Pre Production planning and questions

[PT User]

Im curious, when recording full bands what pre production questions do you guys ask the client/clients.

I dont have a full space yet to record bands but wanted to know the types of questions you ask to get a game plan together?


I have a general ideal of critical things to ask but would like some input.


Eddie

[cajonezzz]

I think other than the obvious questions, it really depends on the artist.

Is it a Band? or hired guns backing an artist-

when you say Pre production, are you referring more to what you ask to ADVANCE the session? The actual mechanics involved like:
how many players, format, do they need to bring drives, how much time do we guesstimate the project will take ( a whole other thread there)
I think the main things I need to know are how many players going down Live. Are we trying to get a drum track only and then build tracks? Playing to a clik/ loops/ programming.
I'm rushing through this reply, but I really think it's an important thread. I do most work on an "all in " basis, not by the hour, so those questions can be prettty important.



When i think pre production, I think more rehearsal and arrangement work, not really rolling tape This can also include getting programming stuff together ( loops, sounds) and tones-

cz

[PT User]

Cajonezzz,

Yeah, I know its a pretty wide open question with alot of variables. I understand budget, schedule...how many musicians, style of music.

I didnt think of what format or drives, I seem to always supply the space on my drives while recording and mixing. At the end they get a dvd copy of the sessions, and then its off my drive and their responsiblity to keep the sessions safe.

I have recorded a few bands using the schools studio but mostly Im recording either hip hop or acoustic/vocalist at home in a project studio. So my experience with bands is pretty limited.

I do have 2 band sessions (Christian Band and a Gospel/r&b band) coming up in Feb and wanted to make sure I present myself in a professional manner by asking the right questions. The bands I have done in the past were of friends I know and other classmates, so there really was no pressure if we screwed something up. Obviously not paying gigs.

I dont mind you rushing thru your reply because I already learned something that I might have not asked the client.

Thank you
Eddie

[Yetti]

Im curious, when recording full bands what pre production questions do you guys ask the client/clients.

I dont have a full space yet to record bands but wanted to know the types of questions you ask to get a game plan together?


I have a general ideal of critical things to ask but would like some input.
Hey Eddie,
It helps if you can make them feel comfortable, and ask general questions to start and get a feel for the band?...What is the goal of this recording?...where do you guys see the band going?...how will this finished CD help do that.
Are they baisicly happy with their Live Sound, or do they invision wanting to add things to the recording that they cannot perform live...have they thought about that as a potetial problem or not?
Are they ready to record? Have they rehearsed every part 1000 times? If not, you will be in for the long haul, not normally a good thing for full band recording.
Does the drummer suck? Is his timing all over the map? Again, the LONG HAUL.
If there will be some creative experimentation, make a game plan on how the recording should begin. Can they get by with recording the drums, bass, and a guitar to start and build from that?
What is their Budget?
Consider if the budget constraints will force you to compromise the quality of your work. Anything less than your best effort will be bogus for everyone, and your reputation is at risk. Either do it right for the money they can afford, or decline the project.
Set the ground rules in a clear professional mannor...Doen't come to the studio drunk or stoned, you will not play well...Only the band and necessary individuals may attend the recording sessions. If you want to open the door to friends and family toward the end of the project at mixdown, make sure they understand that this is not a gig, but a serious creative process where everyone should try and be at their best.
Ask them to seriously try to solve any internal problems that they may be having, before the recording begins. In fighting between members during this time very much sucks, and can affect the performance.
Make sure that they know that the clock in your studio starts at the start time, and not when they happen to show up. A payment structure should be decided up front, possibly due at the end of every session.

