Wunder PAFour or API 3124?

[davey boy]

Looking for a 4 channel pre. First was looking for something that I would mostly use on drums but after more thought it would be nice to have something that would smoke on many sources. The Wunder is more $$ but if it works on, let's say, vocals better then the API and equally well on drums, etc., then maybe it would get more use. I have Neve 1272's, UA 2-120 and grace 101's now it that helps. Thanks for any input.

[natpub]

They are both equally great. They each have their own sound, which are both excellent on many, many sources. Get both.

[davey boy]

Originally Posted by natpub

They are both equally great. They each have their own sound, which are both excellent on many, many sources. Get both.

How does the API compare on vocals vs. the Wunder (from your experience)? Most of my recording is vocals, acoustic and electric guitar to give you an idea so it would be nice to know that it'll get used on more sources. Can't afford both BTH

[scott petito]

the wunder is so good it hurts


cheers

SP

[drummin4christ]

Originally Posted by scott petito

the wunder is so good it hurts


cheers

SP

I would say the same for the API.

[Slaytex]

I just got the 3124 last week and have to say that is has been awesome on everything I've tracked so far. I can't wait to track my drums next week. I have a 28' by 35' by 16 ft celieng room to do my drums in (4 mic tecnique). I already want a second. I need to try the PAFour.

[Wunderkap]

The PAFOUR will unequivically smoke the API on drums. We recently were
asked to bring our mic preamps to Arlyn Recording Studio (now a school too) at 200 Academy Drive, Austin (512) 447-2002. The session was to basically an
A/B test for about 20 people (which was mostly engineers and students)
the Wunder on Drums and bass compaired to their Classic API 32 channel
console which they said has the better vintage transformers than the newer
re-issue API's. The Folks at arlyn were amazed at the kick and snare on the Wunder. The most amazing thing is when we soloed the overhead mic and were able to hear full detail of the tom fills where they were lost when soloed through the API. The bass was actually compaired to an Avalon DI.

PLUS the PAFOUR has a full "line-in" stage with 60dB of gain on all four channels (to handle instrumnet DI) with the Wunder it is actually like having a seperate Mic pre on the line in. You can even run your recorded tracks from DAW to warm up the tracks through the line-in...

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by Wunderkap

The PAFOUR will unequivically smoke the API on drums. We recently were
asked to bring our mic preamps to Arlyn Recording Studio (now a school too) at 200 Academy Drive, Austin (512) 447-2002. The session was to basically an
A/B test for about 20 people (which was mostly engineers and students)
the Wunder on Drums and bass compaired to their Classic API 32 channel
console which they said has the better vintage transformers than the newer
re-issue API's. The Folks at arlyn were amazed at the kick and snare on the Wunder. The most amazing thing is when we soloed the overhead mic and were able to hear full detail of the tom fills where they were lost when soloed through the API. The bass was actually compaired to an Avalon DI.

PLUS the PAFOUR has a full "line-in" stage with 60dB of gain on all four channels (to handle instrumnet DI) with the Wunder it is actually like having a seperate Mic pre on the line in. You can even run your recorded tracks from DAW to warm up the tracks through the line-in...

Are the line ins balanced?

[AB3]

Try the API 3124 with the ATTY 2 attenuator by A Designs. Awesome combo. Brings out more richness in the vocals when you can turn on that gain on the API.
Awesome on drums and great on vocals, etc.
Great with ribbon mics too. I would not spend more on a 4 ch. unit.
AB

[Winey]

I'd go with the Wunders myself.
After a/b'ing them with API's and 1073's, I thought they were much more versatile than the API's.
A very rich sounding preamp design.

[AB3]

Originally Posted by Winey

I'd go with the Wunders myself.
After a/b'ing them with API's and 1073's, I thought they were much more versatile than the API's.
A very rich sounding preamp design.

Did you a/b them with attenuators on the APIs! This can make a big difference.

