Do you Charge for Set Up Time ???

[stevep]

How many of you guys charge for set up time and mic-ing , Getting sounds ,... headphone mix ect...... And at the end of the session tear down and burning take home CDs .


steve

[Drumsound]

I fudge the hours a bit but I do charge. I usually check the time when I start getting sounds and add an hour or two even when the set-up has taken longer. Burning CDs and whatnot is on the clock if I have to stay and do it. If I'm doing an extended back up that I can start and leave I don't charge hourly. I do charge for the back-ups, but not hourly.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by stevep

,... headphone mix ect......

steve

[stevep]

headphone mix ect......

I Just ment getting everyone happy with there sound....... and ready to record..

I dont have headphone mixers for everyone..... yet .

Mostly just wondering how many people are charging for set up.

I have always had a no charge for set up since the beginning and just stuck with it.



steve

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by stevep

I have always had a no charge for set up since the begining and just stuck with it.

Charge what it takes to pay your interns/assistants for an hour's worth of work(because they will be doing most or all of it).

Something like $15 if one or $30 for 2 people.

Always let the clients know when they are interested in booking its an option and it will help their sessions go faster so no time is wasted setting up.

This goes for loading time as well if they don't bring their own hard drives.

Never charge for breaking down.

Do charge seperately for backing up data(same as setup) and for any media incurred.

Same as before let them know in advance so no time is wasted in session and they get the most done.

[jayfrigo]

Of course. What the heck are they paying us for if not because we know where to put the mics and get sounds? That's the job, isn't it? If I'm there, spending my time, and the studio is being used, and the electricity is on...

Coming a half hour before session start time for load-in is a different issue, but once any engineering chores begin, you're in session.

[Rick Sutton]

I'm with Jay.

[gear is cool]

If we are talking about tracking days.

I always charge when I'm working which includes setting up, say if the session starts at noon and the band shows up at noon to load in they get charged from noon-till.
The way I see it is when we are actually recording I'm not really doing anything except listening (which is something) but the real work (if you want to call it that) is the set up - mic's - patchbay - phones - etc...

Do you guys charge for lunch and dinner breaks?

I try to pro-rate the time spent sitting down for some eats if we walk to a joint in the hood, if food gets delivered I charge for the break because I'm working till it shows up, eat then back to it. I quit smoking so I'm not taking those breaks during the day.

Mixing I charge for setting up.
Packing a reel of 1/2" and any Cd burn time I'm charging for which more times than not doing both at the same time.

I must admit I'm a 1 man (sometimes a assitant) operation.

Not 1 peep from anyone about charging for set up time and plenty of return clients.
They all leaving my stu stoked.


-Joe
www.orbitaudiorocks.com

[abit]

How long itll take to shoot one little movie episode?..
Set, light etc...
Hours, right?!
And shooting itself might be just a half an hour.
Huge crew involved.
I never heard that ppl get paid for 30min of actual shooting only.

In audio it's a little different traditions.
But still..

I think it depends on how much client want the place and me personally.
How much he respect me and expect from all this "down time" setup.
What was his previous experience in this place.

So, I guess we have to charge/not charge/charge something
according to all these subtleties.

[trident fan]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Of course. What the heck are they paying us for if not because we know where to put the mics and get sounds? That's the job, isn't it? If I'm there, spending my time, and the studio is being used, and the electricity is on...

Coming a half hour before session start time for load-in is a different issue, but once any engineering chores begin, you're in session.

[Improv]

At our studio for a tracking session, we don't charge until we're happy with the sound. Several reasons for this... we're slightly on the upper end as far as rates in this area, yet the clients we tend to attract don't have huge budgets. We'd rather see that money spent on doing another take or whatever it takes to make a good product.

We also take pride in our selection of microphones and pres and the care with which we match them to the scenario. I hated working in studios where I felt pressured to the point that I had to compromise my sound to fit the client's budget. My name and the studio's name is on that thing, and the listening public doesn't consider that there might be budget constraints involved when they hear, for example, a poor drum image.

Now there are circumstances where I'm working to get a sound in the client's head, and that's on their dime of course. But even fairly large sessions at our place take little more than an hour to properly set up and voice. At least, with knowledgable engineers

Clients seem to be aware of this unique stance and appreciate it. Few abuse it. Many returns. I wouldnt' want it any other way now.