Just my 2 cents, I hope some of my ramblings will help you decide what is best for you and your clients.
Yetti-

[PT User]

Originally Posted by Yetti

[I]Hey Eddie,
It helps if you can make them feel comfortable, and ask general questions to start and get a feel for the band?...What is the goal of this recording?...where do you guys see the band going?...how will this finished CD help do that.
Are they baisicly happy with their Live Sound, or do they invision wanting to add things to the recording that they cannot perform live...have they thought about that as a potetial problem or not?
Are they ready to record? Have they rehearsed every part 1000 times? If not, you will be in for the long haul, not normally a good thing for full band recording.
Does the drummer suck? Is his timing all over the map? Again, the LONG HAUL.
If there will be some creative experimentation, make a game plan on how the recording should begin. Can they get by with recording the drums, bass, and a guitar to start and build from that?
What is their Budget?
Consider if the budget constraints will force you to compromise the quality of your work. Anything less than your best effort will be bogus for everyone, and your reputation is at risk. Either do it right for the money they can afford, or decline the project.
Set the ground rules in a clear professional mannor...Doen't come to the studio drunk or stoned, you will not play well...Only the band and necessary individuals may attend the recording sessions. If you want to open the door to friends and family toward the end of the project at mixdown, make sure they understand that this is not a gig, but a serious creative process where everyone should try and be at their best.
Ask them to seriously try to solve any internal problems that they may be having, before the recording begins. In fighting between members during this time very much sucks, and can affect the performance.
Make sure that they know that the clock in your studio starts at the start time, and not when they happen to show up. A payment structure should be decided up front, possibly due at the end of every session.

Just my 2 cents, I hope some of my ramblings will help you decide what is best for you and your clients.
Yetti-

Yetti,
For your first post on Gearslutz this is excellent, exactly what I was looking for. Not sure I have to worry about the drunk and stoned part with a Christian and Gospel Band. lol but none the less things to remember in the future. Im copying all your guys inputs to Microsoft word and making a checklist to help me ask the right questions.


Welcome to GearSlutz thumbsup

[opentune]

Originally Posted by PT User

Im copying all your guys inputs to Microsoft word and making a checklist to help me ask the right questions.

That would be cool!

Maybe we can find some points that we can add to this list after you
post it here.

Good thread! Quality posts!

[Fletcher]

"What kind of budget do you have?"

From there; nature will take it's course. As you feel more comfortable with the artist(s) then you'll be able to judge whether or not it will be appropriate for you to comment, and to which member your comments/questions will be best directed.

Other than "What kind of budget do you have?" there is no script.

[PT User]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

"What kind of budget do you have?"

From there; nature will take it's course. As you feel more comfortable with the artist(s) then you'll be able to judge whether or not it will be appropriate for you to comment, and to which member your comments/questions will be best directed.

Other than "What kind of budget do you have?" there is no script.

Fletcher,

Your right that, there is no script. Im looking at as if its a laid back interview, and anyone who has had to look for a 9 to 5 job knows what type of questions is coming there way. Not all questions maybe asked but at least I'm prepared.

Eddie

[Fletcher]

There aren't any standard "interview" questions other than maybe "where do you want to take this thing?" [and "what's the budget?"]...

If you're talking about what questions they might ask you... they'll usually range from "what music do you like?" to "what have you done?" to "do you smoke?" to "what do you think you'll do to change our music?" [watch our for that one... it's a trick question]... the most important thing I've found at one of those first meetings is to just be yourself and N-E-V-E-R sell anything... if they feel comfortable with what they see and hear they'll hire you... if they don't like what they see/hear they'll pass. Remember that you're talking about spending great big chuncks of time with these people in enclosed spaces... it really helps if you kind of like [or at least can tolerate] each other.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

...the most important thing I've found at one of those first meetings is to just be yourself and N-E-V-E-R sell anything... if they feel comfortable with what they see and hear they'll hire you... if they don't like what they see/hear they'll pass. Remember that you're talking about spending great big chuncks of time with these people in enclosed spaces... it really helps if you kind of like [or at least can tolerate] each other.

thumbsup

My standard questions when I was doing this full time were simple.....

1) About what budget are you looking to stay around.

2) I would explain there are two types of "producers", the guy who lets you do your thing and makes you sound as good as he can and the guy who gets involved with the songs as an outside ear while trying to make you sound as good as he can. Before I let them answer I explained that each has positives and negatives and I am happy to do either. I also warn them that they need to remember their answer because if they have complaints later I will remind them of it!

