years.
- midi-keyboard. fatar numa for real piano feeling or otherwise m-audio etc. all good.
- some panels for the speakers to stand on, is really cheap
- NOT important: but I always like a nice working enviroment, so e.g. an used argosy workstation desk for 500 dollar. then you also got space for the rack stuff and it looks damn pretty

on the hardware:
check the Virus TI (and the polar TI) Total integration is really important in my opinion. I HATE recalling stuff on synths like the nord rack.
the moogs are also good, so a moog slim/little phatty e.g.

mic preamp/mic.
If you get the apogee ensemble you already got 4 high-end mic pres.
I'll use those, if not take e.g. an avalon, but thats expensive.
take a loog at the GAP pre 73. it's like a neve and only 300$
for the mics try some different ones. if you record your own voice try test some in the shop
Or get a Shure Sm57, Sm58 and 2 others like a neumann, audio-technica etc. etc.


and a lavalamp for inspiration.
Depending on how you like to work maybe a DAW-controller. The MC control v2 is great in my opinion. not to expensive and great to use. a lot of functions.

goodluck and PM me in case you have any questions


ps. the outboard gear that famous house musicians have is 95% for processing vocals. some guys like deadmau5 have more, but those are exceptions

[SWAN808]

Considering you have some budget. There will be many options but here is what I might suggest which will be top for Electronic music:

How about a Thermionix Rooster to track vocals and run your stuff thru to give it some size and warmth?

Also you could consider a FATSO / UBK FATSO for fattening and channel compression.

Get a API2500 for your drum buss...the lowly Focusrite compounder can be awesome for house kicks (bass expand) plus a SPL Transient designer...

You can do acoustic treatment for much less than 1k if you do DIY. I built a load of traps like the ones halfway down this page which are fantastic and easy. Bass Traps

Your Konnekt is ok but you might consider an upgrade to a Steinberg MR816. Also perhaps a monitor upgrade...Opals are very nice - or Adam A7.

Your synth choice looks good however consider a Voyager Rack Mount - it offers more and personally I think its better for house music. A Virus TI/Snow is also a good choice but really - you can do very nicely with DCAM synth squad + Gladiator 2.

If you want to work to a lesser budget with the outboard look at the Overstayer line of gear...great prices...

[mattyc]

if i was to do it all again:

bac 500 compressor
purple biz pre
avedis ma5 pre
api 560 EQ
and a stereo pair of EQs (chandler devils i have here are nice f.e)
6000 euros

room treatment
1000 euros

Virus Snow
1000 euros

which leaves 2000 euros for a mic and maybe an old analogue synth or two, another set of monitors, UAD plus plugins etc etc.
all imo of course

[Casey Skinner]

Mac Pro!!!!

Lavry Converter!!!!

And the entire oxford plugin set.

If you are running pro tools, its best to have as many good plug-ins can afford.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by mattyc

if i was to do it all again:

bac 500 compressor
purple biz pre
avedis ma5 pre
api 560 EQ
and a stereo pair of EQs (chandler devils i have here are nice f.e)
6000 euros

room treatment
1000 euros

Virus Snow
1000 euros

which leaves 2000 euros for a mic and maybe an old analogue synth or two, another set of monitors, UAD plus plugins etc etc.
all imo of course

wow thats it on the compressor front?

[mattyc]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

wow thats it on the compressor front?

maybe swap out a pre or the 560 for another compressor true.
but hey i got an api 2500 and a UBK fatso amongst a heap of other compressors here as well too, but the guys budget only goes to 10,000 euros !
somethings got to give.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by mattyc

maybe swap out a pre or the 560 for another compressor true.
but hey i got an api 2500 and a UBK fatso amongst a heap of other compressors here as well too, but the guys budget only goes to 10,000 euros !
somethings got to give.

Especially if doing dance music I would think compressors isn't the place to let it 'give'. Static electronic sounds need life pumped into them.......

[mattyc]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Especially if doing dance music I would think compressors isn't the place to let it 'give'. Static electronic sounds need life pumped into them.......

ok i take it all back
im a compressor ***** over here dont worry :D
i dont think EQ is the place for it to give either. there just no give.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by mattyc

maybe swap out a pre or the 560 for another compressor true.
but hey i got an api 2500 and a UBK fatso amongst a heap of other compressors here as well too, but the guys budget only goes to 10,000 euros !
somethings got to give.

haha...

Yeah I guess I was thinking second hand for the API and the FATSO....Im a bit of a second hander myself...you could prob get both for almost €3000 second hand...€10,000 sounds like quite a bit to me but I guess it mounts up...

