First 'high end' purchase cold feet

[Andysw]

Hi all,

I want to buy a compressor for my MIX BUSS, and before you go shaking your heads at me, this isn't a "should I buy X compressor" or "will I like X compressor" thread,
It's a, I need advice from people who've made choices about expensive pieces of gear before and how to make the smartest decision possible thread

Recently i've been upgrading my studio, so far i've spent money where I needed to most,
I've basically upgraded my whole rig to the point where my studio has a great backbone.

I want to buy a few pieces for my 2 BUSS, but given that i've never really spent the "big bucks" before in this area, I feel a little bit out of my league.

I am super sensitive about my mix buss, and I know that I'm not going to be happy with coloring it with something unless it sounds amazing,
The only thing that I have "coloring" the mix at the moment is a Dangerous summing box and a high end monitor controller on the final stereo return.
It would be great if I also had something that had multi use, IE could be used on mix buss, could also be used on instruments and vocals etc, and also be used for a wide range of musical styles from orchestral to pop to electronica to rock.

I've been putting in the research and I've got a few compressors I want to try out before I buy, so that's not a problem,
But there's a certain element of this that scares me, making a choice to spend 5K or so on a device that is going to become part of my "sound".

My choices so far are based on the sound that I like.

NEVE 33609 JD
VINTECH 609CA
A DESIGNS, THE NAIL
(POSSIBLY SSL G series comp)
DAKING FET III

I'm fully ready to have my ears let the "best one" win, but part of me is torn between trying to make a choice based on "wow" factor when I play around with them, making a choice based on reviews, or making a choice based on "brand"..
Obviously there's a big price different between some which also seems attractive, but i'm fully ready to spend whatever is necessary (but no more than around 5K) to get the job done.

EG-
I feel like the NEVE style compressors will give me a more cohesive color to the mix, and also be great on instruments,
Whereas I feel the NAIL will be more clean and transparent,
The SSL seems like it will be more agressive and rocky, which is not a bad thing, but seeing as I'd like to do a wide range of applications, it would be good to not have a one trick pony.
Having said that I do want a "sound", and not just a "compressed" sound.

Can anyone please offer some wisdom on dropping this kind of dough on a piece like this and what to really scrutinze?

Thanks guys,

[Madman]

i can't name which piece but would say that FOR me i've gone itb and have many choices depending on the song and color that i want to add

with the waves mercury you would do well...

my opinion

m

[andychamp]

Whatever your choice, it will take time and experience to find out if it was the right one.
Reviews can be helpful, but they can't replace firsthand experience.
Everything else being equal, I'd go for the brand with the best resale potential, in case I'd want to replace it later.
But with your kind of budget, your choices are just different shades of good.

[phunk2]

Well, if the bill fits your pockets I dont really think you'll regret it. When it comes to dropping that kind of dough on something in that pricerange from your own pockets, (after trying a couple of them) the second you put your mastercard on the counter you gonna love every inch of metal on the piece you just found worthy of your $$$.

And regarding the SSL, it's a very versatile piece of equipment, I've used it on the 2bus for almost everything, rock, commercial pop, house, electro, string quartets etc. You can make it smooth, pumpy, smacky or whatever fits your track.

Just my 2 cents

[doulos30]

check out the diy form at prodigy pro ask if anyone has a G-ssl bus compressor for sale not much to it really and you`d proably save a good bit more buying it new and sound the same or very worth the money

[RCM - Ronan]

where are you located? Most places in the world you can get a great 2-buss compressor for a lot less than 5k (if you are talking dollars or Euros).

[DrSax]

I was in the same position as you several years ago and wanted a great 2-buss comp and something that would work on any individual tracks....
I decided on a pair of Daking FET II comps an even after several years of colllecting tons of high end comps... That was my best decision ever. They worked on everything I could throw at them and are quite flexible.

If you were only going for 2-buss I would recommend the Charter Oak SCL-1 but for all the styles you mention plus using it on lead box and other instruments, I think you would be hard pressed to do better than a pair of Daking FET II's - and I would recommend that as opposed to a FET III - because the extra transformer is lovely!!!!

I can cover more range with 2 of these than almost anything else... And they don't just work on most things... They really shine on almost everything I throw at them.

For specific items I might recommend a specific other comp.. But for 2-buss and any other needs - a pair of FET II's is perfect. And it will be much less than 5k - an added bonus

I was hesitant as they were one if my first outboard purchases aside from mic pres - and it was the best outboard gear decision I ever made.