3) I would judge my interest in the project based on how this meeting goes, before I even get to the point of what would be considered a "pre-production" meeting. If I get a bad vibe I really don't want to be locked up in a room with them for what can potentially turn out to be months. Creating art is emotional and if the emotions are bad things can get out of hand quickly. Cut your losses earlier than later is always a good idea.

These are the things I ask in the "getting to know you" phase. When we have all decided that we are going to work together I will ask things like who are your influences, what recordings do you like, what studio expereince do you all have, etc. but until you get over the stuff above you don't have anything.

[Jay Kahrs]

Probably a bigger, or at least better question then "What's the budget"? is "How do you want to spend your budget"?

If a group is limited to say $6K-10K then no doubt...you can make a decent record for that if they can play & it's used uber wisely. But if they want lavish loops & overdubs well maybe they can't knock out 15 songs & need to shoot for getting a really solid EP cranked out. Maybe they can get 15 crazy songs tracked & mixed but not at the scale they were expecting. There are at least thousand ways to split it up.

But really, for me the most important thing is that I dig & "get" the music. As a producer & mixer I need to be able to bring something to the table and after hearing a couple three songs either I get it or I don't, and if I don't then I pass on the project. Lets face it, there's no reason for anyone to make a bad record...that's a pretty bad career move for everyone involved.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Probably a bigger, or at least better question then "What's the budget"? is "How do you want to spend your budget"?

If a group is limited to say $6K-10K then no doubt...you can make a decent record for that if they can play & it's used uber wisely. But if they want lavish loops & overdubs well maybe they can't knock out 15 songs & need to shoot for getting a really solid EP cranked out. Maybe they can get 15 crazy songs tracked & mixed but not at the scale they were expecting. There are at least thousand ways to split it up.

If they knew the anwers, what do they need you for? That's where your experience and expertise comes in.


Someone already posted my answer of "what is the goal of the recording". That's the basis for every decision you make, from is the band ready to record, to how many songs and how to allocate time.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

But really, for me the most important thing is that I dig & "get" the music. As a producer & mixer I need to be able to bring something to the table and after hearing a couple three songs either I get it or I don't, and if I don't then I pass on the project. Lets face it, there's no reason for anyone to make a bad record...that's a pretty bad career move for everyone involved.

Yeah... for the first few years while you're learning it's important to "get" the music... but after a while it's more about reading the artist than "getting" the music [sorta like playing poker is more about reading your opponent(s) than the cards in your hand].

I could give a rat's ass what anyone brings to me. I'll charge more to work on stuff that is going to be "work" [like I'm either going to have to 'coach' a performance out of the sub-par players... or I'm going to have to sit around and listen to shit I would never listen to on a voluntary basis]... but a gig's a gig and the be all and end all of this gig is purely to translate the artist's intention to a medium where it can be distributed.

Now there is no way in hell I can turn "DJ Asshole" into "Easy E" [well seeing that Easy E is dead I probably could make the transformation but I don't think it's what the artist would really have in mind for the project]... I can help 'DJ Asshole' make the product into something interesting that should be able to assist with the sale of the product... or at least come close to conveying the message [and there are only 3 "Hip-Hop" selections out of 3-400 on my iPod so it's not like I study the shit].

Music is music, performance is performance... it doesn't matter if it's Hip Hop or Country and Western... it's all about being true to the translation of the artist's intention.

On the other side of the coin... if it comes to something like a "spec" deal where I'm supposed to put my time on the table and become a partner in the project... well then the artist better thrill me to the bottom of my ball sack and smell like money or they can go find some other sucker... unless I happen to really enjoy hanging with the artist and really dig the music in which case it's just fun and I couldn't give a fukk about getting paid.

[Savernake]

bump, Anyone want to continue with this thread? There's been good information on what totalk to the artist about but nothing or little on perhaps a good method for working through,say, finding 'the' guitar tone or working out what to use on drum kit, or what pre on vocals etc...

