John Kurzweg & Kirk Kelsey: Creed's "Human Clay"

[Almost Human]

I've been trying to track down any info that I can on the gear that was used Creed's Human Clay album and how John Kurzweg and Kirk Kelsey recorded and engineered the project. If anyone has any insight, I'd love to hear about it!

I know what type of gear the guys in the band were using around that time and such, but I'm curious as to the mic set-up, gear it was recorded on, any insight into the mixing. For me, the Human Clay album is probably the reference album when it comes to modern rock. I like that everything sounds thick and huge, but you can also clearly hear everything very distinctly in the mix.

What I do know is that Kirk Kelsey was the FOH engineer for Creed for a long time, and during the tour for that album, he used a variety of Audio Technica mics on everything...guitars, drums, vocals, etc. They also denoted Audio Technica in the linear notes of the album, so I'm going to assume that they used them quite extensively on the album, too.

Anyway, if anyone has any insight into how the album was recorded, mixed, etc...or even knows where I can track down info or old articles with Kurzweg and Kelsey, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! thumbsup

[topslakr]

Rumor is:

The album was mixed at Full Sail on the SSL 9000J in studio1. The project took longer to mix then expected and some students couldn't get into the studios for class so they bought the school another SSL 9000J as an apology. I would imagine they added in some extra gear but Studio one has 2 1176s, La-2a, couple tla-100s, the Tubetec Pultec clones, TC 6000, Lexicon 960L (though it may have had the 480 then), Protools, Studer, couple other 1U effects processors PCM81s ect.... How they did it though...


Anyone heard that before?


Robert

[Almost Human]

That's interesting. I've not heard that rumor before. I do know that Full Sail would definitely be a convienent location for them, since it's down in Florida not far from them. And here on the site, it does say that Creed recorded Human Clay there:

http://www.fullsail.com/index.cfm/fa.../43/CampusTour

So, I guess we can assume that it was done on a SSL 9000J in Studio B down in Full Sail. And we know that Audio Technica mics were brought in by Kelsey to use, but we don't know specifically what ones, nor what was used where. Good stuff...thanks for the info!

[MGA]

I thought they recorded that album in a house. The album credits are very vague as to the production but I love the sound of that album. Really punchy drums and crunky guitars.

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by MGA

I thought they recorded that album in a house. The album credits are very vague as to the production but I love the sound of that album. Really punchy drums and crunky guitars.

I love the sound of that album, too. It's a great modern rock sound...just absolutely huge. I'm hoping more people can chime in and fill in some of the gaps for us.

The album that you're thinking of that was done is a house was the follow up album "Weathered." Oddly enough, there's a music connection there. The house was owned by Jay Stanley and recorded in his Pro Tools studio down in Florida. How did he afford to build a home studio with a huge home? He was actually in a band there in Orlando called "Tabitha's Secret" with Rob Thomas. They broke up, and Rob Thomas went on to form Matchbox 20. One of the songs that Jay co-wrote with Rob made it onto the Matchbox 20 album..."3 AM." It became a smash mega-hit, and Jay made a lot of money off of it since he co-wrote it. He used the money to build his dream home and studio, which Creed then came and recorded "Weathered" at later. They found out about him and his studio because they recorded "Human Clay" at Full Sail, where Jay is a grad from. Funny how things work out...a lot of industry stuff going on and bands coming out of Orlando around that time.

OK, now back to info on "Human Clay"...

[Almost Human]

From a small article with John Kurzweg:

"Every project I’ve done is different. Creed’s Human Clay was tracked straight to hard disc . It never hit tape. It was mixed on an SSL9000."

So, there's our confirmation on that at least... thumbsup

[jomo1234]

I bought a pair of Blue Cactus mics from John a few years back....he mentioned that they were used on the Creed albums. though I am not sure in what capacity. It took over a year to burn off the bad karma of Scott Stapp

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by jomo1234

I bought a pair of Blue Cactus mics from John a few years back....he mentioned that they were used on the Creed albums. though I am not sure in what capacity. It took over a year to burn off the bad karma of Scott Stapp

Very cool...and I'd watch those things. Karma might come back and haunt you...it might start making vocals put through them inexplicably start sounding like Eddie Vetter...

But that's cool...so we have a whole slew of Audio Technica mics that were used, and some Blue Cactus mics...although we don't know in what capacity anything was used. We're making progress... thumbsup I think John Kurzweg would make a great Guest Moderator sometime.