[absrec]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Coming a half hour before session start time for load-in is a different issue, but once any engineering chores begin, you're in session.

YEAH!

[absrec]

I had this guy try to talk me out of an hour and a half of time one night because I was "in there messing with the drums". I was tuning them so they would sound good on your record, ****** bag! Anyway, I explained to him that if he so desired, next time I could just put one mic in the room, get a level, and hit record. But then again he could do that on his four track at home. I never heard another word about it since.

The same guy recently, in an effort to save money was trying to get me to agree to let him come in and play 10 drum tracks in one day by getting a section at a time and copy/paste-ing. He wanted me to ProTool everything together. All because he didn't want to pay a session drummer. Keep in mind that he has the most awful meter ever on guitar and is maybe the worst bass player I've ever heard. But he has a set of Pearl Exports with pinstripes and ZBT cymbals and wants to record himself playing drums. (Why did I ever let him know that I could fix things) I'm having to undo all the damage I've done since I got ProTools. You should have heard me talk him out of it, though. It was beautiful.

[doorknocker]

Set up time means that your studio can't do any other work and you'll be there too to overview it, assistant or not, so charge for it or make it part of a daily rate deal.

I think it's essential to charge for the 'tryout' i.e mics/pres/room position of drums/etc. Otherwise you could be under pressure for no reason when you want to change something eventually.

I can only speak for myself but I offer a very reasonable hourly rate and therefore it's a no-brainer to start charging clients 'as soon as they walk in'.

A plumber will commonly charge for the 'transportation' time, even when he stops for a coffee break on the way to your place. I see no reason why you shouldn't charge for the time anybody uses your premises and services, no matter what's being done.


A far more important aspect IMO is the 'time dimension' of a session. How much time should be spent getting sounds/trying every pre/etc in relation to the total amount of time booked:

- Work 'too slow' or 'elaborate' on a demo session and you might give theimpression of wanting to take advantage of the client.

- Work 'too fast' in the sense of sticking to a routine setup and 'that's good enough for now' and you might give the impression of not caring enough about the client or doing a rush job.

Yeah, scenario #1 seems much more common in today's 'everybody's got one' studio climate but that shouldn't stand against really caring about the sound and service of your operations.

YMMV

[eso]

I charge from the time that the session has been scheduled to start. If the band asks for half an hour or so to come in and set up before that time then I'll agree to it. Mainly so that they can load in without charge.

For backups, CD copies, and so on, they have their own charge, so the client does not pay studio rates on top for that. Likewise, I do not expect them to pay for the time taken to set down/pack away.

Regarding breaks. It's a basic human right. The general trend in this industry is that we work long days with very little break time, often eating whilst "on the go".

So, I charge for the duration of the day/session, and then per hour for overtime.

It really depends on how you are going in terms of schedule as to how much time you allocate for lunch, etc. I can't ever remember having a scheduled lunch or dinner break. They are taken when the time is right, and sometimes, not at all.

[crypticglobe]

Here in town in all the major studios, it's almost exclusively this way (at least in my experience):

* Load in is off the clock.
* Load out is off the clock.
* Console, microphones, cue mixes are set up to your pre-arranged settings when you get there (so you basically can start getting sounds right away). You fax your instructions in ahead of time and the assistant (included in the session cost) gets that ready for you. I usually tip this guy/gal though...especially if it's all the way I laid it out when I get there, and they are attentive to our needs during the session.
* Once you are loaded in, and people begin to fire up their instruments... the clock starts.

Most of these studios really do a minimum of a "Day" though. You are almost always informed what a "Day" consists of ahead of time too. Usually anything over 12 hours if frowned upon... unless you are blocking out a lot of time. Then, pretty much whatever you want.

This works great for me, and I think it's really fair.

[andredb]

We charge Daily
Sometimes is 7 Hours sometimes 10
I might want to get in earlier for setup, but it's up to me.
I Often give hours for free to get a better mix, a remix or a mastering I want.

Also the better the music the most benefits the artists get (in terms of extra times)

People who treat us as a Taxi fare are not welcome.
Lunch is paid time too.
We are Overbooked most of the times so if ther's we do not like (artiticaly speaking) we ask much more.
Might seems unethical but this keeps quality high!