[Andysw]

Thanks guys,
Much appreciated.
I'm located in Australia, so gear is ridiculously expensive at the best of times, I have a great relationship with a local dealer though who shaves quite a decent chunk of retail prices, so from that perspective i'm happy supporting them.
I'm going to research the Thermonic culture comp, I'm pretty sure my dealer has Thermonic in their range,
It would be nice if the one I buy adds something "nice" overall even just running through it without engaging anything, which I guess the tube gear would do,
I get the re-sale value comment, it's always nice to know you can still get most of your money back if you don't dig something anymore down the trail.
I'm looking to invest though in something that I'll continue to use for years to come,
DR Sax:
Your comments interest me a lot, thanks,
To be honest I'm stuck in this weird head space where I feel like Daking isn't as 'good' (please excuse the ambigous term, I know the stigma that comes along with comparisons), as something like the NEVE.
Or that the NEVE is the best one simply because it's NEVE.
I've seen people rave as you say about the FET II and loads of people running FET IIs and loving them,
As a disclaimer I was never a "neve" fan, but since i've been faced with this decision I'm kind of leaning towards I think psychologically because I feel like I can trust the brand somehow... as silly as that may sound.
I'm not sure I would be able to audition the FET IIs, that would be complicated, but on your comments alone they're back on the list, anything else you can add RE FETII?

RCM - Ronan, I'm in Australia, things are quite expensive audio wise here, and importing is A) difficult because of customs who will tax you, B) I have a conscience and want to keep jobs in the country!
Any suggestions perhaps?? I'd love to save money, but obviously not at the cost of functionality and quality.
Phunk 2 -
Thanks, I guess I'm a bit stuck in stereotypes at the moment, brand stereotyping, and I'm thinking that NEVE is smooth and round and SSL is rocky and punchy,
I would like to audition it, but I'm imagining that the SSL is more a BUSS comp only and wouldn't be as good on single instruments etc?

I'm also buying a pair of Mercury Pultec style EQs for my 2 BUSS, which are great because they'll be sweet on my 2 BUSS but also nice on vocals or instruments.
I'm going for a similar value from the compressor.
Cheers guys,
Any more comments welcome.

[trashman]

I think your stressing too much. Have some fun Man!

The current ssl g-comp isn't a color box ... it's a sonic 40 lane highway.
Shitloads of headroom and does every trick a patpong pole dancer could conjure.

Comes in a couple form factors: xrack module and 19". The xrack setup is cool because you can slut out the rest of the rack ; )

The Rupert neve 5043 is also another brilliant compressor.

A crazy fantastic compressor that slips under the radar time and again is the new aurora audio stereo comp
GTC2. It's like a la2a and 1176 imbibe box. The designer worked for Neve back in the day and has a fantastic reputation for creating superb equipment.

I think you might be limiting yourself with the 3 compressors you offered.

[Andysw]

PS -

I'm also worried as to wether the "valve" route is the best one to take with things like thermonic etc,

Maybe i'm dirtying up the sound too much, and buying gear that's more prone to parts dying or needing replacement etc,

These could be completely unfounded fears though???

[Kumbari]

Where in Australia are you as I have a Daking Fet II and would never part with it. If you are far away you are most welcome to come demo it.
Check with Legacy Audio as they are/were the Daking dealers in Australia.
I also have the original 1176 REV F and I use the Daking just as much as the URei. I also own a modded LA5 which is just terrific for traacking.

[Andysw]

Thanks mate, that's really nice of you!

I'm an ex Brisbanite actually, I live in Melbourne these days..

So more love for the FET II hey..

Interesting, sure makes this harder,

Have you used the FET II in a buss comp situation, two of them linked? or just as a mono processor on instruments etc?

I'm interested in the FET II, but I somehow still feel like they're not at the level that NEVE or SSL are,
Is this just brand love??

I've got too many too choose from :(
I'm terrified about making the wrong decision (I use wrong loosely), but at the end of the day I just want to get on with the business of making music,
So the search continues..

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Andysw

Hi all,

I want to buy a compressor for my MIX BUSS, and before you go shaking your heads at me, this isn't a "should I buy X compressor" or "will I like X compressor" thread,
It's a, I need advice from people who've made choices about expensive pieces of gear before and how to make the smartest decision possible thread

Recently i've been upgrading my studio, so far i've spent money where I needed to most,
I've basically upgraded my whole rig to the point where my studio has a great backbone.