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by mattyc

ok i take it all back
im a compressor ***** over here dont worry :D
i dont think EQ is the place for it to give either. there just no give.

True. I vote for a nice little mixing desk, maybe 12-16 channels WITH nice eq's and decent/good pres and then a couple of compressors, an interface and a mic. You can get nice synths cheap too, ESQ etc....

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

True. I vote for a nice little mixing desk, maybe 12-16 channels WITH nice eq's and decent/good pres and then a couple of compressors, an interface and a mic. You can get nice synths cheap too, ESQ etc....

I have to say - Ive been looking at the 90s analogue mixer market recently and you can get a Soundtracs Topaz for around £450 now which looks excellent...Im currently ITB using a rack of outboard for saturation and compression (EQ with Nebula) - but I really like the idea of sending 16 DAW channels out to a desk...strapping a couple of compressors over 2 busses...would be awesome to get some hands on mixing and decent EQs and Pres per channel...

Originally Posted by mattyc

ok i take it all back
im a compressor ***** over here dont worry :D

haha yeah I know I think I sold you one last year

[mattyc]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

haha yeah I know I think I sold you one last year

yep. its in the "currently unused pile" but might fish it back out again sometime. I find the API better for widening which was what i was going to use the p38 mainly for.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

I have to say - Ive been looking at the 90s analogue mixer market recently and you can get a Soundtracs Topaz for around £450 now which looks excellent...Im currently ITB using a rack of outboard for saturation and compression (EQ with Nebula) - but I really like the idea of sending 16 DAW channels out to a desk...strapping a couple of compressors over 2 busses...would be awesome to get some hands on mixing and decent EQs and Pres per channel...

Indeed, only to me a Topaz doesn't harbour either of those by a country mile. Cheapest thing still seems to be the Soundcraft Delta...modded especially of course, but not bad as is. Saw a 24ch with 4 band eq's go for about 350 the other day. And there was a Studer 962 12ch on gumtree for 750 believe it or not. That's the kind of thing! 12 great pres and eq's that is!

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Indeed, only to me a Topaz doesn't harbour either of those by a country mile. Cheapest thing still seems to be the Soundcraft Delta...modded especially of course, but not bad as is. Saw a 24ch with 4 band eq's go for about 350 the other day. And there was a Studer 962 12ch on gumtree for 750 believe it or not. That's the kind of thing!

ah ok this is interesting because its something Ive just been looking at - so dont know too much about...so you dont rate the Topaz? I'd heard pretty decent reports of it...will have to look at the Delta...I'd also heard the DDA Interface is quite nice...?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

ah ok this is interesting because its something Ive just been looking at - so dont know too much about...so you dont rate the Topaz? I'd heard pretty decent reports of it...will have to look at the Delta...I'd also heard the DDA Interface is quite nice...?

I only used a Topaz for a week mid 90's but I thought it sucked deeply even then, and taste has gone up since.....perfume coloured knobs that feel like they're going to snap and sound that fizzles through ....not a fan. The Delta however I do like. Slightly furry as standard, but somehow finished stuff doesn't sound furry and it goes big. And I actually like the pres on it too. Kinda papery. Not bad. Musical! Not tried an Interface, but do like DDA. A college I occasionally teach at has an AMR12 which is not bad. Used to like its big brother AMR24 a lot back when.

[kraku]

Originally Posted by just_manu

First, I'll need a good preamp for vocals, and a good mic. (Avalon, Neumann, etc...)

A good mic and preamp is always a good investment. Go for it. Be sure to buy good monitors and some acoustic treatment to your room too so you'll hear clearly what you record and work on. Otherwise your expensive gear is pretty useless.

Originally Posted by just_manu

Second, I need some hardware to run my different tracks (percussion, bass, synths, etc... through it, to give them warmth and phatness. (I don't know if Valve Preamp + Compressor, or just a Valve compressor, or a Culture Vulture + a Compressor).

Warmth and phatness is best achieved right at the source. The more you process your signal with extra gear, the less defined and more muddy your results will be. So don't try to achieve nice sounds by processing them through numerous gadgets. Go for such sound sources that give you the best results right from the box. If you want that analogue "warmth", use analogue drum machines and analogue synths in the first place. Processing digitally created sounds with analogue gear doesn't give the same results at all.

Originally Posted by just_manu

I've been trying to know what pro's have in their studios, but I have found anything :(.

Most of them are completely ITB and have only midi controller/keyboard which they use to play soft synths. Not many of them use external gear for audio processing.