I know we could work tjeseout ourselves, but its good to hear a solid method. For example, I read on the forum somewhere that the best way to see what mic is best for that singer is to just set all of them up, plugged in and ready to go, then get them to do a couple of line into each sequencially. So obvious, so simple, but saved me some thinking time.

Anyone have a good preproduction 'timetable' as such?

[Kronos147]

I ask logistical questions. I only have some much isolation, so I have to figure out these things in advance. Normally, when people come into my room they would like to use some of the instruments. So I ask what drums they want up, and usually I get basic drums sounds before they walk in.

I ask if they will use the piano, if not, I keep her covered. If they do I offer to get it tuned, on their bill of course.

I ask about the overall scope of the project. If I am mixing, I might do things a little different than if it will be going out of house. I might not monitor with EQ on the board or use basic plugs if the project will leave the studio.

Just some things off the top of my head.

[EvilE]

the record i am making now had seriously HEAVY preproduction. we recorded all the songs in the home studio and then tried tons of ideas w/ a pod for guitar and layerd a crap load of vocals. this really got the guys thinking about the possibilities and the arrangements and the record process in general. we also gave the drummer 3 practice basic sessions to get familiar to playing w/ headphones and a click and all that. plus we had the drummer practicing all the time with a click, they even did it at a few shows. this REALLY helped.

however, if the band is really comfortable in the studio and is used to making records. they probably know what's up and all you need toget are the logistics as others have mentioned. but demoing out songs is a huge plus even for experienced studio musicians (who usually do it on their own anyway). WORD

E

[stagefright13]

First question: Budget

Also it is always good to have them record their rehearsal and give you a copy. Don't have to be great but will give you an idea of what they are. Then have them give you or tell you what CD's they expect to sound like in the final. Then it's a matter of whether they or you are capable of achieving their goal with THAT budget. But this will give you a general idea. And you can discuss from there.

As far as isolation. You can always do scratch tracks first. Then overdub. The scratch tracks often become useful later. Sometimes it just ain't worth it trying to get some bands playing to a click. But if they can great.

Wow just noticed how old this thread is lol.

[James Meeker]

Here's a few things that in general go through my mind concerning pre-production. A lot depends on how "serious" the project and artist is (i.e. budget). Once again this is my way of doing things, not to be confused with the right or wrong ways to go about things.

The core important questions are:

1.) What is the size of the project (number of songs, etc....)?

2.) What is the budget of the project?

3.) What is the goal of the project? (Demo, commercial CD, more songs for MySpace, attract a manager/agent. This can influence other decisions heavily.)

4.) Is there a deadline for having this done?

5.) What style of music?

6.) What is the expected end quality?

These six questions define the range and scope of the project. It also lets me figure out if their expectations are realistic. Obviously, things like the budget, expected quality and size of the project are all interrelated. If it looks like they want to do "mission impossible" I start trying to downsize the size of the project or look to increase the budget so that we reach a realistic agreement for doing the project.

Once that's taken care of we can start to worry more about the direction and artistry of the project. On a serious project I will want to:

1.) Hear or record a rough demo of ALL the songs we are going to be recording so I can get familiar with them. Usually this is done live, fast and crappy... this is just a tool.

2.) Work with the artists on each song to finalize arrangement changes (if any), key signature, tempo and tempo changes, parts, harmonies, vocal parts, make sure everyone has their parts written and rehearsed and so forth. I want to minimize "surprises" in the studio by making sure everyone is intimately familiar with the material. I'm also going to want to figure out who plays what part on the record; sometimes it's best to have one guitar player do all the rhythms and the other the solos, and so forth--I want to get this out of the way ASAP.

3.) Also find out if any songs are going to need instrumentation outside of the group, such as keyboards or other instruments, or other sound design. If so get the session player(s) booked and paid for as soon as possible.