I want to buy a few pieces for my 2 BUSS, but given that i've never really spent the "big bucks" before in this area, I feel a little bit out of my league.

I am super sensitive about my mix buss, and I know that I'm not going to be happy with coloring it with something unless it sounds amazing,
The only thing that I have "coloring" the mix at the moment is a Dangerous summing box and a high end monitor controller on the final stereo return.
It would be great if I also had something that had multi use, IE could be used on mix buss, could also be used on instruments and vocals etc, and also be used for a wide range of musical styles from orchestral to pop to electronica to rock.

I've been putting in the research and I've got a few compressors I want to try out before I buy, so that's not a problem,
But there's a certain element of this that scares me, making a choice to spend 5K or so on a device that is going to become part of my "sound".

My choices so far are based on the sound that I like.

NEVE 33609 JD
VINTECH 609CA
A DESIGNS, THE NAIL
(POSSIBLY SSL G series comp)
DAKING FET III

I'm fully ready to have my ears let the "best one" win, but part of me is torn between trying to make a choice based on "wow" factor when I play around with them, making a choice based on reviews, or making a choice based on "brand"..
Obviously there's a big price different between some which also seems attractive, but i'm fully ready to spend whatever is necessary (but no more than around 5K) to get the job done.

EG-
I feel like the NEVE style compressors will give me a more cohesive color to the mix, and also be great on instruments,
Whereas I feel the NAIL will be more clean and transparent,
The SSL seems like it will be more agressive and rocky, which is not a bad thing, but seeing as I'd like to do a wide range of applications, it would be good to not have a one trick pony.
Having said that I do want a "sound", and not just a "compressed" sound.

Can anyone please offer some wisdom on dropping this kind of dough on a piece like this and what to really scrutinze?

Thanks guys,

regularjohnrecording.com I ordered mine through him. Hasn't gotten here yet but if you're leaning to the SSL, it's not an expensive box, the price tag tells you otherwise but lots of people build them for 300-500 bucks. The custom ones from Dustin have the option of multiple filters and Lundahl tranformers. Again, haven't heard mine yet but I certainly wouldn't pay the kind of money a G series goes for. Mine was 900 plus shipping. You should put the 2500 from API on your list if you're planning on spending that kind of cash.

[Andysw]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

regularjohnrecording.com I ordered mine through him. Hasn't gotten here yet but if you're leaning to the SSL, it's not an expensive box, the price tag tells you otherwise but lots of people build them for 300-500 bucks. The custom ones from Dustin have the option of multiple filters and Lundahl tranformers. Again, haven't heard mine yet but I certainly wouldn't pay the kind of money a G series goes for. Mine was 900 plus shipping. You should put the 2500 from API on your list if you're planning on spending that kind of cash.

Thanks man,
Checking out the site now!!

Obviously spending less is a massive bonus, the less debt I'm in the better,
But I've resolved myself to the fact that I want the best I can possibly get, a mixture between best to my ears and something that is technically very good.
I'm looking at this as making an investment in my sound, although I fully realise that can start to lose meaning very quickly when gear is involved and expensive doesn't = good.

I have kind of avoided the API actually, to be honest because everyone goes on about them all the time, (like they don't about NEVEs LOL), it seems to get a ridiculous amount of love here on GS,
Not saying that's in any way a bad thing, but for silly weird reasons that's kind of put me off it a little..
Which I should stop and go check it out,
I'm not sure there's many dealers around that do them, but I'll add it to the list..

LOL - I was hoping to be whittling this list down by now

But it seems to be growing.... :(

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to demo all of them,

Right now without hearing any of them yet (except for albums I know used them), I'm feeling like the NEVE or the Thermionic Culture Phoenix will give me the most "glue", "mojo" (I am sorry, I hate using those words, but they've seem to become the best words to get the point across easily)

And that the Daking, API, SSL will be more solid, clean punchy sounding units,
Or am I wrong?

I guess I should add further to my previous explanations, I'm really after a sound that gives great separation, lets the important parts stick out that i've outlined in my mix, something that enhances the overall sound in a pleasing gluey warm way, that is dynamic and "big" like a Sting record, but warm and smooth as well,
Essentially adds to the effect I'm going for with my summing box, making the whole thing very "console" sounding..

