Moving faders for vca SSL consoles

[Pelle G]

P&G faders are a notch up in quality and feel.
I used alps at first. But when mounted next to the P&G they felt very cheap.
I actually liked the Japanese TKD faders better than P&G, but they are 5 times the price.
It's easy to modify for the later for the deluxe version.

Anyway, the motor drivers and fader positioning is the simple part (even if I'm a bit **** about it). The interface towards the SSL VCA's is more tricky. There's a lot of data to shuffle around. Mute and volume is handled on the same pin. Needs to be extracted and combined.

- - -

BTW. Sorry for not answering messages and emails. I've been very busy with a long mixing spree. I'll be finished by the end of next week and after that I dive into this, head first.

I've just received a new revision of the VCA board and gonna test them across the whole console.

I've arranged a business to assemble the boards for me so no more baking at home. I'm gonna miss the smell.

So. Beginning of february I'll post some videos of the full system at work. The proto's will be ready late feb / early mars.

[Robbie Ost]

Can't wait!

[clip6]

Pelle saw this and thought it may be something you could use in allowing us to use our small faders as controllers.

WNAMM12: CopperLAN Now Commercial Release, Lets push for a new standard interface - could this be it? (Video) -Sonicstate.com

[Pelle G]

Originally Posted by clip6

Pelle saw this and thought it may be something you could use in allowing us to use our small faders as controllers.

WNAMM12: CopperLAN Now Commercial Release, Lets push for a new standard interface - could this be it? (Video) -Sonicstate.com

Yeah. I've seen that. It's close to what I'm doing but still ... not. For whatever fader and timing resolution needed a simple USB interface is enough.
And, the standard Control Surface HUI is more than enough to work with faders.

I don't really get what you mean with small faders? You mean the SSL small faders? If so, they're standard audio faders and can't really be interfaced. You can swap them out for a linear or other data faders but then you lose the audio function.

The cool thing about CopperLan is the diversity when it comes to development. They really work hard to get all types of developers to use their interface. Hobby or big time.
Though, I couldn't really find the specs I was interested in when I strolled around their site. It would be interesting to see what the latency is, how fast data is shuffling and turning up at the different points.

Well well... I'm gonna keep an eye on it. But for now, I leave out the ability to control my mixes from my iPad / iPhone / internet / joystick.

[clip6]

Yea the small faders on the SSL. Somebody's going to do something with this. It looks great and mature at this point. The new automation system from API with embedded CPU looks good also.

[Pelle G]

Yes. The API solution look nice indeed. Should be based on Automix / Uptown. Uptown 2000 was my favorite.
I also had a PC free system on my mind for a while. But, then... designing the front end was the most fun part. Kind of why I started this project.

[muziekschuur]

Any news? Is this still only for SSL desks?

[Pelle G]

Proof of labour...

MobileMe Gallery

I'm working full time on this now. Yesterday was first time testing the new VCA cards. I've got 3 cards hooked up here (24 channels).

The video is showing the bank switching in action. Pretty similar to how a control surface work.

Still tons of software touch ups to do. I'll report back soon.

[waveterm]

Looking very good Pelle !

WT

[GabrielOgrin]

great keep up the good work!

g.

[Steve Honest]

hi there

Having just bought 2 4000e s im very interested to know more about this system when you are happy to release it,
steve

[TapeOpAl]

Originally Posted by Pelle G

Proof of labour...

MobileMe Gallery

I'm working full time on this now. Yesterday was first time testing the new VCA cards. I've got 3 cards hooked up here (24 channels).

The video is showing the bank switching in action. Pretty similar to how a control surface work.

Still tons of software touch ups to do. I'll report back soon.

Amazing work!

[mobilemozart]

Impressive. What a dream to be able to replace the mix-computer (and Power Supply). My G-Series is patiently watching progress...

Originally Posted by Pelle G

Proof of labour...

MobileMe Gallery

I'm working full time on this now. Yesterday was first time testing the new VCA cards. I've got 3 cards hooked up here (24 channels).