LennarDigital Sylenth1 and FXpansion DCAM SynthSquad seem to be very popular these days with the pros writing dance music, especially house/electro-house/progressive-house styles.

Don't blow your money on random gear when you're not sure what you really want and need. Start by choosing ONE DAW software like Live/Logic/Cubase and experiment with that for a few weeks. Then buy one softsynth and maybe a drum sampler or something if you feel like it and stick with them for about 6 months. At this point you should have a much better understanding what should be your next purchase.

Originally Posted by just_manu

What would be your best buy for making a good studio for ONLY electronic music (house music)????

Please, I need a lot of helpful answers from people who produces this kind of music.

I'm writing mostly electronic music and from time to time also write dance floor stuff (electro/tech/progressive-house). I also feel that my current personal selection of gear wouldn't work for most other dance floor musicians. It's all about the nuances of the sounds that inspire you and the workflow you get with your whole setup. Every musician is a very different person and everyone's studio is usually a strong reflection of personal tastes and ways of working.

But if I had to buy as minimal and pro sounding setup as possible right now, it would probably be something like this:
- good monitors like Genelec 8250A's
- some acoustic treatment to the room
- a powerful computer with lots of memory
- some pretty decent audio interface like Apogee Duet or RME Fireface 400
- Logic Pro (DAW software)
- Native Instruments Battery (for drums, but you can also use it as a more traditional sampler)
- LennarDigital Sylenth1 (for those super-digital crispy clear VA sounds)
- DCAM SynthSquad (for those more analogue character VA sounds)
- SoundToys EchoBoy (delay)
- Lexicon PCM Native Reverb
- Cytomic Glue (compressor)
- some good mastering limiter plugin

That's pretty much it. I might also consider adding an FM synth and a very flexible sampler in there, depending on what kind of sound/production I'm heading for.

[AMIEL]

Stay away of the Central Station..degrades de sound and will be defective sooner or later.

[tobiasvangils]

AMIEL:
why stay away from the central station?
I heard alot of positive things.

[ArisA]

Im in the same position, or lets better say, i "was" in the same position, as i now got everything except the BAE1084.

I also had 10000$, made a thread here, ok finally made some . I produced like 10 years only with computer. So im also new to the outboard business stuff. People here are very nice and help you. After months of reading, asking, listen to audio samples and researching i think i got a very nice first setup with what you can make very pro sounding records. It finally cost about 15000$ tho.

So what i bought is the following:

For Vocals:

Microphone Neumann U87 Vintage (Ok, this one was expensive, but i wanted a classic fat mic for my singer)
Shure Sm7b (for kinda MC)


Monitoring:
PMC TB2Smkii

(have them since 2 weeks, i produced one song on those speakers last weekend, and damn, it sounds as it should!!! ABSOLUT FCKING PROFESSIONAL MIX, someone told me someday, lots of people have problems with the PMC's when they get them new, as the older mixes just sound crap on the PMC's...Yes some did, but i HEARD and FELT what sounded Crap. Cant understand who or how you wont mix great on those awesome speakers!!! In 2 days i produced a breakbeat song incl. mixing and it sounds HUGE!!! Better, Fatter than everything i ever did. I released some vinyls on some good labels (used to produce drum and bass), so my sound was not bad, had support from well known Dj's aso. Hope you dont get me wrong, i just want to say/make clear my mixes already sounded "pro". My mixes sound at least 1000% better, no joke . Theres not 1 frequency that plays somewhere i dont want it to play, very very clean. If your mix doesnt sound good, go back to EQ/Dynamics/Modulatin, process the sound exactly as you want it, on the PMC's nothing easier than that.)

I want to say, if you have the 4000$ for a pair, GET THEM!!! The best monitor for what you get and trust me they are beautiful, youll never look back.

For Dance you might consider a sub. Right now i dont feel i need it as i hear and feel the bass quite good.


Preamp for Vocals and fatten up sounds:

BAE 1084 Preamp (of course mainly for the mics but i will also run my Juno and my Alchemy Synths throug --> MAGIC !!!)
Also Check other Neve "style" preamps, 1073, 1081, BAE1023 aso. After months of reading i know API Preamps/Eqs are also great . The possibility of getting great analog gear in a smaller format is called Lunchbox. Search for it (API Lunchbox). You might save some money. Dont ask me why i didnt choose this as you might save some $ with this. I considered this aswell. I might buy it someday to get some extra eq/Comp/preamp possibilities.

