how does a big analog console like SSL work with Protools system?

[saikit_2003]

hi. i am a audio engineering student. My question maybe stupid, but i really want to know.

i have a really bad concept about big analog board and Protools system.
i dont know how thing like SSL work with digital thing...
in my school, it sucks, everything sucks.....everything i learn in here is digitals...but no any analog thing.

my questions are here:
1. how to get a analog console to operate with protools system?
using A/D and D/A conventor? with what gears?
2. can a console like SSL thing work as a controller for protools session like ProControl???

better forget my question and tell me how they work.....make it simple please..

thank you so much!!

God Bless you!!


kit

[jonnyclueless]

Patch teh PT outputs to the line inputs of the SSL and mix.

No they don't work as DAW controllers.

[stevep]

Inputs go to Outputs....... same as using a multi track tape machine

[XSergeantD]

Only controls you'll get from a large format console will be transport control. You can find hybrid consoles out there, it really depends how you want to engineer.

on the SL 9k, 4k, ... plugins and stuff like that are controlled by the engineer when they turn around and have the real equipment behind them (if ya have a large format console, you'll probably have a good amount of the real equipment.)
Many engineers use the PT/Large console in completely different ways. I've had some engineers work completely inside the box, and many just use PT as if it were a tape machine.

If you're still in school it's a little too early to start getting frustrated with things sucking, concentrate on learning

[djui5]

If you're still in school it's a little too early to start getting frustrated with things sucking, concentrate on learning

Nice...haha

BTW, I've found it works "better" to control the SSL's with Pro-Tools, than having the console control Pro-Tools transport.

Pro-Tools dosen't like to be told what to do...

When I mix on a console with a Pro-Tools session I seem to like using the console and outboard gear for everything, unless I have some crazy fx that I can't do with outboard gear.

I might also do some automation inside Pro-Tools, or bussing/grouping if the console has weaknesses like only 8 busses, or wacked out aux sends/etc. It also depends on the room too. If the room is in bad maintaince and a lot of the wiring is shoddy, it might be better to do more things ITB.

Like Brent said, it's more about the Engineer...

[saikit_2003]

btw, what kind of console of mixer can work as a DAW controller?

[audioalchemy]

one of the more popular consoles that can act as a DAW controller is the SSL AWS 900. It has preamps etc and all the analog board greatness but will also control tools, nuendo, dp, etc.

as far linking an ssl, or any other analog board to pro tools or any other board, the studio that I intern at basically just uses pro tools as a glorified tape machine. except we use euphonix converters connected to the core and mix cards through a format converter. it basically works like this.

console tape/buss outs --->inputs on the a/d converter ---->signal gets converted to digital------->a/d converter outputs (actually d/a) to the multitrack returns on the console.

biggity bam, you have yourself the SSL Pro Tools combo. Of course everything is a little more complicated being that you are running through a patch bay and it's a wiring nightmere, but there you have it.

Peace,
AudioAlchemy

[84K]

Everything above + Lynx or Microlynx

[Anderson]

Here's how it's done in my place (It's an Amek, not SSL, but it works the same way):

Recording:

Mics/instruments --> Console channel path 1-56 (...Cue mix through 16 AUX to musician(s)...) --> Direct Outs 1-56 with optimized signal level --> A/D converters 1-56 --> Sequoia used only as a "tape machine" --> D/A 1-56 to Console Mix Path (long faders) through Tape Returns and making a fast balance of levels for monitoring.

Mixing:

Sequoia (with eventually a few plugins, all faders at unity and no summing / direct out) --> D/A converters --> Console Tape Return --> Console Mix Path (--> Patch bay if outboard) -> Busses (-->Patch bay if outboard) --> Stereo Masters --> A/D back to Sequoia.

I manage all transport functions of Sequoia from the console's computer through MMC via a Motu Midi Express XT unit. I can only arm tracks, play/record/stop etc. But that's enough... For automation, you can either automate in the DAW or within the console - whatever suits you best. The console is fully synchronized to Sequoia through SMPTE.

