Tonelux... maybe the Toft ATB, give me an opinion for what i'm doing..

[Solunaris]

I record mainly rock music. When I record guitars, I use different amps and cabinets and usually have at least two mics on each one. I have outboard mic pre's that I use (chandler TG2 and SCA N72's) and I want a mixer to run the output of the pre's into with EQ to shape the guitars on the way in, and then sum each of the mics on each cab to one channel to commit and make it easier for me in the mix. So something with an 8-channel buss and eq would do. I looked at the tonelux website and didn't understand exactly how to set that up. I guess 8 of the TR8 buss selectors, 8 EQs, and 8 i dunno? Help with figuring that would be cool as well. The ATB has all that but I just don't know how it lives up to what I want sonically. I have the stereotypical apogee ad16x/da16x, lynx aes16, nuendo setup. The one thing the ATB offers as well is a monitoring section and a summing buss plus the EQ and 8 sub-outs I want.

[Solunaris]

Anyone? Mr. Wolf himself? I dunno, I have money and it wants to be spent haha.

[midnightsun]

I was in a similar boat and finally decided on Tonelux. It was a tough choice. The flexibility of the Tonelux was a big plus for me. Tonelux gear is expensive but I only have to buy the modules that apply to my application. Here is what Tonelux isn't--- it is not a simple over the counter box, board, or console that you order and figure out what it is supposed to do when it arrives. I had to figure out exactly what I was looking for before finalizing my order. Then Tonelux takes a while to have assembled. Paul Wolff was dead on when he said that a Tonelux system would force me to really understand audio signal flow.

Once I get my basic Tonelux rig and have a chance to use my ear and get a feel for it I will make the decision of whether or not to really flesh the system out with racks of Tonelux pres & EQs, automated faders etc. The system sure as hell makes sense to me and I am hoping for best. I hit on David at Sonic Circus to help me configure my order because he seems to have the personality to deal with my endless stream of questions and I believe that he wants to really get it right for me. Talk to me in a month or two.

My bias is that I think that digital summing will get better and better as time goes on and APPROACH the quality of premium analog summing. I am not convinced that digital summing is going to get there before my hearing goes to shit. I think that digital summing has equaled and surpassed the prosumer consoles. Therefore, why would I want to just get a better console. I don't want to play leap frog.... I'm to cheap.

[Jacklynn]

Do you consider ther Toft ATB console to be a prosumer console?

[Solunaris]

yeah kinda, i rather have the tonelux if I could figure how to configure one of these things

[midnightsun]

Originally Posted by Jacklynn

Do you consider ther Toft ATB console to be a prosumer console?

In all fairness I have to say that I haven't heard the Toft. It may end up being the biggest bang for the buck ever for its cost point. I don't want to sound like a snob nor a fool, but I just don't want to look back and even consider moving on to something better. My impression of Tonelux (which I haven't heard either) is based on it being discrete modular components made by a guy Paul Wolff who I think is visionary in hybriding analog and digital.

Originally Posted by arrogantbastard

yeah kinda, i rather have the tonelux if I could figure how to configure one of these things

I think the choices are #1 order an API or Neve console and spend the next couple of years growing into it and paying for it. #2 order an over the over the counter modestly priced console, read the manual, plug it in a create. #3 Dig in and figure out the audio pathway that will work for you today. The Tonelux websitte leaves something to be desired! If you are trying to understand how to configure a rig you need to click on TECH on the website for examples. If I had only known this I wouldn't have had to do so much head scratching. A person could start by putting together a straight forward summing bus, and as budget allows add to the system without having to set any off the modules aside.

In reality all of my opinions are based in theory and my belief if Paul Wolff's vision. I hope to use my own ear and hands in the near future and I hope validate my opinions.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by midnightsun

My impression of Tonelux (which I haven't heard either) is based on it being discrete modular components made by a guy Paul Wolff who I think is visionary in hybriding analog and digital.


I think the choices are #1 order an API or Neve console and spend the next couple of years growing into it and paying for it. #2 order an over the over the counter modestly priced console, read the manual, plug it in a create. #3 Dig in and figure out the audio pathway that will work for you today. The Tonelux websitte leaves something to be desired! If you are trying to understand how to configure a rig you need to click on TECH on the website for examples. If I had only known this I wouldn't have had to do so much head scratching.