The video is showing the bank switching in action. Pretty similar to how a control surface work.

Still tons of software touch ups to do. I'll report back soon.

[PhilE]

OK- This is VERY exciting, I was talking about a replacement for the SSL computer a few years ago and got brushed off a bit... but this is what I've wanted to see!

[mata_haze]

Can't wait for this....

[phatbeatstudio]

For replaceing a SSL cpu with a new cpu

a 5 year old dual core pentium 4 is way more cpu than the stock SSL cpu . Why isn't it just a matter of getting someone to port the SSL program to windows. Of coarse we would need a connection to the console but that shouldn't be a problem. Just on the electric and maintenance cost never mind the the convenience of getting rid of a 30 year old cpu. This should be done soon as possible. Im sure SSL owners everywhere would all chip on this. I would bet it would be a upgrade EVERY SSL owner would buy within months.
Keep it windows pc based we don't need MAC PROs to run a driver for a console. $500 cpu, cost of porting software and a connector. should cost well under $2000 on a bulk buy with many SSL owners. And who ever ever does it first will be loved by all SSL owners

"GET UR DONE" Larry The Cable Guy quote

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

For replaceing a SSL cpu with a new cpu

a 5 year old dual core pentium 4 is way more cpu than the stock SSL cpu . Why isn't it just a matter of getting someone to port the SSL program to windows. Of coarse we would need a connection to the console but that shouldn't be a problem. Just on the electric and maintenance cost never mind the the convenience of getting rid of a 30 year old cpu. This should be done soon as possible. Im sure SSL owners everywhere would all chip on this. I would bet it would be a upgrade EVERY SSL owner would buy within months.
Keep it windows pc based we don't need MAC PROs to run a driver for a console. $500 cpu, cost of porting software and a connector. should cost well under $2000 on a bulk buy with many SSL owners. And who ever ever does it first will be loved by all SSL owners

"GET UR DONE" Larry The Cable Guy quote

1 - most people who use SSLs are perfectly happy with the automation - its a bit archaic yes, but once you know it, you know it. Changing this out for an unfamiliar system will actually put clients off, particularly the diehard old schoolers who are often the main client base for many ssl rooms. All else being equal, I'd choose the devil I know over the devil I don't every time.

2 - you seem to think its a trivial matter to "port" the Ssl code to windows, and to interface the faders with a computer. From the y you write, it would seem like you're a seasoned programmer who knows exactly how to do this...but from past posts, I'm guessing you're not. These things are ALWAYS more complicated than you might think. You're going to need dedicated hardware ie pcie cards/USB interface, and the r and d won't come cheap. You think $2k a shot, I'd say it'd be more like 10k - look at the price of CLASP, a similar niche product - and then you won't find every one queuing up to retrofit their consoles. IF you could get 100 ssl owners to pay $2 k upfront, you might have a chance. Otherwise, who's going to fund it? It's hardly s great investment opportunity.

I would have thought the absolute best thing to do would be to retrofit the j/k automation systems, or even encore/flying faders, to g series consoles. That no one has done this over the 10 years the systems have been available says something, I think.

I'm not disagreeing that it'd be a great idea, and something should be done sooner rather than later, but it's just not going to be as simple as you think.

[Pelle G]

@ Psycho Monk : Exactly. That's my problem.
It was 1000 fold more work than I could ever imagine.

Writing the software is actually one of the easier tasks (part from the graphics)
Then comes designing A/D D/A that hold high end specs. It needs filters, top linear power supplies, tons of voltage regulators. Design, design, design.

I know some of you are waiting for me and maybe I should update more often regarding the progress.
Well, sometimes I run into deep trouble that make me lose faith in the whole thing. These are the times I go and hide in a cave for a while, sorry.

@ Phatbeat : A good thing though is that I've been trying hard to always design my system so it's very modular. If you want it cheap it's possible to just use the PC and the A/D D/A cards. No motor faders. And, I'm using a standard dual core cpu so it's basically the cards and the PSU (plus my work, of course).