Sorry if this is all old ground, I'm sure everyone's sick of talking about buss comps, analog mojo and glue,
But 5K is a big investment

[Aisle 6]

Originally Posted by Andysw

And that the Daking, API, SSL will be more solid, clean punchy sounding units,
Or am I wrong?

I would not call the API,SSL clean...punchy, yes, solid, yes but definitely adds colour. All in a cool way that earned them their respective reputations.

I guess you need to understand that when you add these devices to the mix buss, they can be very subtle and they all do their thing in a slightly different way. In fact when I went out on a limb and purchased my C2, I got it into the studio and thought that I had made a huge mistake. You see we can build these things up to some unrealistic level where reputation would have you believe that they are magic bullets. The good news is that after 2 weeks with the C2 I grew to understand what it does and now I cannot live without it. I have also auditioned the API 2500 and love what it does. Again, on a micro level they are very different, but on a macro level, very similar.
The point I am trying to make is that you really need to get to know these devices over an extended period to REALLY appreciate what it is that they individually bring to the equation.

I hope that makes sense...cause I think I just confused myself. ; )

[Matt Syson]

Hi
Is there no chance of demo or 'borrowing' or renting at least a couple of units from your and suggested lists. You can only really choose by 'playing' with them and a couple of hundred in freight / rental charges could well be worthwhile (assuming you can't borrow them free).
Matt s

[naths101]

give Lewis at Awave a call about demoing some units, he would be more than happy to help you out, so too would Mick from Mixmasters.
I would be surprised if Legacy don't have some dakings for demo...

also did I hear somewhere on GS that the daking is similar sonically to the neve 2254?

cheers

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by Andysw

Thanks man,
Checking out the site now!!

Obviously spending less is a massive bonus, the less debt I'm in the better,
But I've resolved myself to the fact that I want the best I can possibly get, a mixture between best to my ears and something that is technically very good.
I'm looking at this as making an investment in my sound, although I fully realise that can start to lose meaning very quickly when gear is involved and expensive doesn't = good.

I have kind of avoided the API actually, to be honest because everyone goes on about them all the time, (like they don't about NEVEs LOL), it seems to get a ridiculous amount of love here on GS,
Not saying that's in any way a bad thing, but for silly weird reasons that's kind of put me off it a little..
Which I should stop and go check it out,
I'm not sure there's many dealers around that do them, but I'll add it to the list..

LOL - I was hoping to be whittling this list down by now

But it seems to be growing.... :(

I'm pretty sure I won't be able to demo all of them,

Right now without hearing any of them yet (except for albums I know used them), I'm feeling like the NEVE or the Thermionic Culture Phoenix will give me the most "glue", "mojo" (I am sorry, I hate using those words, but they've seem to become the best words to get the point across easily)

And that the Daking, API, SSL will be more solid, clean punchy sounding units,
Or am I wrong?

I guess I should add further to my previous explanations, I'm really after a sound that gives great separation, lets the important parts stick out that i've outlined in my mix, something that enhances the overall sound in a pleasing gluey warm way, that is dynamic and "big" like a Sting record, but warm and smooth as well,
Essentially adds to the effect I'm going for with my summing box, making the whole thing very "console" sounding..

Sorry if this is all old ground, I'm sure everyone's sick of talking about buss comps, analog mojo and glue,
But 5K is a big investment

I totally agree, the API stuff does get a ton of recognition (along with Neve and SSL) to a sickening degree but it's not without reason, a lot of their stuff sounds great. I love the 2500 and thinks it's a very unique piece but it's too pricey for me. I'd hate to give advice based on what my ears hear but I've always found the G series to glue mixes together very well in a clean (but very nice sounding) way. Surprised the Dramastic Obsidian hasn't been mentioned.

[Pfhuck]

Empirical Labs EL-9 Mike-E x 2 =

Please and THANK YOU!
-pfhuck

[Darius van H]

Here's another thumbsup for the API 2500. Extremely versatile - can go from super grabby and aggressive to very subtle and gentle.

Buying blind is a risky business, unless it's second hand and you can move it on if you don't dig it.

Sometimes you need to live with a bit of gear for a while to know if it's for you - another reason to buy second hand if you don't want to lose some money.

[4blades]

OP: your comp list is definitely worthy.
I also tested a lot of stereo compressors.
I would suggest 2 units, that to me cover all the range.
GML 8900, a very transparent and versatile unit,
QES Labs Variable-Gm tube compressor,
it's warm but still retaining it's transparency,
great 3D depth.