Converters:

SSL Alpha Link Madi SX for ADC/DAC (I guess the best deal you get for Quality/Channels/Cost. 24 Analog i/o + 64 Digital Madi + 12 AES/EBU)

Benchmark DAC1 for Monitoring, actually a Matering Converter to get the signal from PC to Speakers as best and clean as possible (over AES from SSL Alpha Link to PMC's)
RME Hdsp Madi to connect Alpha Link to PC and

Then i also have some plugins, SOME not alot, but the ones i have are the ones u need imo (Nebula, Oxford Elite Bundle, Alchemy Synthesizer (best SoftSynth imo), Brainworx bx_control, Waves S1-Imager, Nugen Visualizer + some freeware things)

I treated my room with DIY BassTraps and Panels (search on this forum, youll find what you need) + IK Multimedia ARC

Im definately looking for some 1176/Distressor + lastly ive seen some threads about guys who rebuild classic analog gear, some of this stuff looks PORN

thts my opinion

all the best

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by ArisA

Monitoring:
PMC TB2Smkii

I've heard that the PMC are more a mid-field monitors than near-field. My studio has the tipical bedroom size :-/

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by just_manu

I've heard that the PMC are more a mid-field monitors than near-field. My studio has the tipical bedroom size :-/

I have TB1's (same size) in a small bedroom studio. Sound great. Fair amount of room treatment though. In the context of this thread and budget just to mention I got them second hand for £300 (you can get second hand passive TB2's for not much more), pair up with a Jim Williams modded Adcom 545 = great monitoring for about £650 all in tops......just a thought.

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I have TB1's (same size) in a small bedroom studio. Sound great. Fair amount of room treatment though. In the context of this thread and budget just to mention I got them second hand for £300 (you can get second hand passive TB2's for not much more), pair up with a Jim Williams modded Adcom 545 = great monitoring for about £650 all in tops......just a thought.

Nice tip - what is the bass response like on the TB1? Decent upgrade from Mackie HR624?
Did you import the Jim Williams amp?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Nice tip - what is the bass response like on the TB1? Decent upgrade from Mackie HR624?
Did you import the Jim Williams amp?

Same as TB2's, happy down to 40Hz and without bass reflex port farting in your face, just real sounding bass. Running a C audio amp at the mo, but the Williams-Adcom is arriving any day now. Ebay US straight to Audio Upgrades.

Don't know the 624's, but from having used the 824's to me, yes definitely (already with the C audio amp)! Bearing in mind the 824's feel like Genelec wannabes to me and do the same thing as Genny nearfields as in disorientate me more than anything. Everything glassy, no clue what's what. Big Genelecs are cool, but never 'got' the smaller ones nor the Mackies. The PMC's 1. make a shape of sound I can relate to, 2. tell me plenty detail, 3. have VERY cool presentation of compression, 4. go down enough in my size room (smallish) to feel fairly full range= sweet!

[just_manu]

I didn't think that changing the monitors was necesary. But after your comments....... I must ask...... Do you guys think that the Mackie are not good enough??

Why would you have another ones instead of these?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by just_manu

I didn't think that changing the monitors was necesary. But after your comments....... I must ask...... Do you guys think that the Mackie are not good enough??

Why would you have another ones instead of these?

People have gotten fine results with them and if they do not get in your way I wouldn't worry too much. Not my personal preference though.

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by tobiasvangils

he manu how are you?

interesting, I'm also really into house music so I'll try and help you.

first basic. Make sure your PC is good, otherwise get a Mac Pro or the new MBP.

Then most imporant. acoustics.
It sounds boring but its damn important.
For around 1 to 2k you can get great acoustic treatment for your room. some good basstraps and panels and position them wisely. The speakers are also imporant
I would recommend a true sounding setup.

- Event Opals (one of the best for house music)
- presonus central station, does not colour the sound and u can connect both pair of speakers, so the events and the mackie's
- good interface: something like a Apogee ensemble if you get a mac, or RME. make sure that you have enough I/O's in case you expand to a big hardware setup over the years.
- midi-keyboard. fatar numa for real piano feeling or otherwise m-audio etc. all good.
- some panels for the speakers to stand on, is really cheap
- NOT important: but I always like a nice working enviroment, so e.g. an used argosy workstation desk for 500 dollar. then you also got space for the rack stuff and it looks damn pretty

on the hardware:
check the Virus TI (and the polar TI) Total integration is really important in my opinion. I HATE recalling stuff on synths like the nord rack.
the moogs are also good, so a moog slim/little phatty e.g.

mic preamp/mic.
If you get the apogee ensemble you already got 4 high-end mic pres.
I'll use those, if not take e.g. an avalon, but thats expensive.
take a loog at the GAP pre 73. it's like a neve and only 300$
for the mics try some different ones. if you record your own voice try test some in the shop
Or get a Shure Sm57, Sm58 and 2 others like a neumann, audio-technica etc. etc.


and a lavalamp for inspiration.
Depending on how you like to work maybe a DAW-controller. The MC control v2 is great in my opinion. not to expensive and great to use. a lot of functions.

goodluck and PM me in case you have any questions


ps. the outboard gear that famous house musicians have is 95% for processing vocals. some guys like deadmau5 have more, but those are exceptions

I have a Toshiba Laptop i7, It FLIES !!

