Vintage Harrison 24-series Console

[Clueless]

Subscribing to this thread and posting my little Harrison story...

I'm getting a brand-new Harrison Trion Mk-II console with 48 faders and 96 fully-resourced DSP channels @ 96K (which can also be 192 channels @ 48K). I made that decision after touring the Harrison factory, talking with the engineers, and being *so impressed*. Now all I need to do to enjoy it is to get the room finished. I can't wait!

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by Brofalk

I was working at Marcus Music (now Studio 301) in the late 70s. They bought the first 32 series Harrison in Sweden and later some other Sweden studios went along. Polar, Bastun and some other. Didn´t Bohus studios have one??
ABBAs "The Album" was mainly recorded at Marcus on this desk and i had the pleasure to assist Michael B. Tretow on some tracks.
But mostly i remeber a lot of Finnish acts from Love records that came to record at Marcus.
Pics can be found at ABBA - The Album

/Fredrik B

Thanks for the great info!

As a finn, those Love Records sessions were really legendary as only the best from Love got to record at Polar etc. And those recordings tended to sound the best...

In Finland, only the Finnish Broadcasting Company had a 32/24 series Harrison at that time, that is at my studio nowadays. And the one at Polar is now in Germany (the big one with the sidecar) and the other one (3232) is now in Finland at Martin Kantola's studio. All of them in great working condition, i've understood, still used daily to make music.

It would be nice to hear some experieces you had back in the old days with those Harrisons, maybe some little tricks and stuff that you did with them because those original 32/24-series desks are pretty original and have amazing amount of different possibilities due to the routing/status logic...

[mintytowel]

It would be nice to hear some experieces you had back in the old days with those Harrisons, maybe some little tricks and stuff that you did with them because those original 32/24-series desks are pretty original and have amazing amount of different possibilities due to the routing/status logic...[/QUOTE]

Yeah - what that guy said!

[jon_waite]

Can I have it?

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by jon_waite

Can I have it?

What exatcly you want to have?

[jon_waite]

The Harrison :D

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by jon_waite

The Harrison :D

Here you go.

Mischpulte

[roginator]

Originally Posted by Telefunk

Here you go.

Mischpulte

I think that Harrison for sell is actually here in Zagreb I know owner!!

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by roginator

I think that Harrison for sell is actually here in Zagreb I know owner!!

TRUE!

Harrison 4032 Console - resurrecting the legend

[BoS1]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Subscribing to this thread and posting my little Harrison story...

I'm getting a brand-new Harrison Trion Mk-II console with 48 faders and 96 fully-resourced DSP channels @ 96K (which can also be 192 channels @ 48K). I made that decision after touring the Harrison factory, talking with the engineers, and being *so impressed*. Now all I need to do to enjoy it is to get the room finished. I can't wait!

Hi..... couldn't resist joining Gearslutz and also subscribing to this thread regarding my Harrison 4032c modules. I live in South Africa and own the console that tracked Paul Simon's classic Graceland album. (for anyone interested check out) SOS
I'm not too technical (hey I'm a music producer!!) but it also has Valley People vca's etc and all I remember is it was an incredibly great sounding desk when I used to still use it. (especially for rock ...it recorded Seether's debut album Fragile when they were called Saron Gas).
Anyway unfortunately when I got married I pulled out all the channel strips from the console and put them in storage in my garage (yes I do REGRET this now!!)...so I'm left with 40 or 42 strips ,the master section and the power supplies. They were in perfect working order ....anyone any ideas what I should do with them ?? Maybe there's a project waiting to happen !!

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by BoS1

Hi..... couldn't resist joining Gearslutz and also subscribing to this thread regarding my Harrison 4032c modules. I live in South Africa and own the console that tracked Paul Simon's classic Graceland album. (for anyone interested check out) SOS
I'm not too technical (hey I'm a music producer!!) but it also has Valley People vca's etc and all I remember is it was an incredibly great sounding desk when I used to still use it. (especially for rock ...it recorded Seether's debut album Fragile when they were called Saron Gas).
Anyway unfortunately when I got married I pulled out all the channel strips from the console and put them in storage in my garage (yes I do REGRET this now!!)...so I'm left with 40 or 42 strips ,the master section and the power supplies. They were in perfect working order ....anyone any ideas what I should do with them ?? Maybe there's a project waiting to happen !!