[Kris]

Agreed (bout the moderator thing)... he did some demos at my place a while back... What a cool guy... plus he's a musician first and a bad ass guitarist...

I layed down a harmonica track at his place years ago... I showed up with my old harp amp (old 8watt champ) and mic... he was impressed that I brought my own gear, but he then said, "leave it at the door... lets try my sansamp"... the harp sounded sweet through it and to this day I've been meaning to get me one...

Granted that doesn't help you much

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by Kris

Agreed (bout the moderator thing)...

Ahem...*coughs*JULES*coughs*....

Originally Posted by Kris

I layed down a harmonica track at his place years ago... I showed up with my old harp amp (old 8watt champ) and mic... he was impressed that I brought my own gear, but he then said, "leave it at the door... lets try my sansamp"... the harp sounded sweet through it and to this day I've been meaning to get me one...

Granted that doesn't help you much

I've got one of the original Sansamp Rackmount units that they made only from '91 - '93 or so. It's basically an analog version of the PSA. That thing sounds great with just about anything through it.

Just about every story I've heard speaks about how John is a great guy who is more than willing to share studio techniques, settings, etc...and is just very down to Earth.

[MGA]

Originally Posted by Almost Human

I love the sound of that album, too. It's a great modern rock sound...just absolutely huge. I'm hoping more people can chime in and fill in some of the gaps for us.

The album that you're thinking of that was done is a house was the follow up album "Weathered." Oddly enough, there's a music connection there. The house was owned by Jay Stanley and recorded in his Pro Tools studio down in Florida. How did he afford to build a home studio with a huge home? He was actually in a band there in Orlando called "Tabitha's Secret" with Rob Thomas. They broke up, and Rob Thomas went on to form Matchbox 20. One of the songs that Jay co-wrote with Rob made it onto the Matchbox 20 album..."3 AM." It became a smash mega-hit, and Jay made a lot of money off of it since he co-wrote it. He used the money to build his dream home and studio, which Creed then came and recorded "Weathered" at later. They found out about him and his studio because they recorded "Human Clay" at Full Sail, where Jay is a grad from. Funny how things work out...a lot of industry stuff going on and bands coming out of Orlando around that time.

OK, now back to info on "Human Clay"...

Hey thanks for the info.

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by MGA

Hey thanks for the info.

No prob...it's funny how all of these guys are connected once you start digging into it.

[Almost Human]

Epic 4 year bump! It's been a while since I raised this topic, and I thought since it's been a good 4 years, there's probably a lot of guys on the board that weren't before, so maybe someone else may have some extra insight to add after all this time.

Still looking for anything else anyone can add, more specifics, etc...especially on the guitar chain. If memory serves me correct (its has been 12 years or so since I read the articles), Tremonti was using a Gibson LP with a 500T, Mesa Triple Rectos into Fender Showman 2X15's and Mesa Dual Rectifiers in Mesa 4X12's (dirty sounds) and Fender Twin Reverb Reissues (clean sounds). Still unsure as to the recording chain though.

[Methlab]

I will bump this again for you.

I actually know John and he sold me some gear back in the day. Awesome guy, I learned a lot just from his presence in the music scene. He came to shows, produced select local bands and was pretty much on fire in the late 90s when it came to modern rock.

I figured I would bump this because I know he loves the sansamp. The bass tones he gets were almost always sansamp back then. He was very complimentary of my tone, and some of it was due to the sansamp that I bought because of his reccomendation.

A lot of the info posted is correct. They recorded at the house in Bay Hill and mixed on an SSL at fullsail. Tremonti was using the Triple Rec and Fenders for his cleantone. I believe he also used a Fender Bassman, but I am not %100 on that one...it has been a while.

John can play every instrument with an alien level of talent. So he used to sample the drums and create drum parts that Scott Philips would then have to woodshed on. John is an extremely strong writer and was a signed solo artist.

He was was working with a band I was in a little bit, and was so sickenly good that he actually changed 2-3 notes of a bassline I wrote while listening to a rough demo over the phone. He could learn music so quickly that if he was called to fill on on gigs as a player, he could learn their entire set on the drive to the show. This is starting to sound like an SNL skit, so I will stop, but it is all true stuff!

After Creed, aside from other work Kelsey started doing some local bands in Orlando and really was doing some serious work engineering. He ended up teaching a few more guys his stuff (they learned from osmosis when he tracked in their studios) and there were more and more quality demos being cranked out in the modern rock genre due to this type of organic, on the fly (oh shit I better write this down!!) type of engineering.

