Urge vs. iTunes! Will It Bring High End/High Definition Back To The Future?

[777]

Urge vs. iTunes!

Will it bring high end/high definition back to the future? Urge(a joint venture between MTV, & Microsoft) is claiming to be in our not to distant future what iTunes currently is. But with at least CD quality audio(broadcast). Can we expect more? All of this as part of Microsoft's new rollout of 'Vista'. If we get CD quality audio, or even more then DXD, or DSD may come back into our field of vision as having future proof relevancy. As it seems now people don't care so much about audio quality because the majority is winding up mp3 anyhow(the trend direction). Could a turnaround be in store?

Additionally, an increase in audio quality is apparently minimal in comparison with what else Microsoft has in store. And much of this is to grow out of the recently introduced X Box-360. High Definition DVD, & the audio attached/associated with it is going to be a major step forward. Don't believe me. Check this out!

******//www.microsoft.com/events/exec...billgates.mspx

Then click on 56Kbps, 100Kbps, or 300Kbps.

Also the prospect of delivering High Definition music videos with DXD, or other High Definition audio on the new High Definition DVD discs(potentially 50GB capacity) leaves room for much potential.

A 777 Subject.

P.S.: Was'nt sure where to put this thread but High End seemed appropriate due to the fact that quality production/equipment may seem to matter once again relative to potential final delivery formats. Move it if it has to be moved though.

[jdunn]

Uncompressed audio/video delivery on the web will be limited by the end user's connection speed. If you don't have at least T1 speed, what's the point?

Why doesn't Bill Gates just pay for wiring the entire world with a fiber connection or something? He could probably afford it, and he'd have more customers.

[84K]

Urge has a shot using the partnership with Windows to fuel it. Maybe Itunes has already built up too much of a lead. A close friend working on Urge for Viacom has been planning this for over a year... they have a massive plan and large budget to launch (considering Viacom has recently been downsizing employees and cutting budgets for most channels/programs).

[777]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think that 'Urge' has a strong shot at the music market, & especially with all that Microsoft is doing to link your X Box, TV, Computer, Tablet, & Cellphone together for a type of universal cross-functionality. And this especially in the realm of organization, business, & logistics. The high-end capacity for audio can potentially be realized once again with benefits in the High Definition Video/Music/Film discs of the future(50Gig DVD's).

A 777 Subject.

[T_R_S]

Wow WMP has crappy streaming video quality.
No substance in the annoucement.
If it doesn't work with the #1 portable music player it will fail.
Most consumers are not interested in high quality they want quanity in a small package.
The 2 high end audio stores near me do not even sell an SACD or DVD-Audio player. All they have is $20K CD players that play 16 bit CD format for the 1970's

[Rob G]

TRS,

I don't know. This 'Urge' thing actually does look promising. If radio broacasts are uncompressed 'CD' quality then I'd think that downloads/purchases would/could/should be at higher resolutions. The thing that could hook alot of people that are iPod fans is the X Box-360 integration. It's like X Box-360/Windows OS-Palm-Cellphone-Media Player users vs. iPod users. I'd rather have a Palm cell phone that runs on Windows OS, & does everything that a Blackberry, & iPod can do all in one than just an iPod. This is what Microsoft is about to introduce(or at least seems so).


Rob G..

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Wow WMP has crappy streaming video quality.
No substance in the annoucement.
If it doesn't work with the #1 portable music player it will fail.
Most consumers are not interested in high quality they want quanity in a small package.
The 2 high end audio stores near me do not even sell an SACD or DVD-Audio player. All they have is $20K CD players that play 16 bit CD format for the 1970's

The second system to jump into the market is going to have a tough time if the first system has already caught on. Unless it has drastic functional advantages. Sound quality is NOT one of those advantages that will make a difference to 99% of the customers out there. MP3s are proof of that. Look back at ADAT vs. DA-88. ADATs hit the street only six months before Tascam's competitive product. But the Tascam was more expensive, though better engineered and more reliable. But there's a reason we call it "the ADAT revolution." ADATs won, in sheer sales numbers if nothing else.

Integration of game consoles with everything else electronic is certainly a viable option for the future. Will it happen? We'll know in about two years. Most likely we'll know after the next Christmas sales season. Customers vote with cash. It won't be hard to figure out.

[777]

The trend of going towards the sonic minimum(mp3's, & etc.) could be about to reverse. The writer of the following thread is known for spotting trends in electronics(how he got/keeps his job), & he seems to express a peaked interest in hi-fi, music on vinyl, & music on CD. Based upon his reporting it could be possible that consumers are tired of cheasy audio. We've seen how skateboards, lowered automobile suspensions, loud car audio systems, SUV's, & iPod's have caught. What if ultra-hi-fi becomes the new 'it'.


******//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10742957/


A 777 Subject.

P.S.: Naysayers always say nay until their belief's are proven wrong. Prophets are considered 'crazy' until their prophecies are proven right. Also Dynaudio makes car audio set ups last I checked.

