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| Neve / SSL / API console summing vs. summing box summing | Shaman | High end | 84 | 18th June 2008 05:20 AM |
| Summing Box VS Summing In The Box | neveguydusty | High end | 4 | 6th August 2006 09:20 AM |
| So what comes after your summing box? | Flymax | High end | 39 | 30th March 2006 05:32 AM |
| Summing box | abc | So much gear, so little time! | 11 | 4th February 2006 10:41 PM |
| Yet another summing box | Nutmeg II. | So much gear, so little time! | 6 | 8th April 2004 01:42 AM |
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27th January 2006, 12:08 AM
| #1 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto
Posts: 609
| Colorful and Vibey Summing Box I'm looking to a get a really colored, retro, smooth sounding summing mixer. My choices are: Chandler Mixer (I LOVE my TG2!) Phoenix Nicerizer 16 (Heard great things) Neve 8816 (Anyone heard one yet?) Any opinions or experiences would be greatly apprecriated. I'll try and audition as many as I can, but it aint gonna be easy given their costs. |
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27th January 2006, 07:15 AM
| #2 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 2,750
| Nicerizer 16 is precisely that. -R |
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27th January 2006, 12:24 PM
| #3 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
I just got the Mini Mixer about a week ago and the jury is still out for me and gain structure is an issue ( I'm getting a bit of distortion on some stuff) but the early impressions are that it is a winner, but it is big and fat....it tells the truth and I seem to need less stuff in my ref mixes ... (I will still go outside to an SSL for most of my master mixes on most stuff I like it on vocal ) the Chandler is a STRONG STRONG flavor though ....... I bought it after sticking my TG-2's on the mix bus and loving that BTW ... I also got it after owning a Mix Dream for quite sometime and finding that the difference it made was marginal at best... too clean I mean what the hell do we need a summer for if it's not going to colour the sound? | |
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27th January 2006, 01:06 PM
| #4 | |
| member no 666  Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA
Posts: 5,771
| Quote:
FWIW... I had a nearly 180' difference assessment or the 'Mixdream' than "doogie"... but I have a pretty interesting selection of front end colors so I'm generally looking to pick up less of a personality on the back end than the front. For my "summing buss" purposes the "Mix Dream" was a better item... but as a tracking mixer the "Mini-Mixer" is cool as all get out. I love summing stuff through it... especially drums. I've not taken the time and trouble to do a "side by each" kinda shootout... probably could at somepoint... just not this point.
__________________ Fletcher "I'm not really an asshole... I just play one on the internet" [author unknown] R/E/P the Recording Engineer and Producer forums Mercenary Audio the small drinking company with a large audio problem mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light | |
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27th January 2006, 04:40 PM
| #5 | |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,562
| Quote:
No comparsion what's better applies here. Nicerizer 16 can do the color, but I don't need it most of time. Mixdream will provide good dynamic mix, with depth and clarity, but IT IS different than digital mix. And don't forget that processing via channels inserts will to its part of work, to. I have Necerizer 16 in rack, as I definitely need more options, so sometimes part of submixes go through it (synths for example) and bigger part though Mixdream. Together they fulfilled all I ever expected from analogue summing. I don't think that the sound of the most expensive audio console summing (we don't discuss processing, comfort or impressing clients here) is able to match what can be done with Mixdream/Nicerizer pair. If you are real slutz you know what I would recommend/  | |
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27th January 2006, 04:48 PM
| #6 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA
Posts: 1,271
| Recent shootout between SPL Mixdream and DM2000 gave surprising results. Using the Avocet for monitoring and switching...the Mixdream gave NO improvement...and left the signal needing an additional A to D conversion 1. DM2000/PTHD/192/192 dig i/o/BigBen 2. SPL Mixdream/DA16x/X-Digihd Monitoring. Avocet/ADAM S-3A/Dunlavy SCIV/Bryston
__________________ harrisaudiosystems.com |
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27th January 2006, 04:50 PM
| #7 | |
| member no 666 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Foxboro, MA USA
Posts: 5,771
| Quote:
__________________ Fletcher "I'm not really an asshole... I just play one on the internet" [author unknown] R/E/P the Recording Engineer and Producer forums Mercenary Audio the small drinking company with a large audio problem mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light | |
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27th January 2006, 05:17 PM
| #8 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Moscow
Posts: 2,562
| Quote:
Difference is not immediate when you compare without some tweaking levels and specially having interaction with analogue processing. Mixdream is clean and resolute what's the strength of this box. But mixes done via analogue summing are in 100% of my production projects better final products. I don't talk about direct 100% comparisons of mixes. I tried very hard to do it all digital (less boxes, less costs, less heat), sorry. It's simply impossible to get all vibe out of digital summing. Why would ever one buy analogue summing if it would be same as digital (in simple solution incl converters, cables and nothing else it means at least 10k+) ? I've already chosen 2 favorite summers and remain opet to see what's next good thing (if ever). This is right way to dig further. | |
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27th January 2006, 05:23 PM
| #9 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA
Posts: 1,271
| the DM2000 was used only for digital summing...faders set at unity Were you clocking the Yamaha and PT with an external clock? an added benefit was the ability to integrate the 960 digitally....and the mix results received praise from Bob Ludwig...who found previous mixes using the reverbs "in the box" to be lacking in depth
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27th January 2006, 05:25 PM
| #10 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA
Posts: 1,271
| BTW...i had not expected these results...tho i do believe mixing externally (either digitally or analog) to be superior to "in the box" mixes
__________________ harrisaudiosystems.com |
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27th January 2006, 06:00 PM
| #11 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 318
  | I consider the Tubetech Summing BOx SSA2A a colorful summing box. 20in, 2 Out, Transformer Balanced in and out. +30dBu input. +28dBu output 23 position master output. Have used them on 6 album mixes with great result.
