Production workshop - Page 2

Dave Martin · 16th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener
Bring 'em on.

Well, stuff that might be of interest includes:
UA 1176 (pair)
Purple 1176 (pair)
Tube Tech CL-1B
UA La-2A
Meek SC-2
Daking (pair)
Peavey TCL-2
Millennia
Manley Vari-Mu
Manley ELOP
GE BA-9B

And some others. I don't know that I'd enjoy unracking all of it, but if you want, I'll do what I can...

By the way, from looking at your list, you and I have almost completely different collections of compressors. I think we only have the Distressors, the Trakkers, the Summits and the 1969 in common. Well, and the FMR, though I haven't seen mine in a year or two (Someone borrowed it and won't give it back...)

**mwagener** · 16th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Martin
Well, stuff that might be of interest includes:
UA 1176 (pair)
Purple 1176 (pair)
Tube Tech CL-1B
UA La-2A
Meek SC-2
Daking (pair)
Peavey TCL-2
Millennia
Manley Vari-Mu
Manley ELOP
GE BA-9B

And some others. I don't know that I'd enjoy unracking all of it, but if you want, I'll do what I can...

By the way, from looking at your list, you and I have almost completely different collections of compressors. I think we only have the Distressors, the Trakkers, the Summits and the 1969 in common. Well, and the FMR, though I haven't seen mine in a year or two (Someone borrowed it and won't give it back...)

Thank you Dave.

I'm not sure if Fletcher is sending a pair of Dakins, I think he mentioned it today. Since we mainly are doing a comparison for stereo bus compressors, the two Manleys would be great to have on there.

I wish those all would be "MY" compressors on that list. I have a few more that are not on the list but I either only have one or I don't consider them for stereo bus compression (ie 1176).

Dave Martin · 16th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener
Thank you Dave.

I'm not sure if Fletcher is sending a pair of Dakins, I think he mentioned it today. Since we mainly are doing a comparison for stereo bus compressors, the two Manleys would be great to have on there.

No problem. I'd also suggest the Millennia (a couple of the guys on the Mastering list are using it ), as well as the Meek SC-2 (you never know - it 'might' work)

The MPCist · 16th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener

I emailed MPCist and told him about the possibility of shorter/cheaper workshops in the future. What I am thinking of is long weekends (my girlfriend is going to kill me...), Friday through Monday (4 days) but then split up into recording and mixing on different weekends. That might be more affordable, financially and timewise. Also, what about the possibility of a "get-out-of-the-box" ProTools mixing session, where people bring their PT files and we mix them together at WireWorld, outside of the DAW. Waddaya think?

Yeah, I got the email from Michael. I think it's a good idea for guys like me who don't got cash to spare! :(

Make sure to post any future workshops on the forum!

drew · 19th August 2003

How's it going?

toledo3 · 19th August 2003

Ooohh, squeezebox. Where is the Homer Drool emoticon when you need it

MMazurek · 19th August 2003

Also,

Any news on the 'end of Sept - beginning of Oct' workshop???

How can I get my name in?

**mwagener** · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
How's it going?

It's going great. We have been putting in some long hours and as soon as we get some sleep we'll post some pictures etc.

**mwagener** · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by MMazurek
Also,

Any news on the 'end of Sept - beginning of Oct' workshop???

How can I get my name in?

I don't have any dates for Workshop 3 yet. I was thinking to do it around AES in October, so people from Europe could attend if they are in the country for AES anyway. What time would be good for everybody? How does an October 15th start date sound?

Please email me at mwagener@comcast.net .

blackcatdigi · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by drew
How's it going?

Well, I'm here, so if I may be so bold as to respond:

In just one word, Fantastic!

Michael has just been super... Whatta guy! Michael's trusty assistant Ryu is a study in what a good intern should be.

The band (and their material) is great, and the project sounds incredible! The drums went down with no processing(!), no eq, no compression, just mics in a room, and it is (without a doubt), a SUPERIOR drum sound. Ditto for bass, guitars (electric and acoustic 6 & 12 string), and violins... The only exception (to the lack of any processing whatsoever), has been the lead vocal which was EQ'd and comp'd on the way in...

The track we're recording simply sounds like a record. I just don't know another way to describe it... A game of inches, not miles, accumulated.

Michael has made many suggestions (with regards to mic selection, placement, and pres) but at the same time, has welcomed (and very much encouraged) any suggestions from us, as well. We have auditioned somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 or 50 mics on the drumset, 20 or so on electric guitars, etc. We've recorded each mic on each source through the same mic pres (to individual tracks), just to level the playing field. We have auditioned (seemingly) almost every applicable mic and pre on each source, and we have not disagreed on a single conclusion! Completely unanimous decisons, by comittee... There have been MANY surprises for us all! (Much more on that topic to come.)

We spent the first 2 days completely on mic selection and mic pres, placement and phase coherence, just on the drums! (And then the drummer nailed the take in about 10 minutes!) Man, it hurt to tear those mics down after all that!