[MAProTulz]

Yep, Dynaudio makes REALLY NICE car setups. The drivers in my Volvo are from Dynaudio, and they sound purty

[Mike O]

No idea if MS will be successful with this. But MS has a VERY long history of taking tactical advantage of earlier efforts (including their own). The do seem to have accepted some of the concepts attributed to Japan (somewhat more correctly attributed to Deming) - measured continuous improvement.

It took them how long to get what most would call a stable OS? To the point that Digi uses a pared down version in the Venue successfully. Yep, a long time.

Lotus 123, Wordperfect, etc. anyone? Both examples of first to TOTALLY dominate the market and subsequently squashed by MS. Both arguably better products than MS initial efforts (I still miss both).

It seems MS has identified an even bigger market than "business" software as a core profit center - audio/video content integrated into EVERYTHING (home, business, liesure).

I HOPE it means good things for us all. NOT thrilled about MS move toward "renting" apps and services. Something to watch.

[Plush]

iTunes does not use MP3, rather, it's MP4 (AAC).

Unless the whole world is wired with broadband, very large files will, because of their inaccessability, fall on deaf ears.

[777]

Plush,

I don't know about you but I can hear the difference between mp3/mp4 audio, & uncompressed 44.1 16bit audio. I'm not alone. If High Definition is the future then it's the future.

A 777 Subject.

[littledoodler]

aac sounds loads better than mp3

[Bishbashbosh]

Originally Posted by littledoodler

aac sounds loads better than mp3

It certainly does..... and at the rate compression technology is advancing, my money would be on a great sounding compression technology (like lossless, but smaller) which comes from the Apple/iTunes stable, rather than anything else.
Surely as the iPod is the standard, any forward progression that Apple and their developers make has a far greater likelihood of success, as the hardware (and also software) infrastructure is already set up, and hugely popular.

Microsoft spent a gazillion dollars on the XBox, and they already had a potential market with the huge number of PC games already available when the XBox went to market. But incompatibility was their downfall..... and guess what, everybody still has playstations or PS2's.

I wouldn't bet anything on Microsoft getting it right..... at least not enough to depose the iPod.

[777]

Bishbashbosh,

One of the things that Microsoft does have in their corner is the fact that everyone wants to live like the 'Jetsons' cartoon. Microsoft has the influence/leverage to get the world there(look at their partnerships/joint ventures). Apple's not in that league yet, and may never be.

A 777 Subject.

[777]

Funny, as many iPod's that Apple has sold it still has'nt made a major dent in worldwide PC sales. And, especially those for consumers. Apple would have to take over the consumer PC market to get the jump on what Microsoft wants to do with 'Vista'. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Meanwhile let's hope that Microsoft, & their partners are successful in ushering us into the 'Jetsons' age(with High Definition audio, & video).

A 777 Subject.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Bishbashbosh

I wouldn't bet anything on Microsoft getting it right..... at least not enough to depose the iPod.

Did you know that in the personal digital music player, Apple has 70% of the market? I just found that out yesterday. I was shocked that the percentage was so high.

I knew they had the profile. Just not that much market prominence.

[jdunn]

From CNN

Strong iPod sales -
The Apple CEO also announced Tuesday that the company posted $5.7 billion in revenue last quarter, in part based on strong sales of 14 million iPods in the holiday quarter alone. Speaking to the Apple faithful at Macworld, Jobs said Apple sold 32 million iPods for all of 2005, and that Apple's 135 retail stores drew 26 million visitors during the holiday quarter.

"That speaks volumes," said McGuire of Apple's iPod sales figures, noting that people had been wondering whether other competing MP3 makers were making inroads against Apple – which does not seem to be the case.

[khp]

Originally Posted by 777

...Definition audio on the new High Definition DVD discs(potentially 50GB capacity) leaves room for much potential...

Let's see...30GB to run the OS and load the apps...

I'd rather carry a toolbelt with an apple buckle than use an all-in-one MS product.

[Bob Olhsson]

Apple, to their credit, licensed AAC.

Microsoft hired the guy who invented it to create the next generation of lossy coding technology.

We'll see what happens.

[onion]

iPod and iTunes can both store and playback audio files at 16bit/44.1kHz right now, as well as mp3 and AAC. The problem is storage. Anybody, whether Apple, Microsoft, or someone else, will have to provide LOADS of hard disk space before hi-fi audio can gain a foothold in the portable music player market.