Do you mean that you don't have the chassis anymore?! Only the strips?

btw, the sos link didnt work, so here it is: Paul Simon 'You Can Call Me Al' | Classic Tracks

[BoS1]

Originally Posted by Telefunk

Do you mean that you don't have the chassis anymore?! Only the strips?

btw, the sos link didnt work, so here it is: Paul Simon 'You Can Call Me Al' | Classic Tracks

Thanks for correcting the link...yes unfortunately it was left behind in Johannesburg..I'm trying to track it down but not too hopeful !

[BoS1]

Originally Posted by BoS1

Thanks for correcting the link...yes unfortunately it was left behind in Johannesburg..I'm trying to track it down but not too hopeful !

Sorry just to be precise...yes I no longer have the chassis..just the channel strips (40 or 42), master section, 2 power amps and the original manuals.

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by BoS1

Sorry just to be precise...yes I no longer have the chassis..just the channel strips (40 or 42), master section, 2 power amps and the original manuals.

Well, if there's ANY chance of finding the chassis i'd do my best of finding it. But otherwise it depends how you want to work. If you have loads of good outboard etc. it's essential to have a great mixing desk. Especially with the in-line consoles like 4032c, with all it's FET switching logic possibilities it's so much more than the sum of it's parts.

But as you have used the Harrison when it was still complete, you know all this.

With only the strips left, all you have is lots of great pre amps and eq's that can be racked...IMHO

sorry, let's hope i'm wrong.

EDIT: one option is to try to find a new chassis for it, i remember reading few months ago from somewhere that there was one 4032 put to pieces in belgium or somewhere just a while ago... it's going to be hard but not impossible.

[BoS1]

Originally Posted by Telefunk

Well, if there's ANY chance of finding the chassis i'd do my best of finding it. But otherwise it depends how you want to work. If you have loads of good outboard etc. it's essential to have a great mixing desk. Especially with the in-line consoles like 4032c, with all it's FET switching logic possibilities it's so much more than the sum of it's parts.

But as you have used the Harrison when it was still complete, you know all this.

With only the strips left, all you have is lots of great pre amps and eq's that can be racked...IMHO

sorry, let's hope i'm wrong.

EDIT: one option is to try to find a new chassis for it, i remember reading few months ago from somewhere that there was one 4032 put to pieces in belgium or somewhere just a while ago... it's going to be hard but not impossible.

Really appreciate the feedback... I could kick myself for leaving the chassis behind ! But am determined the strips will have new life breathed into them again..!! Was having a good look at one just now and they really are all in very good condition.They deserve better than to be stuck in my garage!!

[Telefunk]

Ok, little update on the restoration project:

I finally got time to finish the re-chipping.

I used:

-OPA1611 in the summing buss, LME49710 was also nice as was the original Signatics 5534's but OPA1611 was just tiny little bit more punchy.

-All other places (preamp, eq, master, line driver, inserts...) i used LME49710 or it's quad version LME49740 because it has the most transparent sound.

Using OPA's here was not a option since they were too colouring and if you use lots and lots of colouring opamps in series the end result is not desirable...so only OPA was in the summing buss.

The desk sounds bit more transparent with new opamps but still definitely Harrison because of the transformers etc. But the difference between the original HA-4605-5 and LME49740 is not huge but it becomes an issue after having lots of them in series. Also power consumption can become an issue if using the original PSU with 40 channels or more...

But the difference between HA911 and LME49710 is huge.

Only thing i havent tried yet is John Hardy 990 DOA's in the summing buss, is it worth a try? Any opinions?

[Jim Williams]

Check the DC on the output pins of the replaced LME opamps AND the OPA1611's. Those are precision opamps and I found most of those caps can be removed. The fog comes from those crappy el caps. Get rid of them and it opens up nicely. On the sum opamp, add a small 4.75 k resistor from pin 4 to pin 6. That will shut off the lower driver transistor on the die and offer class A operation up to about +6dbu. Then pullout the input cap to the sum opamp and add a small ferrite bead for rf protection. Then remove the output cap from pin 6.

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Check the DC on the output pins of the replaced LME opamps AND the OPA1611's. Those are precision opamps and I found most of those caps can be removed. The fog comes from those crappy el caps. Get rid of them and it opens up nicely. On the sum opamp, add a small 4.75 k resistor from pin 4 to pin 6. That will shut off the lower driver transistor on the die and offer class A operation up to about +6dbu. Then pullout the input cap to the sum opamp and add a small ferrite bead for rf protection. Then remove the output cap from pin 6.

Thank you Sir! Great info!

The Gain Stages in the Harrison 24c master section goes like this:


Sum Amp -> 220uF cap -> Patch -> 220uF cap -> Sum Ret Amp -> 10uF cap -> VCA -> 220uF cap -> Line Drivers Out

Can I remove all these caps in between?