I think Raf from "Alamo Sound Service" has a nice SSL 4000 that has more advanced PT control - but I think it was custom made, otherwise it should be only transport functions as far as I remember.

Cheers!

[drew]

Originally Posted by djui5

BTW, I've found it works "better" to control the SSL's with Pro-Tools, than having the console control Pro-Tools transport...

while automating the SSL has to be machine control master, PT TC master.

[borau]

Originally Posted by drew

while automating the SSL has to be machine control master, PT TC master.

I don't get that to work, PT does both for me.
You just have to press the repeat button on the ssl computer while transport is running to the start point of the mix.

[drew]

i put PT online with the transport in remote and can issue goto commands etc on the SSL and it's great, no work around needed.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by drew

i put PT online with the transport in remote and can issue goto commands etc on the SSL and it's great, no work around needed.

Sorry to bring back a really old thread with such a stupid question but I've never had to do this and always been curious.

When the transport is online in Remote, how does the SSL know where you need to go? Timecode? MIDI? Something else? Do you need another piece of equipment?

Again... sorry for the stupid question. I should really know this already as I've been sitting in front of protools 10 hours a day for years.

[Makinithappen]

Sorry again for what is, no doubt, another stupid question but does ProTools provide that somehow or are you needing a track on ProTools with timecode on it being sent to the SSL for sync? Could you elaborate please.

Or am I totally wrong. This is starting to make me feel like I belong in the "Low End Forum" :(

[James Meeker]

We have a PT HD4 rig into a 4056 G+ SSL . No automation on the console, just recall.

Generally speaking PT runs into the SSL and we mix from there. Not very complex really. We have a decent selection of outboard so there's some patching going on.

Now, I've seen some engineers basically mix in PT, plugins, automation the whole shebang and only use the console for overall level, mix buss and the mix buss compressor. On the other hand, some engineers like myself tend to use mostly the hardware and the SSL to mix. A lot of people are somewhere in between.

But yeah, you can either treat PT like a tape machine playing back the audio, or you can tap into the plugins, or do both. Very versatile.

Also, if you think the equipment is frustrating, wait until you start having to work with and for people. Hee... you'll wish you were still trying to figure out how/why/where for the SSL modes back in school.

[Makinithappen]

Also, if you think the equipment is frustrating, wait until you start having to work with and for people. Hee... you'll wish you were still trying to figure out how/why/where for the SSL modes back in school.

I'm not quite sure if you were directing that at me or the original poster. Anyway... I understand the signal flow and different ways of working with an SSL/ProTools and I do this for a living and have for quite a while so I definitely appreciate working with/for people. (sorry if your comment was not directed at me... I assume the original poster has long forgot about this thread.) My question was about syncing transport. Do you/ how do do you deal with that at your place. (btw... I've been you you guys' website a couple of times in the past... very nice place there. )

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

I'm not quite sure if you were directing that at me or the original poster. Anyway... I understand the signal flow and different ways of working with an SSL/ProTools and I do this for a living and have for quite a while so I definitely appreciate working with/for people. (sorry if your comment was not directed at me... I assume the original poster has long forgot about this thread.) My question was about syncing transport. Do you/ how do do you deal with that at your place. (btw... I've been you you guys' website a couple of times in the past... very nice place there. )

Aimed at original poster.

Thanks for the compliment!

[raykeyz]

Originally Posted by saikit_2003

2. can a console like SSL thing work as a controller for protools session like ProControl???

better forget my question and tell me how they work.....make it simple please..

thank you so much!!

God Bless you!!


kit

yes

Solid State Logic | Music

[echoclerk]

this is all a bit too high End for me, never used this kind of thing but just curious. Say you are mixing from DAW -> SSL. So you can Auotmate in the DAW or on the SSL right.

Does the SSL 'record' its own Automation?
and you Sync DAW / SSL via MIDI MMC / MIDI Time Code or is it recorded in PT as MIDI CCS or something?

So if you are saving the Mix Session for archiving - do you export the SSL Automation or something?