[7rojo7]

I charge day rates or by the project, this way the fuddling around at the beginning is seen by the end as time well spent. To have someone around looking at his watch and asking a lot of stupid questions is not how I like to start a session and on the whole counterproductive, we are trying to creatte a vibe.
I have some minor label clients and independent or demo clients, I have different day rates for each group, all of them get prices for a complete service, prepro meeting; loadin/setup; recording; mixing; mastering; archiving etc... included in the price of the project.
I've found that this is the only way to offer a professional service.
The label clients pay a higher price for the guarantees that they ask for, the local clients recieve the same product but at a lower price and with less hands (brains) around to complete the task at hand.
I've worked on Maj Label hourly sessions and lockout sessions and the LO sessions always go smoother, always. At some part of the session there's a load of work that gets done fast and some slow times too. this hekps with the creative aspect, strike when the iron is hot, edit, comp, bounce, clean on creative down time, always be prepared (boy scout salute) to do these tasks when the artist is eating sleeping shitting or gaetting high.
Some of the guys here can charge for clearing toe cheese from their socks but it's not like that for everyone.

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by gear is cool

If we are talking about tracking days.

I always charge when I'm working which includes setting up, say if the session starts at noon and the band shows up at noon to load in they get charged from noon-till.
The way I see it is when we are actually recording I'm not really doing anything except listening (which is something) but the real work (if you want to call it that) is the set up - mic's - patchbay - phones - etc...

Do you guys charge for lunch and dinner breaks?

I try to pro-rate the time spent sitting down for some eats if we walk to a joint in the hood, if food gets delivered I charge for the break because I'm working till it shows up, eat then back to it. I quit smoking so I'm not taking those breaks during the day.

Mixing I charge for setting up.
Packing a reel of 1/2" and any Cd burn time I'm charging for which more times than not doing both at the same time.

I must admit I'm a 1 man (sometimes a assitant) operation.

Not 1 peep from anyone about charging for set up time and plenty of return clients.
They all leaving my stu stoked.


-Joe
www.orbitaudiorocks.com

I charge for setup time when tracking, I charge for burning at the end of the session, but if we go over by alittle I'll cut the client slack. Most of my clients have no problem with eating and staying on the clock, but for those who do, I go off the clock, it's not a big deal. It's important that all your gear is working right and that the things you need to do quickly you do so, this way you can take time to do the things that you need to take time on. I think clients appreciate that. I haven't had down time in a session in years.

[abit]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

Some of the guys here can charge for clearing toe cheese from their socks but it's not like that for everyone.

yeah.. I like this part.
Aroma de Roma.

[Push845]

Some guys take 2 hours to tune a guitar while i'm punching my clown!..My time is as important.....The clock starts at the scheduled time...if you book at 11 am...your clock starts there. It also keeps my clients from showing up 45 minutes late

[stevep]

Thanks to all for the comments,

As you may know i am building a new room in orange co. and still have a ways to go with the construction.... still kicking around some ideas for policies and marketing the new studio.

7rojo7 I charge day rates or by the project, this way the fuddling around at the beginning is seen by the end as time well spent. To have someone around looking at his watch and asking a lot of stupid questions is not how I like to start a session and on the whole counterproductive, we are trying to creatte a vibe.

Very cool
This would take the pressure off everyone i may consider this approach with an hourly rate also available.

Push845 Some guys take 2 hours to tune a guitar while i'm punching my clown!..My time is as important.....The clock starts at the scheduled time...if you book at 11 am...your clock starts there. It also keeps my clients from showing up 45 minutes late

Another good reason to charge for set up or use the day rate/project approach
the clock starts even if your stuck on the 5

andredb We charge Daily
Sometimes is 7 Hours sometimes 10
I might want to get in earlier for setup, but it's up to me.
I Often give hours for free to get a better mix, a remix or a mastering I want.

Yes
If we have run out of time and i know they cant afford to pay for more i will finish the mix and make it the best i can.
Its always better than sending them out with a not finished mix.
and they are stoked and will tell there friends and come back.

doorknocker Set up time means that your studio can't do any other work and you'll be there too to overview it, assistant or not, so charge for it or make it part of a daily rate deal.

I like the day rate idea.....

jayfrigo
Coming a half hour before session start time for load-in is a different issue, but once any engineering chores begin, you're in session.

Yes !

thethrillfactor

Charge what it takes to pay your interns/assistants for an hour's worth of work(because they will be doing most or all of it).

Something like $15 if one or $30 for 2 people.