4.) Talk to the artists, both as a group and individually, about the sound of the record and their instrument. Try to gather all the information and then have a meeting on that to get everyone to agree on the sonic direction of the album before we start recording. If we're going to argue about sounds I'd rather do it in pre-prod rather than in the studio. Can save a ton of hassle.

5.) Will map out the entire album from beginning to end. Song order, type of song, pacing of album. Find out if any special sounds or productions (like an intro) need to be made. Basically, even though changes may occur during production, I like to have the roadmap of the whole album in front of me at all times.

6.) Evaluate if the band's equipment is going to be up to task in the studio. May have to arrange for rental gear, or suggest the band borrow stuff from friends, other bands and so forth. Will browbeat them into getting their instruments fixed, tuned up, restrung, whatever before the recording begins. I hate wasting time on damaged gear when we're supposed to be recording.

7.) Try to secretely figure out who (if anyone) in the band is a potential problem child from both a playing or personality standpoint. I try to figure out the group's dynamics as early as possible. This will be useful later down the line if crap starts hitting the fan in the studio. I'll try to get as many of the band members on "my side" as early as possible to help keep the problem children in line ahead of time.

8.) I'll make out a schedule outlining what we are going to be recording when. That way we know if we are falling behind or ahead of schedule. I typically overestimate time so we are usually ahead of schedule by a few hours--keeps the morale up. This also lets the band know who needs to be at the studio on what day/time so there isn't confusion. Also keeps members from showing up to their session with a hangover because they "forgot" they had to record to a minimum.

These are the broad strokes. The fine details vary from project to project greatly.

Hope this helps.

[Savernake]

Excellent post, and well appreciated. Will be copying it to my computer.

[stagefright13]

Good post James!

I try to have a versatile set of instruments, amps, and drums here so I don't worry about that so much.

Of course the number of songs vs. budget is discussed after I hear the rehearsal tape. Style of music is paramount to me. I only do rock, Metal, Hard rock, or Jazz. And some Rap if I like the style. I know weird combo. But I know my limitations. That's where the rehearsal tape comes in.

[Jay Kahrs]

Bump from the past 'eh?

Interesting to get in the wayback machine especially in light of the record I wrapped several weeks back...

Originally Posted by Savernake

There's been good information on what totalk to the artist about but nothing or little on perhaps a good method for working through,say, finding 'the' guitar tone or working out what to use on drum kit, or what pre on vocals etc...

I know we could work tjeseout ourselves, but its good to hear a solid method. For example, I read on the forum somewhere that the best way to see what mic is best for that singer is to just set all of them up, plugged in and ready to go, then get them to do a couple of line into each sequencially. So obvious, so simple, but saved me some thinking time.

I like hearing and dealing with all the pieces in context. I'll put up a few mics for a singer, patch 'em and have them either start warming up or read something to me while I get the levels close... arm a bunch of tracks, press record. Go through maybe a pair of verses... stop. Then listen back. Only then, in the context of the rest of the song will a mic be chosen.

Same goes for guitars, keys, whatever. Any & all underdubs... process is the same. Or at least the thought... gotta have it all "in context" to make sense of anything.

I still don't & won't take a gig with an artist I don't like just for money...

Lifes too short.

At that point I'd rather work at Walmart then have to drug myself up just to endure music I don't like... but thankfully I can pick & choose my gigs to some degree. I'd be doing something else if I felt like I had nothing to offer. If I can't understand the music and the artistic reference point then the chances of making a bad record go up, and I STILL think a bad record is a bad career move for everyone!

Well, maybe I wouldn't take the Walmart gig... ... shoe salesman? What are the hours?! hahaha

Anyway, the outline James made is eerily close to my own! Maybe slightly rearranged... the genre of the artist is fairly important, I really only work with "performance based" music rather then "construction based" acts... I need to hear the music before there's any further discussion of anything... doesn't matter if the budget is $40,000 or $4000.

Money can be an "ugly" subject with some people... I find that "budget" is best discussed somewhere towards the center. If it's the "first" question that can scare off some more sensitive & gunshy artistic types... and putting it off too long can lead to wasted time on both ends.