[Pelle G]

... and. a little briefing from my lab:

I needed to isolate the voltages with some more regulators. Hence, new card design all around. So, it's been like - cad - speak to China - cad - solder - solder - code - solder - measure - code - code - code - measure - code - code ...

Now. I'm working on a record until mid June. My new cards are installed in my console but no one is mixing until June 10th or so. Only recording. I'll test it out for a week or two in June. If everything is stable then I'll order some pick-and-placed cards so I can assemble a few more prototypes.

There you have my schedule for now.

[meteo]

pelle i really appreciate what you are doing. i hope this dream will come true reality soon. I really want to be your client!!!

[Matt Syson]

Hi
While 'knocking' the 30 year old CPU in the original system it is probably one of the most reliable parts. I have wondered about building new automation myself but I 'don't do code' but lots of hardware.
Matt S

[mobilemozart]

Keep going Pelle! I really appreciate that you're working so hard on this.

[mata_haze]

Go go go Pelle!
I am surely going to be one of your customers!

Mattia.

[phatbeatstudio]

[QUOTE=psycho_monkey;7865317]1 - From the y you write, it would seem like you're a seasoned programmer .

Well thanks for the compliment on another site I was told my grammar skills were so bad they couldn't understand what I was trying to say.

I just started learning computers. I have not a bad idea of how to program a computer.
All I said was , Cheap new computers have better processing capabilities than those SSL CPUs. So why can't the program just be ported to a new platform. Even if it cost many thousands of dollars to have some computer tech do it I think if SSL owners chipped in $200 bucks each it could make it happen.
Wouldn't you pay $200 for that and maybe another $200 for a pcie card to hook it into. I think you would . Or at least I think almost any person would, who actually owns a SSL . I don't own a SSL yet ,Im just interested in RESTO MODS of the older but still PRIZED consoles for there sound quality,s. Im interested in the pursuit of revamping the old CPU technology to ensure the tone in the coveted consoles doesn't get lost in favour of convenience of 1 and 0s of the digital world.
I fell in love with ProTools last year, its the cleanest sound iv ever heard. But nothing compares to real analogue EQ. in my humble opinion. I couldn't give a crap about the automation on these consoles, I will automate in protools edit in protools. Set the SSL to unity then EQ to taste on the SSL.
I really doubt I will ever use a SSL computers for automation. So I guess this thread isn't really for me . I just have a different perspective thats all.

I would just like to hear these things still making beautiful music in 40 years.

[Pelle G]

[QUOTE=phatbeatstudio;7921370]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

1 - From the y you write, it would seem like you're a seasoned programmer .

Well thanks for the compliment on another site I was told my grammar skills were so bad they couldn't understand what I was trying to say.

I just started learning computers. I have not a bad idea of how to program a computer.
All I said was , Cheap new computers have better processing capabilities than those SSL CPUs. So why can't the program just be ported to a new platform. Even if it cost many thousands of dollars to have some computer tech do it I think if SSL owners chipped in $200 bucks each it could make it happen.
Wouldn't you pay $200 for that and maybe another $200 for a pcie card to hook it into. I think you would . Or at least I think almost any person would, who actually owns a SSL . I don't own a SSL yet ,Im just interested in RESTO MODS of the older but still PRIZED consoles for there sound quality,s. Im interested in the pursuit of revamping the old CPU technology to ensure the tone in the coveted consoles doesn't get lost in favour of convenience of 1 and 0s of the digital world.
I fell in love with ProTools last year, its the cleanest sound iv ever heard. But nothing compares to real analogue EQ. in my humble opinion. I couldn't give a crap about the automation on these consoles, I will automate in protools edit in protools. Set the SSL to unity then EQ to taste on the SSL.
I really doubt I will ever use a SSL computers for automation. So I guess this thread isn't really for me . I just have a different perspective thats all.

I would just like to hear these things still making beautiful music in 40 years.

Well. You're free to leave the thread whenever you want.

I'm thinking of a way to explain the basics of computer structure .. but ..you know what: Let me just get the door for you instead.