Something to be desired... I thought having a category called "TECH" would be clear enough... Anyway, I understand the issues, as what I am offering does require an engineer to think about designing a console, which is not something that many care to learn about, which makes perfect sense.

One recent customer told me, after receiving a system and contacted me to say "now what do I do?". This made me realize that what I know and assume is not the standard, rather the exception, so every chance I get, I generate assistance on the site with diagrams and info. After spending some time with the customer, he wrote me back and said that

"..at first, I was completely lost with this stuff, but after you spent some time making the documents and explaining to me the way things went together and why, I finally have a clear vision of signal flow, which has helped me make better recordings, because I now understand signal flow..."

One thing to realize in this day and age of the DAW, with the ability to set up everything within the DAW is great information, but because everything is internally matched in a way, one doesn't learn about levels, loading, multing, phase and distortion the same way that most engineers used to because it was almost required to survive.

With the Tonelux system, being the basis of a real console, and not all hooked up inside an existing box, which would include the largest to the smallest consoles, there is a certain about of information that you will have to know to get it all working.

It is very non-technical, mostly common sense, but it is different than what many have already learned. Just look at it as another session sitting on the pot learning a new piece of software...

The payoff is great, not only because, as with any OTB summer/mixer, you get a different tone, but you also learn about analog signal flow, which is very important.

I am not trying to advertise just my system, as this information is true with any analog console/summing/mixing solution that a person may purchase. I think the value learned from an experience like this will pay you back many times over down the road.

[zimv20]

paul -- if someone who owns your system buys additional modules, is installing them simply a matter of screwing them in and plugging in any cables, or is there some kind of additional configuration/tweaking/calibration that must occur?

thanks

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by zimv20

paul -- if someone who owns your system buys additional modules, is installing them simply a matter of screwing them in and plugging in any cables, or is there some kind of additional configuration/tweaking/calibration that must occur?

thanks

Well, you do need to be able to enrich Uranium, but other than that, a screw driver is all you need.

It is very simple to add to, and nothing from the original system gets unused. Everything can be reconfigured.

[zimv20]

thanks paul. i guess my batch of Technetium is going up on ebay.

[allaccess]

I plan on using my Tonelux system to record, as the arrogantbastard is, as well as mix. I'm into the same kind of guitar tracking, but mix all the mics down to 1 track, unless it's a stereo sound. I plan on using the stereo buss or aux sends while recording, doing ruffs ITB and monitoring through the CR-2 monitor section... The EQ's are amazing, the mic pre's are awesome (though I have yet to use them on gtr) and the mix buss sounds 20 feet tall. And you can make it whatever you want, and expand it when you want! My wishlist is quite long even given what I've already ordered!

configuring the system is really straightforward as these things go, but I have an EE degree! It's really just a question of figuring out what you want to be able to accomplish and choosing the right modules. and then if you're serious about it, build a patch bay and rock like a grown up. I will post pictures and diagrams of my system when it's finished...

Cheers,

Ryan Hewitt

[Solunaris]

Thanks for the post Ryan. BTW, I love your work on Ataxia - Automatic Writing.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by arrogantbastard

Thanks for the post Ryan. BTW, I love your work on Ataxia - Automatic Writing.

I've heard some of the mixes on the new Chili's record that Ryan is mixing, and the TX portion of the tracks are huge. He is using the system he has to the extreme, inluding 12 EQs, 12 input modules and the motorized fader system.

The dual CD release should do well, it sounds like them, but has a very, very good sound. It sounds more finished than records of past. That is Ryan...

[GPl]

Originally Posted by allaccess

I plan on using my Tonelux system to record, as the arrogantbastard is, as well as mix. I'm into the same kind of guitar tracking, but mix all the mics down to 1 track, unless it's a stereo sound. I plan on using the stereo buss or aux sends while recording, doing ruffs ITB and monitoring through the CR-2 monitor section... The EQ's are amazing, the mic pre's are awesome (though I have yet to use them on gtr) and the mix buss sounds 20 feet tall. And you can make it whatever you want, and expand it when you want! My wishlist is quite long even given what I've already ordered!

configuring the system is really straightforward as these things go, but I have an EE degree! It's really just a question of figuring out what you want to be able to accomplish and choosing the right modules. and then if you're serious about it, build a patch bay and rock like a grown up. I will post pictures and diagrams of my system when it's finished...