Michael has been absolutely fanatical with getting the right sound at the source, mic selection, placement, blend, phase coherence (perhaps 2nd most importantly-The IBPs are really earning their keep around here!), and most importantly... Great Performances. I can't tell you how many times the band has been denied ANY 'PT style' fixes... To quote Michael, "No. We actually [have to] play it right around here..." There IS a difference.

To wind this post down, in summary (cuz we're back at it, bright and early):

It is an absolute priveledge just to be able to take part in this very special opportunity. In fact, had the workshop been over after the first day, I would have considered it money very well spent. The fact that we are taking a project completely through the entire process under Michael's guidance is absolutely priceless...

I'm honored to be here.

blackcatdigi · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Martin
Well, stuff that might be of interest includes:
(snip)
Tube Tech CL-1B

Hi Dave!

If its not too much trouble, could you possibly bring the CL1B, as well?

I'd love for Michael to check it out...

TIA / See you then / I'll have a fresh pot of joe on for ya!

fatty · 21st August 2003

pictures please!

blackcatdigi · 21st August 2003

Geez, Gimme a break, I'm on dialup here!!!

**mwagener** · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by fatty
pictures please!

Coming up soon, when the band is out of the studio (possibly today), the schedule is going to ease up a bit.

Dave Martin · 21st August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by blackcatdigi
Hi Dave!

If its not too much trouble, could you possibly bring the CL1B, as well?

I'd love for Michael to check it out...

TIA / See you then / I'll have a fresh pot of joe on for ya!

Sure - I'll be coming out early this afternoon. If that's not convenient, Michael has my cell number.

mpr3 · 22nd August 2003

I am also here in Nashville at the August workshop and I concur with everything blackcatdigi has said. This is simply an awesome experience that I will never forget.

Here is a link to some pictures thus far, more will come soon.

There is so much gear here that my head spins thinking about all the possible combinations of mics/mic pres/placements that are possible at Wireworld. Mic selection/placement and micpre selection have so far been the crux of the workshop and words cannot describe how impressed I am with the sounds we are getting direct to tape (digital).

Tonight after finally tracking the last bit of background vocals I sat in front of the RAW 46 track mix (one band of EQ on vocals with a distressor, and one band of EQ on toms) . With faders pretty much up, I marvelled at how HUGE the mix already sounds. We start the real mixing tomorrow morning.

Here are a few basic things I have learned thus far:

1. Time flies when you are having fun.
2. Small improvements from proper Mic selection/placement and preamp selection soon add up to improvements so large that they are obvious from outer space.
3. You can never have enough gear.
4. Knowing what to listen for is more important than the quality of your hearing.

Will share more later, but basically this whole project gets a HUGE

and I obviously recommend anyone who has a chance to attend one of these things to jump all over it if possible. 30 years of trial and error has obviously paid off for Michael and he is more than willing to share his secrets with us! What a great host!

**mwagener** · 22nd August 2003

Why is this man smiling?

flawedmusic · 22nd August 2003

The fans in the rack for the spider are coolio!

MMazurek · 22nd August 2003

I smiled like that too, when I got my shirt.

trses335 · 22nd August 2003

Quote:

2. Small improvements from proper Mic selection/placement and preamp selection soon add up to improvements so large that they are obvious from outer space.

This is one of the coolest things I've ever read.

David R. · 22nd August 2003

mpr3 or Michael, got a question and some comments about the wonderful pictures posted:

The female violinist - she looks like someone I used to play with and have been trying to get in touch with. Could you PM me with her first name?

Love the pic of the guitarist blanket with 8 mics!

It's obvious to me, the studio vibe and the lava lamps - Michael Wagner is Mixerman!

flexoffset · 22nd August 2003

Three cheers for the 'University of Wireworld" !!!!!

What pieces of equpment have made the most difference thusfar?

In general terms, what has surprised you guys most?

renshen · 22nd August 2003

Looks like a great time...I'll be there soon
Where are you guys staying, hotel's ????
Thanks

**mwagener** · 23rd August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by MMazurek
I smiled like that too, when I got my shirt.

exactly

especially since this shirt came with some gear thrown in...

**mwagener** · 23rd August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by David R.
... It's obvious to me, the studio vibe and the lava lamps - Michael Wagner is Mixerman!

OH NO, pleeezzzeee, NO!!!

**mwagener** · 23rd August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by flexoffset
Three cheers for the 'University of Wireworld" !!!!!

What pieces of equpment have made the most difference thusfar?

In general terms, what has surprised you guys most?

Well, the biggest difference during the recording part of the workshop was made by mic selection, mic placement and micpre selection. The mic selection and placement was in most cases very obvious and really deserves lots of time for experimenting, well worth the effort. The selection of different mic pres, after a mic was chosen and placed, created more sublte differences, that had to be checked "in the track" to really hear the effect. All of it added up and contributed to the sound in different ways. Also. the "tuning" of the room with different acoustic materials made a BIG difference.