[ersheff]

I agree with onion. My own music would be lossless at the very least If I had the hard drive space. Wait, i take that back. I DO have the hard drive space, but I don't have the ipod space, and what good is an ipod if you can't take more than the usual wallet of CDs worth with you?
There is no reason outside of storage space for lossy compression to have ever been created. Part of the problem though is that it IS established, and it sounds good enough (at least at 320kbps AAC, which is what mine is at), so there is little incentive to even increase storage capacities. Only when gigabytes of storage are a dime a dozen by natural technological advances will companies not bother putting lossy compression codecs into their software. Oh, and I guess when the broadband bandwidth is there. Of course, by then we'll probably have to start converting our 32/192 Blu-ray audio discs down to 16/44.1 to fit onto our 12th generation video/cell-phone/toaster oven ipods. And GS posters will still be complaining about how shitty it sounds!
Also, I doubt that Urge using slightly higher fidelity audio will help it win the battle over itunes in the ears of most consumers, but if it does, I'm sure Apple will counter with something similar.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Apple, to their credit, licensed AAC.

Microsoft hired the guy who invented it to create the next generation of lossy coding technology.

We'll see what happens.

=================================================

Well, MS would have to hire a lot more than one person to claim that they hired the team who invented AAC or expanded primitive MP3 into MP4. Let's see---as you know,
that would be the people at Frauenhofer, the old Bell Labs, some 10 heavy duty people from IBM and others. So, NO--they did not hire "the guy" who invented it.

Yes, we sill have to wait and see. . .

[Teddy Gee]

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

Did you know that in the personal digital music player, Apple has 70% of the market? I just found that out yesterday. I was shocked that the percentage was so high.

I knew they had the profile. Just not that much market prominence.

It is equally, or more important in this discussion to note that for the past two years iTunes has been integrated very nicely with PC's. It functions almost as well on my little boys PC running XP Home edition as it does on my G5 2X2.

This would seem to mitigate MS ability to throw them out when they roll Vista out, but....................

70% of the market already owning a piece of not-inexpensive hardware is significant.

Stephen

[Jose Mrochek]

Like mentioned above.. audio quality will be directly proportional by internet conection speed and hard drive space. Consumers WANT the best. ¨the they don´t care for audio quality¨ is nonsense. It´s like saying ¨people don´t want plasma tv´s that´s why they keep buying the oldy CRT models¨

Gazilion mega harddrives are around the corner. and the world is allready wired with fiber optical. It´s just a matter of a few years that prices for those will become accesible to most. And NO ONE will want to know about MP3´s.

It´s also going on with digital cameras (if you ask me), I can´t tell the difference between a 4 megapixel or a 5 megapixel camera.. yet, if I go to best buy I WANT the best resolution my money can buy.

[777]

Jose Mrochek,

I agree with you. Consumers do want the 'best'. Who does'nt want to be able to claim that they have the 'latest greatest'. Not many people that I know.

A 777 Subject.

[6strings]

Will it bring high end/high definition back to the future?

Maybe it will bring Apple to offer a higher bit rate for iTunes music, but I don't think the average consumer will give up their money and hard disk space for the difference. Sadly.

And WTF does MTV have to do with music anyway? They don't play music videos and they aren't a record label. Big flop coming...

dfegad Microsoft

[Darius van H]

I bet this "CD quality" is just marketing speak.........i wouldn't expect 44k 16bit anytime soon......and with mass video on demand just round the corner, bandwidth is still gonna be the main factor.......storing 44k16bit by i-tunes or whoever isn't the issue.

[Teddy Gee]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I bet this "CD quality" is just marketing speak.........i wouldn't expect 44k 16bit anytime soon......and with mass video on demand just round the corner, bandwidth is still gonna be the main factor.......storing 44k16bit by i-tunes or whoever isn't the issue.

The sound of the nail being hit on the head!! Marketing speak/hype/spin/buzz (no offense Tim) is what rules our consumer world!

No offense to 777 or Jose M but IMO your imagining that "the best" where gizmos for the mass-consuming-audience is concerned will ever have anything to do with the highest resolution audi quality are reflective just of your own wishes. Audiophiles and Audio Engineers have always been a (very small) niche market for audio delivery and with the modern emphasis on AUDIO/VIDEO as Darius notes I don't see any reason for this to swing in audio's direction. The average consumer focuses on the visual media and the audio media is "support".................important to the overall effect but.

This whole discussion is one that could only be had in an audiophile, audio engineer environment. Go try and hold the attention of a group of 10 (or even 2!) people who are not professional or audiophiles (shudder) with discussions of the way the snare explodes and breathes with the perfect level of bus compression and how that is just the right reverb for the vocal to make it blend, blah blah........................you will lose them in a hurry! My wife and my son (both devoted music lovers!) are also devoted to their iPods, could not care less about whether they download mp3's or AIFF's though they can do either. When I recently called my wife to "take a listen" to my new Lavry DA-10 converters......I get the usual blank look followed by one of tolerance for my madness in thinking that there is some difference in sound quality between this and anything else she listens to and she is gone as quickly as possible.

I don't have an iPod, don't care what will be competing with it and don't think any of this has any bearing on what we should al strive for in recording.

I know I will regret having gotten further involved in this discussion, but.......

Stephen

[Plush]

Right on!, Stephen