Cheers,

Ryan Hewitt

Looking forward to your pics and diagrams Ryan

[not_so_new]

Hi Paul.

I got to tell ya I don't have an EE degree but I do know about signal flow and analog consoles and your site still confused the hell out of me...



Not complaining, I hope you take this as healthy criticism as it is intended to be. It just seems like your product is so kick a$$ but because it is a pretty big leap especially for people coming from DAW recording backgrounds it would help if the site were a little more clear perhaps? I come from an analog background and I am stumped with all the different modules and such I can only imagine what someone who has never worked on a large format console would think.

I think you have such a great vision on what this system is capable of and what you imagine it can do that you may have taken for granted that your potential customers have taken the leap with you. Many of us are on the other side of the ravine wondering what the hell happened.



For example, I think I know the answers to most of these questions but..... On your PDF price listing there is a thing called a TX-Frack, 16 channel 100mm fader rack that lists for $279, what the heck is this? Is it just faders only and it does not accept other modules? Do they pass audio or do they just send control voltage to the line inputs on another rack? Do I need 2 racks to use these with inputs? Do I have to use these with the MX2 or can the MX2 stand alone? Speaking of the MX2, can it take two inputs and buss them to one master section? If I have a DA-16X with 16 DA converters coming from my DAW can I use 8 MX2's and still have 8 open slots on the VRack?

I can make some assumptions on the above questions and I think I know the answers for the most part but really the more guessing I do the more I wonder if I am right about anything.

Again I am not bashing you or your product. Quite the contrary, I am so intrigued by the idea that I would like to learn more but I am confused.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Hi Paul.

I got to tell ya I don't have an EE degree but I do know about signal flow and analog consoles and your site still confused the hell out of me...

Tell me what you would like to see and I will put it up. Consoles are usually all hooked up inside so even with a EE, this is confusing. I, because of my concept, are bringing the inside to the outside, so there is a lot of learning, but we have pre configured systems, and the dealers that we have are required to be able to work on consoles, so when they do a system, it is complete, so it isn't all bad...

Not complaining, I hope you take this as healthy criticism as it is intended to be. It just seems like your product is so kick a$$ but because it is a pretty big leap especially for people coming from DAW recording backgrounds it would help if the site were a little more clear perhaps? I come from an analog background and I am stumped with all the different modules and such I can only imagine what someone who has never worked on a large format console would think.

I think you have such a great vision on what this system is capable of and what you imagine it can do that you may have taken for granted that your potential customers have taken the leap with you. Many of us are on the other side of the ravine wondering what the hell happened.

It is a huge, fast change in the industry, and it's like having the rug pulled out from under you. I am trying to give the option of a simple good sounding summing box, all the way to a complete console at the best price possible. This means that we all have to change our ways and save money by doing some of the front end work. I also think that it is important that studios have something in front of them that you can touch, as 2 monitors and a computer won't get you above a certain price point with rates. Proof of this is all the controllers and the Icon.

For example, I think I know the answers to most of these questions but..... On your PDF price listing there is a thing called a TX-Frack, 16 channel 100mm fader rack that lists for $279, what the heck is this? Is it just faders only and it does not accept other modules? Do they pass audio or do they just send control voltage to the line inputs on another rack? Do I need 2 racks to use these with inputs? Do I have to use these with the MX2 or can the MX2 stand alone? Speaking of the MX2, can it take two inputs and buss them to one master section? If I have a DA-16X with 16 DA converters coming from my DAW can I use 8 MX2's and still have 8 open slots on the VRack?

The Frack is just a rack to hold the faders. 8) MX2s would need a summing master (SM2), so you would have 6 open slots. For summing only, I would go with the FX2 and the FX2+. Email me with your idea and I;ll have Gil do a quote.

I can make some assumptions on the above questions and I think I know the answers for the most part but really the more guessing I do the more I wonder if I am right about anything.

Again I am not bashing you or your product. Quite the contrary, I am so intrigued by the idea that I would like to learn more but I am confused.