I could honestly say that if it was not for John, and his work with Creed, I may never have had a music career. It was that big of a deal and affected every talented musician in the region.

Honestly, to this day guys are getting paid as artists and producers as a direct result of what he did down here.

[Kyle Ashley]

John's a great guy for sure. I knew him back in the early 80s when I lived in Tallahassee. I remember bumping into him one night at Bullwinkles a few months prior to the first Creed release. He told me a bit about this band and the recording work he did in his "kitchen", but I was floored a year or so later when the album was out and I saw him in the credits, only then realizing that this was what he was telling me about. A great Florida success story for sure!

[dabigfrog]

I know John , he's a friend of mine and his studio is just down the street (sorta) from our studio here in Santa Fe... I don't think he lurks much at GS but I'll poke him and see if he wants to add what he remembers...thumbsup

[paultools]

I learned something from this:

The Producer's Chair: Interview with Creed Producer John Kurzweg | Passion Breeds Followers - The Scott Stapp Fansite

[dabigfrog]

I think he is in the middle of a project right now. I asked him if he would chime in though.... time will tell. John is an awesome dude and I'm pretty sure would get a kick out of gearslutz ... busy guy ... prolly doesn't sit n surf too much ... too busy ... that's a good thing!

[John Kurzweg]

Ok—I’m gonna chime in here ---though my publicist knows I love to talk shop and doesn’t want me to give away too many secrets!--and man---some of you guys make me sound way cooler than I really am!!---
OK a little info--
The first 2 albums were done in houses in Tallahassee ----first record was recorded on adats--2nd and 3rd were pro-tools--I still think the 16-bit adat converters were amazing---better than most converters out today...the 3rd album(Weathered) was recorded in a house in Orlando --- we actually mixed that record 100 percent in the box--in that house!...My Own Prison was re mixed on a Neve 80 series console--Human Clay on a SSL 9000...and here's one little part of the recording of Human Clay----
The clean guitars were mostly Les Pauls but occasionally something else into 2 Fender twins...the cleans went through a TC processor of some kind... I usually had Kirk WAY tone down the chorusing effect etc--so it was say 90 to 95 % dry.... They were miked with one 4033 on each twin...then to Neve 311105s--(I no longer own these---kind of miss them!) with the EQ in to shape the clean gts into a Manley Elop compressor---I got rid of that compressor shortly after that album---I’m not a big fan of Manley compressors-but the elop was pretty cool...
Anyway--glad to hear some of you out there actually care how some of these records were done---and please check out the Sean Healen Band’s "Floodplain" cd-(Sean is a great singer/songwriter)--I produced/engineered/mixed/co-wrote and played all the electric guitars on that record--probably the record I’m most proud of so far that I’ve worked on.
thanks for your interest,
John Kurzweg

[paultools]

[steveschizoid]

John!!

Listened to Kiss My first thing today. Sean Healen's myspace page is now in my favorites, and I will likely pick up the cd at some point in the near future.

Your guitar solo made me smile, and I'm fairly jaded when it comes to guitar solos.

Great sounds man. Thanks!

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by dabigfrog

I think he is in the middle of a project right now. I asked him if he would chime in though.... time will tell. John is an awesome dude and I'm pretty sure would get a kick out of gearslutz ... busy guy ... prolly doesn't sit n surf too much ... too busy ... that's a good thing!

Stepbridge??

I spent a better part of a year working w John in Santa fe, have to say he is a great guy, I learned a lot, and very talented to boot. Ran into him a couple years later at namm and hung out and chatted for a couple hours like we had just worked together yesterday. Nothing but good to say.

[dabigfrog]

Frogville!

John has his own studio. We have all been to stepbridge. We built our own studio (Frogville) because none of my artists could afford to record at the step. We are happy to be forging ahead on our own.

artist owned and operated.

built by musicians, of musicians and for musicians!

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by dabigfrog

Frogville!

John has his own studio. We have all been to stepbridge. We built our own studio (Frogville) because none of my artists could afford to record at the step. We are happy to be forging ahead on our own.

artist owned and operated.

built by musicians, of musicians and for musicians!

Very cool. I helped John move in his studio when it was built. Had gear strung out between storage, stepbridge, and rancho digital. Quite a move! I left there (step and rancho) and am up in the 4 corners w my studio. Slow up here but I like the life style better.