I'm just curious - I've never used an automated console (and probably never will) so just wondering how all the pieces fit together,

[juniorhifikit]

Originally Posted by echoclerk

this is all a bit too high End for me, never used this kind of thing but just curious. Say you are mixing from DAW -> SSL. So you can Auotmate in the DAW or on the SSL right.

correct

Does the SSL 'record' its own Automation?

yes

and you Sync DAW / SSL via MIDI MMC / MIDI Time Code or is it recorded in PT as MIDI CCS or something?

yes, you sync the two (midi TC or TC striped to a track). No, SSL automation isn't stored in the DAW (would be nice though)

So if you are saving the Mix Session for archiving - do you export the SSL Automation or something?

It's stored in it's own proprietary format on a floppy disk (remember those?) or a Bernouli drive, sometimes a Zip drive - all old/outdated storage mediums

I'm just curious - I've never used an automated console (and probably never will) so just wondering how all the pieces fit together,

You've pretty much got it straight - two separate systems. There are a few newer consoles that can control a DAW (AWS900) and the Tonelux will even USE the DAW automation to control the console. This is kind of new stuff. Expect to see more of this hybrid fun in the future.

[Tone Laborer]

So for those who might have a log jam at their DA--you just stem some of the DAW tracks?

Say you have a DA16x, a 30 track DAW project, and a 24 ch console, for example.

Just curious what work arounds people encouter as they're building these hybrid setups. The extra DA is a killer.

[echoclerk]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

correct
yes....
.

Thanks for confirmation.

I suppose there would occasionally be issues getting the Midi sync just right. (i've never had much luck with Midi Syncing..)

and to the above poster. I would think that Bouncing together some of the tracks is the only way forward when you run out of DA.

I've been having that problem myself trying to mix through an old analogue Desk - with only 16 channels of DA. I keep leaving a Stereo Pair free for "Everything Else".. Group them in the DAW and out to a stereo pair on the Desk.

[TTatman]

We use the "ZX Card" from Desk Doctor to control PT transport from the SSL.

FF and RW like a tape machine, plus auto-locate. Works great.

[The Alamo]

Originally Posted by TTatman

We use the "ZX Card" from Desk Doctor to control PT transport from the SSL.

FF and RW like a tape machine, plus auto-locate. Works great.

Same Here...

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

yes, you sync the two (midi TC or TC striped to a track). No, SSL automation isn't stored in the DAW (would be nice though)
.

AWS900 + Duality store their anaolgue automation as sysex-dumps in the DAW.

[juniorhifikit]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

AWS900 + Duality store their anaolgue automation as sysex-dumps in the DAW.

Good to know - haven't used any of their new widgets (K is the newest I've used)

[samw@SSL]

Originally Posted by kosmokrator

AWS900 + Duality store their anaolgue automation as sysex-dumps in the DAW.

Hi,

Actually these days the Automation and Total Recall are stored via SSL Logictivity. This is done via Ethernet and the data is stored on your normal computer. Duality even has an internal SD card so you'll be safe even if the power goes off.

All the best,

Sam
Solid State Logic

[juniorhifikit]

Originally Posted by samw@SSL

Hi,

Actually these days the Automation and Total Recall are stored via SSL Logictivity. This is done via Ethernet and the data is stored on your normal computer. Duality even has an internal SD card so you'll be safe even if the power goes off.

All the best,

Sam
Solid State Logic

Now if we could only do something clever like that for all those G computers out there in use every day...

[TANK]

only for curiosity, but how is calibrate pro tools with the ssl consoles?
-14 ?

[Bedlam Sound]

Hey guys.

Another silly question, but one that is slightly puzzling me.

Once you have done your mix on an SSL and have it running through the Quad Compressor and out of the mix buss. How do you get a stereo bounce back into pro tools?

I know you can route all the channels to say buss 1-2 (intputs 1-2 in pro tools) but is this not just the signals from the main fader, not the compressed mix signal?

Would it require patching the LF and RF busses back into 2 channels onto the desk then back into pro tools?

Thanks.