What is low enough DC?

The input cap for the sum amp is located in the output of the channel strip, do mean i should remove this?

[Telefunk]

Jim, one question more...

How much the power consumption increases when using the opamps in class A? Roughly...

[Telefunk]

As I was rechipping the mic pre's i thought it would be good idea to use API 2520 DOA's in few channels, just to get a little more options.

So, I checked the schematics for API mic pre and to my surprise it looked like i've seen it before...

There's Harrison mic pre used in 24c and 32c (The transformer version) and an old API mic pre schematic, nearly identical, only the IC is different.

So, just by changing the 3500 to 2520, do I get API pre's?

[Telefunk]

Just thought I should update about re-chipping:

I have been in contact with the people at Harrison and they confirmed that the absolute max output of the original PSU is 5A. If you go over that you're going to get troubles.

The problem is that the original HA4605-5 chip takes around 5mA's and LME49740 takes around 20mA. So, you're going to have to be VERY carefull and keep measuring the total current while re-chipping.

The original PSU was designed for 4032 and since i have the 2824, i have a bit more room to play but with 4032 you are already much closer to the limit.

But probably the most important thing is that HA4605 is still very good sounding chip. Biggest advantage with OPA's and LME's is found in the master/monitor section and especially the summing amp. Other places, HA4605 does the job PERFECTLY.

Good luck.thumbsup

[jeremyglover]

thanks for all the great info telefunk!
i will post some pics of my 12 channel MR2 when she's done.
cheers, jeremy

[adassumpcao]

This desk is beautiful congratulations for the nice work! Just out of curiosity, how much overall power does it consumes?

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by adassumpcao

This desk is beautiful congratulations for the nice work! Just out of curiosity, how much overall power does it consumes?

With 28 channels plus the master channels with original HA-4605-5 op-amps, its bit more than 3 amps.

Actually, the original PSU gives 10 amps, not 5A.

[Ossicle]

Originally Posted by Telefunk

Harrison makes living in Finland much easier thumbsup

lol

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Telefunk

Thank you Sir! Great info!

The Gain Stages in the Harrison 24c master section goes like this:


Sum Amp -> 220uF cap -> Patch -> 220uF cap -> Sum Ret Amp -> 10uF cap -> VCA -> 220uF cap -> Line Drivers Out

Can I remove all these caps in between?

What is low enough DC?

The input cap for the sum amp is located in the output of the channel strip, do mean i should remove this?

Yes, remove it. Use a ferrite bead in it's place. You may need to keep the cap in front of the VCA, they tend to not like DC. If so, bypass it with a quality polyprop film cap. Low DC is a couple of millivolts or less. I use LM6172 duals for the 5532 output drivers, those will push over 100 ma while only idling at 2.3 ma, 1/2 of a 5532. Use a LME part and you may be able to remove the output el caps too.

The beauty of the Harrison designs is they were thorough. Each opamp has local .1 uf ceramic psu bypass caps and the feedback loops are always limited. Therefore, opamp replacement is as easy as plugging them in. They also give a breadboard area on each card for mods and changes, they thought ahead as many consoles used those spaces for mods, at Warner Bros, they are populated with extra stuff.

The only weakness is the power supplies were sometimes too small and a lot of the layout traces are very thin, including some ground returns.

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

The only weakness is the power supplies were sometimes too small and a lot of the layout traces are very thin, including some ground returns.

Yes, they used the same PSU for 2824 and 4832.

But luckily many people bought spare PSU's and it's very easy to connect both of them, if you have the 4832, just use one PSU per 24 channels. Problem solved.

2824 takes around 3A and the PSU gives 10A, plenty of room for modern op-amps.

24c and 32c had much better layout traces than the older revisions...especially the grounding was much heavier in 24c and 32c because the Valley People/Allison Research VCA's were cleaner than the old DBX VCA's. Old DBX's covered some of the weaknesses in grounding.

[jeremyglover]

hey telefunk, how's the console going ???

[Telefunk]

Originally Posted by jeremyglover

hey telefunk, how's the console going ???

Great, Thanks for asking!

We're working every day with it, zero issues and it sounds fabulous.

I can't underline enough, that restauration should be thorough when done for these old vintage consoles, then life is just so much easier with them.

I think i will stick with the last mix buss mod we did, OPA1611 biased into class A. No need for DOA's.

[mintytowel]

Hey did you do anything with the mic pre's. My desk is coming along slow but sure, hard to bring one back to life on a shoestring budget. Curious to see what you did with the pre's and how you liked it.