Always let the clients know when they are interested in booking its an option and it will help their sessions go faster so no time is wasted setting up.

This goes for loading time as well if they don't bring their own hard drives.

Never charge for breaking down.

Do charge seperately for backing up data(same as setup) and for any media incurred.

Same as before let them know in advance so no time is wasted in session and they get the most done.

Cool, Thanks for your suggestions

I do recommend they bring the drums in early to adjust to the room and so i can dial them in. (in Tucson it was usually 105 deg. outside and 70 in the studio)

I have always found that when they know they aren’t being charged for setup they are more relaxed and that gives me more time to do things the way i would do them if i was recording the song for myself.

Messing around with the drums... tuning, maybe switching a snare or whatever.

Also if they run through the song and get warmed up and comfortable i think the performance is better.

Dont get me wrong...... Pro studio musicians can just walk in turn it on and nail it in a take or two.

but there are the folks that dont do much recording that need a little more time to settle in.

I guess were only talking about 1/2 hour to an hour tops for a basic setup.



I may offer the free set up in the day/project rates and charge for it in the hourly rates....


Thanks again for the input,



steve

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by stevep

How many of you guys charge for set up time and mic-ing , Getting sounds ,... headphone mix ect...... And at the end of the session tear down and burning take home CDs .

ummmmm, yes, thats what they hire you for, while the "record" light is on is actually the time you're not doing buggar all (unless you are producing).

Although I normally charge a day rate or project rate..

narco

[turk sanchez]

if I am there...I am getting paid.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by absrec

I had this guy try to talk me out of an hour and a half of time one night because I was "in there messing with the drums". I was tuning them so they would sound good on your record, ****** bag! Anyway, I explained to him that if he so desired, next time I could just put one mic in the room, get a level, and hit record. But then again he could do that on his four track at home. I never heard another word about it since.

The same guy recently, in an effort to save money was trying to get me to agree to let him come in and play 10 drum tracks in one day by getting a section at a time and copy/paste-ing. He wanted me to ProTool everything together. All because he didn't want to pay a session drummer. Keep in mind that he has the most awful meter ever on guitar and is maybe the worst bass player I've ever heard. But he has a set of Pearl Exports with pinstripes and ZBT cymbals and wants to record himself playing drums. (Why did I ever let him know that I could fix things) I'm having to undo all the damage I've done since I got ProTools. You should have heard me talk him out of it, though. It was beautiful.

I hope your cheap bastard client isn't reading this forum. So many unhappy engineers in this business.

[Chen]

I'm charging for the scheduled time+overs, I don't think I should loose money because the drummer can't get rid of the resonating tom, or the guitar player can't figure what's wrong with his industrial refrigerator lookalike rack. I think the customers should pay for a great sounding setup, pressing record is not that hard.

Setup time should be double rate

[ine-kpro...]

im very strict on charging by the hour, as soon as i pick up the phone and it's them, i start charging them and i don't even care if they've called the wrong number.

just kidding, i think theres a fine line on charges depending on how much experience you have. ive hired out studios where there was an inexperienced engineer who didn't know the equipment or studio he was working in and i thought it was a complete waste of money for us with him setting up, him having to read the manual, call up the owner and always going back and forth with the other experienced engineers in the place. i think if you work thorough and professionally, you should charge for any time accumilated, except breaks or lunches. if you're inexperienced, you have to be flexible with the hourly rate and you should not charge for inexperience or faults in the studio.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by ine-kpro...

or faults in the studio.

Clearly a client should never be charged for downtime.

[Faderjockey]

Well...I don't charge a drummer to setup or who ever to bring gear in and set it up..So I may say an hr is on me.

But as soon as I'm using my ears and I touch a mic...Clock is rolling. If they were late then I start the clock when the session was supposed to start.

I don't charge for tear down...I do charge for backups...If I'm using gear..computer counts then they have to pay something.

If you charge nothing all, that time adds up to a big fat zero...So when shit crashes..Then what...? You have to go buy say a new drive...only for you to work more hours on it and not get paid. I think if your using your tools...Which falls under setup..Because mic's/mic stands are tools..Plus your ears...Means they are paying.

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Clearly a client should never be charged for downtime.

Uh....except when they dump a 20oz coffee in your console....

That happened to us years ago...Then the dude argued that he shouldn't have to wait to get it fixed nor should he pay for the repair....

Man...I want to kick is arse every time I think about him saying that...