__________________ ------------------------------ Harmoko Aguswan Big Knob Studio Right Track Productions ------------------------------ On one hand, I can certainly sympathize with the approach of "Hey, I can't hear any difference, so why should I pay that much?". On the other, I wonder why anyone who can't hear a difference is recording, mixing, or producing records. -DAVE MARTIN  |
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27th January 2006, 06:11 PM
| #12 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
boy ... Fletch it's pretty radical .... I mean the bottom end is really extended ... I kind of compare it to the impression I had of the Radar with the Niquist converters X 10 I know , I know those are converters and this is an analog mixer but a great deal has been talked about in terms of front end or analog stages in converters but that is my impression .... vocals mixed through it has dare I say , I'll get hammeered for this but hear goes ..have a Bonoesque beautiful Day thing... now I'm hammering this thing pretty hard by the VU meters in chorus' and such but that's how it sounds the best to me so far .... I'm just not sure how much top end could be accessed later in mastering that is cause it is dark compared to an ITB mix or through the MixDream .... | |
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27th January 2006, 06:13 PM
| #13 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| excuse the spelling ... hear .. here... I'm not getting much sleep these days |
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27th January 2006, 06:16 PM
| #14 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| besides the question was about vibey summing boxes and vibe wise there is NO question that this thing leaves the Mixdream in the dust |
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27th January 2006, 06:29 PM
| #15 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
I'll also add that I've done alot of work on Neves over the years , mostly tracking and this really has that Neve warmth in droves , now the issue is , is the Neve any Neve a great console to mix on? .... therein lies the rub ... but you know I'm not a good enough engineer to know how to manipulate and dial up analog warmth and depth of field at will... so yea this thing may be it .. like I said the jury's still out ... | |
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27th January 2006, 06:39 PM
| #16 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto
Posts: 609
| Thanks for all the help guys. I never considered the TubeTech. Hmmm.. I too run my mixes through my TG-2 which is why I'm leaning towards the Chandler mixer. Cost wise, the Nicerizer is almost half the Chandler. Whenever I buy a piece of gear I always have to ask myself "Does this gear make my mixes sound $?000 better?" Usually the answer is yes as with my TG2 and 1176. Is the Chandler worth the extra bucks? And Fletcher, I hear the pots in the Chandler are not center detented. Is that true? |
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27th January 2006, 06:42 PM
| #17 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA
Posts: 1,271
| My clients like the openness of the mixdream...and like Fletcher...think the summing box should not impart a color..that job should be left to the comp that follows...be it a SSL..API 2500...Chandler..Vari-Mu or CL2
__________________ harrisaudiosystems.com |
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27th January 2006, 06:45 PM
| #18 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 318
| Bump Music, Take a look, try them with your mix (starting mix with it rather than just summing AFTER you mix itb) and pair it with STC-8 ( I found that I prefer solid state compressor for the master bus when combined with SSA2A. I'm selling mine on classified. Reason is: Have a custom mixer being built at the moment..
__________________ ------------------------------ Harmoko Aguswan Big Knob Studio Right Track Productions ------------------------------ On one hand, I can certainly sympathize with the approach of "Hey, I can't hear any difference, so why should I pay that much?". On the other, I wonder why anyone who can't hear a difference is recording, mixing, or producing records. -DAVE MARTIN |
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27th January 2006, 07:19 PM
| #19 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC
Posts: 968
 | Let me add to the confusion... Has anyone heard the Sumthang by Innertube Audio???? |
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27th January 2006, 07:31 PM
| #20 |
| Gear addict  Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 426
| For my own edification, what does the much more expensive Chandler line mixer give you that other cheaper summing amplifiers don't? -Chris |
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27th January 2006, 07:43 PM
| #21 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
that's a ridiculous statement WADR ... I can tell an SSL mix immediately when I hear it , why? it colours the sound , I can tell a mix done on trident and Neve as well ... ALL consoles colour the sound , scratch that ALL equipment to some degree colours the sound ... | |
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27th January 2006, 07:47 PM
| #22 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago
Posts: 490
| I know it isnt a "summing box" but has anyone used the GTM-822? Have one of these come across your path yet Fletcher? I really like the routing scheme on it and it looks pretty expandable. Havent heard back on any prices nor seen any reviews. Looks great on paper though. |
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28th January 2006, 12:50 AM
| #23 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Toronto
Posts: 609
| Quote:
 If I've loved everything I've tried by them, then why not?  | |
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28th January 2006, 10:24 AM
| #24 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: brighton UK
Posts: 722
| I'm on for a summing solution too, and my short list of stuff to try is: Chandler mixer, Nicerizer or... Folcrom+ pre????? (i would like to try the gr mp2nv...) anyone as tried a summing box vs folcrom+ pre solution? I will be able to try a chandler in April, there's a nicerizer in demo in London and i think the folcrom is available in the uk now... there's so many pres around the folcrom seems a nice option.... any folcrom user here? |
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28th January 2006, 11:56 AM
| #25 |
| Lives for gear  Join Date: May 2004 Location: Los Angeles ,Ca.
Posts: 5,543
| Like Rick said.. Colorful and Vibey= Nicerizer-16..  |
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28th January 2006, 05:38 PM
| #26 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
of course Mike you guys want to sell more stuff.... | |
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28th January 2006, 05:39 PM
| #27 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
I've taken my SSL comp off the bus I think the Mini Mixer sounds better without it | |
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28th January 2006, 05:56 PM
| #28 | |
| Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 312
| Quote:
Roundbadge .. really want your feed back on the Mini Mixer .... why didn't you like it ??? | |
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