You can have a listen:
Gml,
Qes.

[Aisle 6]

Originally Posted by naths101

I would be surprised if Legacy don't have some dakings for demo

I do not see Daking on Daniel's site any more. I have a feeling that he is importing doing them any longer.

[DeyBwah]

I'm in the same boat, shopping for a 2-buss compressor right now. I've moved from a SSL G384 to C2 and now Dramastic Obsidian(500). It seems the evolution for me is moving from colored/specific to more transparent and versatile. At least that's how my brain is understanding it.

The main draw to the Obsidian for me is the majority of people's description that it does NOT squash the stereo field at all, remains open and big, while 'gluing' the mix. It's also versatile enough to CRUSH its enemies with some lo-fi or skull action. I haven't heard it myself, but I'm planning on picking one up and running it through its paces.

Good luck mate. I was also considering the Daking FET III, another well rounded, universally praised hardware piece for its versatility.

[DeyBwah]

Originally Posted by jordanvoth

I totally agree, the API stuff does get a ton of recognition (along with Neve and SSL) to a sickening degree but it's not without reason, a lot of their stuff sounds great. I love the 2500 and thinks it's a very unique piece but it's too pricey for me. I'd hate to give advice based on what my ears hear but I've always found the G series to glue mixes together very well in a clean (but very nice sounding) way. Surprised the Dramastic Obsidian hasn't been mentioned.

Have you used the Obsidian? What is your take on the piece?

[Lee Cardan]

just putting love in to the SSL G, but you really may as well grab a SSL FX G384 (the real one) if you're prepared to spend big bucks. They go for around $3000 at vintage king. People would also say the Alan Smart C2 is the business (I haven't tried one, so I can't comment, but I have been wow'ed so many times by my SSL, I absolutely love that thing)

The BEST thing you could do is arrange a hire / borrow from somewhere that has all which you're looking at (pro audio shop perhaps), you really need to spend some time with each of your considerations if you're going to think so much about it. honestly, all this clean / punchy / transparent / warm / tube sounding / tubey / transistory terms that get thrown around here so much, pay very little attention to any of that and just start using the gear.

[Lee Cardan]

also, Andy , welcome to Melbourne! Hope all your brisbane friends are doing ok

anj who you'll see in the Aus/NZ forum is selling a Smart C2 for $2100. Alan Smart from what I understand is pretty much the SSL designer, whose gone on his own and made a modernised version of the SSL G.

And you're welcome to stop by my studio in Hawthorn anytime to actually try some mixes on the API 2500, SSL G384, or something else. I can hook you up with a great pro audio guy who can get you anything at a fantastic price, for 5K you're talking you could probably throw in a sweet EQ as well. pm me if you're interested

[jordanvoth]

Originally Posted by DeyBwah

Have you used the Obsidian? What is your take on the piece?

Only heard some samples of it. it's hard to be objective of samples in which you simple swapped compressors and matched the knobs. Personally in the samples I heard the SSL sounded more compact and hard hitting which leads me to think that they were swapped out as opposed to two seperate mixes. You get what you pay for, if you can't get any of these to work its not the gear. If I had that kind of money I'd go API, the thrust section and the feedforward/feedback are beastly and can change everything with the hit of a button.

[ddageek]

First I have been lucky enough to hear a fair amount of gear over the years so I haven't really had to fly blind to often.
I think I could work with any of your choices, as far as a general purpose bus comp, unless you have a specific sound in mind you will be fine.

Right now even though my comp collection includes 2 mc77, 2 ADL 1000 bus duties are handeled in the box or now don't laugh by an RNC!
I have been looking to the future ( first the console is being expanded and I'm refurbing a couple of Ampex's ) I'm going a different rout though I'm thinking Hippo and Shadow hill s Vandergraph!
So at some point just bite the bullet!

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by Andysw

Whereas I feel the NAIL will be more clean and transparent.....Having said that I do want a "sound", and not just a "compressed" sound.

I wouldn't call The Nail transparent. Perhaps it is, relative to some of the other options, but it definitely has a personality, and it does work very well across the whole mix. The GTC2 is also an incredibly cool compressor - extremely versatile - but I have not as of yet tried using mine as a mix compressor.

[DeyBwah]

Ordered the Obsidian 500, it's en route from MA to CA. Should have it by Tuesday, will try to post my experience with it once I run it through its paces.