I have all the studio padded with copopren. Now I'm going to buy some difussors to give the room a little bit more life.

Do you think the Opals will be a good buy for a small room? I certainly think I'd love to have a pair of them, but I don't know if the 8" will be too much for my room (the same has happens with my Mackie).

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by tobiasvangils

he manu how are you?

interesting, I'm also really into house music so I'll try and help you.

first basic. Make sure your PC is good, otherwise get a Mac Pro or the new MBP.

Then most imporant. acoustics.
It sounds boring but its damn important.
For around 1 to 2k you can get great acoustic treatment for your room. some good basstraps and panels and position them wisely. The speakers are also imporant
I would recommend a true sounding setup.

- Event Opals (one of the best for house music)
- presonus central station, does not colour the sound and u can connect both pair of speakers, so the events and the mackie's
- good interface: something like a Apogee ensemble if you get a mac, or RME. make sure that you have enough I/O's in case you expand to a big hardware setup over the years.
- midi-keyboard. fatar numa for real piano feeling or otherwise m-audio etc. all good.
- some panels for the speakers to stand on, is really cheap
- NOT important: but I always like a nice working enviroment, so e.g. an used argosy workstation desk for 500 dollar. then you also got space for the rack stuff and it looks damn pretty

on the hardware:
check the Virus TI (and the polar TI) Total integration is really important in my opinion. I HATE recalling stuff on synths like the nord rack.
the moogs are also good, so a moog slim/little phatty e.g.

mic preamp/mic.
If you get the apogee ensemble you already got 4 high-end mic pres.
I'll use those, if not take e.g. an avalon, but thats expensive.
take a loog at the GAP pre 73. it's like a neve and only 300$
for the mics try some different ones. if you record your own voice try test some in the shop
Or get a Shure Sm57, Sm58 and 2 others like a neumann, audio-technica etc. etc.


and a lavalamp for inspiration.
Depending on how you like to work maybe a DAW-controller. The MC control v2 is great in my opinion. not to expensive and great to use. a lot of functions.

goodluck and PM me in case you have any questions


ps. the outboard gear that famous house musicians have is 95% for processing vocals. some guys like deadmau5 have more, but those are exceptions

I have a Toshiba Laptop i7, It FLIES !!

I have all the studio padded with copopren. Now I'm going to buy some difussors to give the room a little bit more life.

Do you think the Opals will be a good buy for a small room? I certainly think I'd love to have a pair of them, but I don't know if the 8" will be too much for my room (the same has happens with my Mackie).

Thank you so much !

[just_manu]

Originally Posted by SWAN808

Considering you have some budget. There will be many options but here is what I might suggest which will be top for Electronic music:

How about a Thermionix Rooster to track vocals and run your stuff thru to give it some size and warmth?

Also you could consider a FATSO / UBK FATSO for fattening and channel compression.

Get a API2500 for your drum buss...the lowly Focusrite compounder can be awesome for house kicks (bass expand) plus a SPL Transient designer...

You can do acoustic treatment for much less than 1k if you do DIY. I built a load of traps like the ones halfway down this page which are fantastic and easy. Bass Traps

Your Konnekt is ok but you might consider an upgrade to a Steinberg MR816. Also perhaps a monitor upgrade...Opals are very nice - or Adam A7.

Your synth choice looks good however consider a Voyager Rack Mount - it offers more and personally I think its better for house music. A Virus TI/Snow is also a good choice but really - you can do very nicely with DCAM synth squad + Gladiator 2.

If you want to work to a lesser budget with the outboard look at the Overstayer line of gear...great prices...

Hi !

Well..... I've thought of buying a Culture Vulture, instead of a Fatso. And add a compressor after that, such as Brawner 1968. What do u think?

About speakers... I see that you like the Opals and de A7. I've read very good reviews about both, but they are in too different price range !! I think the difference between both must be too big.

What about my actual monitors? Haven't u had good experiences with them?

Thank you so much for your answer !