It is a new horizon, and I don't think anyone really knows what to do next. I do think the direction with the DAW and summing is the right one.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

Tell me what you would like to see and I will put it up. Consoles are usually all hooked up inside so even with a EE, this is confusing. I, because of my concept, are bringing the inside to the outside, so there is a lot of learning, but we have pre configured systems, and the dealers that we have are required to be able to work on consoles, so when they do a system, it is complete, so it isn't all bad...

It is a huge, fast change in the industry, and it's like having the rug pulled out from under you. I am trying to give the option of a simple good sounding summing box, all the way to a complete console at the best price possible. This means that we all have to change our ways and save money by doing some of the front end work. I also think that it is important that studios have something in front of them that you can touch, as 2 monitors and a computer won't get you above a certain price point with rates. Proof of this is all the controllers and the Icon.

The Frack is just a rack to hold the faders. 8) MX2s would need a summing master (SM2), so you would have 6 open slots. For summing only, I would go with the FX2 and the FX2+. Email me with your idea and I;ll have Gil do a quote.

It is a new horizon, and I don't think anyone really knows what to do next. I do think the direction with the DAW and summing is the right one.

Hi Paul

Actually I did send you an email about this an hour or so ago, your response was lighting fast!! Thanks!

Again I hope you don't take the above as a knock on your product. It was not intended to be, just some constructive criticism on the site more than anything.

I do understand that this is a radically new way to look at a "console" so there is going to be a learning curve but as I said I have looked at your page before and never felt I had a good grasp on the details.

For example, you are saying that I should be looking at the FX2 and the FX2+? That is totally different than I would have thought.

*shrug*

Not to hijack the thread but with the FX and the FX2+ is it possible to send a stereo pair back to the AD converter and the same stereo pair to my monitors? I would like to get rid of my DAC-1 and feed my monitors with the outs of a console (not that I don't like the DAC-1, I would just like to condense my rig). Obviously the whole idea of a summing console is to feed the 2 buss to a storage medium so I would need two stereo buss outs, one for the speakers and one for the AD converters back into the DAW, does the FX2+ do this for me? I am jsut a little lost on that part.

Lastly you are saying that I would have 6 open slots with the config above right? Can I use EQ in each of these 6 slots and patch them into the summing chain somehow? Again these are the types of questions that I am still a little fuzzy on after reading your site.

[ddageek]

First off this this new school console concept is very old- old school! When the industry went to mamouth Wallmart like dealers and small MI stores they gave us prefab this is how you get it consoles cause they were cheap to build 100 cookie cutter boards and less time consumeing to sell and configure! (this is how its set up howmany inputs would you like)!
Now along comes Paul Wolf, ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/image...s/piss2.gifWho THE #$*& dose he think he is building a set of modules that will let you build what you want and pretty much let you lay it out how you want too! Damn You MR Wolf! God you guys are going to be busy everybody and his brothers going to be configureing his dream system! (including yours truely)!
a couple of questions and suggesions first to Tonelux
1 when using the remote fader is the roteary fader over ridden?
2 How about changeing the color of the pan control knob ( if I had the remote fader I see myself grabing the rotary faer very time I reached for the pan (maybe an mx-2 without the rotary fader option for those ordering remote faders?
3 How about chassies designed around popular control surfaces yeah you have your automation system, but It would be cool to have channels arianged in line with pro control or Mackie control ect?
4 is it possible to have custom x over points slopes on the LF modules (my biggest bitch about most control room sections for those who try to incorporate multiple monitors with a single sub system is that there are no means of tailoring the system for each configureation ( but I think with some creative impementation you might have solved that problem!
For those who are thinking about this system don't look for the cheapest way to get by! Do it right lay a ground plan and let it grow!
Thank you Paul If I was still at Full Compass I would be begging Jonathan to take on this liine and Make me Tonelux Product specialist! Okay that way the demo system would be my dream console and someone else would pay for it!
I now know where all my omoney is going (should we just set up a monthly direct doposite from my bank to yours once I save up for the basics? Because I see at least a module a month for a long time in my future!

Thank you MR Wolf!******//www.gearslutz.com/board/image.../leapfroga.gif