The biggest surprise so far, and I think I can speak for everybody at the workshop, was the RNC, compared to the "big boys" on a drum submix. Keep in mind that we were looking for a trashy, squeezed kinda sound, but that little thing is worth it's weight in gold.

Later today we finally get to the stereo bus compressor shootout. We'll post our personal preferences tomorrow.

Man, this workshop could last for a month and we wouldn't run out of interesting stuff to do.

David R. · 25th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by mwagener
OH NO, pleeezzzeee, NO!!!

e-cue · 25th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Martin
Well, stuff that might be of interest includes:
UA 1176 (pair)
Purple 1176 (pair)
Tube Tech CL-1B
UA La-2A
Meek SC-2
Daking (pair)
Peavey TCL-2
Millennia
Manley Vari-Mu
Manley ELOP
GE BA-9B

And some others. I don't know that I'd enjoy unracking all of it, but if you want, I'll do what I can...

By the way, from looking at your list, you and I have almost completely different collections of compressors. I think we only have the Distressors, the Trakkers, the Summits and the 1969 in common. Well, and the FMR, though I haven't seen mine in a year or two (Someone borrowed it and won't give it back...)

Jumpin jesus on a pogo stick!

Can I just get a day of studio time at that price?!

DirkB · 25th August 2003

Hi Michael,

Great stuff here. Just wondering: what pathbays are you using, are they 1/4" jacks? What brand?

Greetings,
Dirk

P.S. I'm very interested in the results!

Dave Martin · 25th August 2003

Quote:

Originally posted by e-cue
Jumpin jesus on a pogo stick!

Can I just get a day of studio time at that price?!

At what price? We can make something work...

19th August 2003	#35
drew Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maryland,USA Posts: 3,438	SO???? How's it going?

22nd August 2003	#51
David R. Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: I left my heart, in... Posts: 1,863	mpr3 or Michael, got a question and some comments about the wonderful pictures posted: The female violinist - she looks like someone I used to play with and have been trying to get in touch with. Could you PM me with her first name? Love the pic of the guitarist blanket with 8 mics! It's obvious to me, the studio vibe and the lava lamps - Michael Wagner is Mixerman! __________________ -David R. "An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way." - C. Bukowski

22nd August 2003	#52
flexoffset Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: . Posts: 532	My head just exploded with 'gear envy' Three cheers for the 'University of Wireworld" !!!!! What pieces of equpment have made the most difference thusfar? In general terms, what has surprised you guys most?

25th August 2003	#59
DirkB Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,703	Hi Michael, Great stuff here. Just wondering: what pathbays are you using, are they 1/4" jacks? What brand? Greetings, Dirk P.S. I'm very interested in the results! __________________ -progress takes away what forever took to find- Dave Matthews

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19th August 2003	#36
toledo3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Funky Town FL Posts: 1,304	Ooohh, squeezebox. Where is the Homer Drool emoticon when you need it

19th August 2003	#37
MMazurek Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Naperville, Illinois USA Posts: 146	Also, Any news on the 'end of Sept - beginning of Oct' workshop??? How can I get my name in?

21st August 2003	#42
fatty Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 348	pictures please!

21st August 2003	#43
blackcatdigi Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: upstate, sc Posts: 1,739	Geez, Gimme a break, I'm on dialup here!!!

22nd August 2003	#46
mpr3 Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 338	I am also here in Nashville at the August workshop and I concur with everything blackcatdigi has said. This is simply an awesome experience that I will never forget. Here is a link to some pictures thus far, more will come soon. There is so much gear here that my head spins thinking about all the possible combinations of mics/mic pres/placements that are possible at Wireworld. Mic selection/placement and micpre selection have so far been the crux of the workshop and words cannot describe how impressed I am with the sounds we are getting direct to tape (digital). Tonight after finally tracking the last bit of background vocals I sat in front of the RAW 46 track mix (one band of EQ on vocals with a distressor, and one band of EQ on toms) . With faders pretty much up, I marvelled at how HUGE the mix already sounds. We start the real mixing tomorrow morning. Here are a few basic things I have learned thus far: 1. Time flies when you are having fun. 2. Small improvements from proper Mic selection/placement and preamp selection soon add up to improvements so large that they are obvious from outer space. 3. You can never have enough gear. 4. Knowing what to listen for is more important than the quality of your hearing. Will share more later, but basically this whole project gets a HUGE and I obviously recommend anyone who has a chance to attend one of these things to jump all over it if possible. 30 years of trial and error has obviously paid off for Michael and he is more than willing to share his secrets with us! What a great host!

22nd August 2003	#47
mwagener High End Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Music City USA Posts: 3,582 Thread Starter	Why is this man smiling?

22nd August 2003	#48
flawedmusic Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 6	The fans in the rack for the spider are coolio!

22nd August 2003	#53
renshen Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 59	Looks like a great time...I'll be there soon Where are you guys staying, hotel's ???? Thanks

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