[davey boy]

As usual, I'm more confused then ever! Was originally into the api idea, thought Wunder might be the better more versatile route now am back on to api. I realize that I won't lose either way. Just wanted the most bang for my hard earned buck. Appreciate all your replies. Even got a few private emails from Mike at Wunder (who told me about the api board shoot out) but I'm sure he's a little biased Would love to hear more real world users of the Wunder unit. Let em rip. Want to get something soon. thanks again slutz.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Wunderkap

The PAFOUR will unequivically smoke the API on drums. We recently were
asked to bring our mic preamps to Arlyn Recording Studio (now a school too) at 200 Academy Drive, Austin (512) 447-2002. The session was to basically an
A/B test for about 20 people (which was mostly engineers and students)
the Wunder on Drums and bass compaired to their Classic API 32 channel
console which they said has the better vintage transformers than the newer
re-issue API's. The Folks at arlyn were amazed at the kick and snare on the Wunder. The most amazing thing is when we soloed the overhead mic and were able to hear full detail of the tom fills where they were lost when soloed through the API. The bass was actually compaired to an Avalon DI.

PLUS the PAFOUR has a full "line-in" stage with 60dB of gain on all four channels (to handle instrumnet DI) with the Wunder it is actually like having a seperate Mic pre on the line in. You can even run your recorded tracks from DAW to warm up the tracks through the line-in...

.....said the designer and seller of the product in question.

Not to fight but I think you have a little at stake here to make such bold statements don't ya think? I have heard great things about your products and I am sure they are just wonderful (get it ), I have never used them myself.

But...

API is an industry standard that I have used and love as do many in the industry. To say that the "PAFOUR will unequivocally smoke the API" (mind you one of the greatest gear designs ever) is something that should be left said by a client not a seller in my humble opinion.



Rock on......

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by davey boy

As usual, I'm more confused then ever! Was originally into the api idea, thought Wunder might be the better more versatile route now am back on to api. I realize that I won't lose either way. Just wanted the most bang for my hard earned buck. Appreciate all your replies. Even got a few private emails from Mike at Wunder (who told me about the api board shoot out) but I'm sure he's a little biased Would love to hear more real world users of the Wunder unit. Let em rip. Want to get something soon. thanks again slutz.

The most bang for the hard earned buck.... You can thank me later.

thumbsup

[AB3]

I am tired of the expressions - this "smokes" that or this "blows it away." Usually the difference between great pres are so subjective.
It is like saying the "Mona Lisa" blows away the "Last Supper." (Some unintended humor in that, I think)

[davey boy]

Originally Posted by Winey

I'd go with the Wunders myself.
After a/b'ing them with API's and 1073's, I thought they were much more versatile than the API's.
A very rich sounding preamp design.

What sources did you use them on?

[indie]

Well if it matters, I chose the wunder peq1's over 1073's and 1084's in a drum session.
In a week or 2, I'll be recording with the PA4...if it sounds the same I'll be happy!
Micah

[dolo]

Originally Posted by AB3

I am tired of the expressions - this "smokes" that or this "blows it away." Usually the difference between great pres are so subjective.
It is like saying the "Mona Lisa" blows away the "Last Supper." (Some unintended humor in that, I think)

most of the time the difference is just individual preference more than anything else. i have the 3124 and looking to try out the wunder stuff for a differnent flavor.

[TML]

Originally Posted by AB3

I am tired of the expressions - this "smokes" that or this "blows it away." Usually the difference between great pres are so subjective.
It is like saying the "Mona Lisa" blows away the "Last Supper." (Some unintended humor in that, I think)

I'm with you...at this level..it's nickels and dimes........track the freakin song...worry about the production/tempo/meter/key...etc....make music.......
Tim

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by TML

I'm with you...at this level..it's nickels and dimes........track the freakin song...worry about the production/tempo/meter/key...etc....make music.......
Tim

Exactly!!! +1 thumbsup

[Wunderkap]

I have always said that asking how somthing sounds is a difficult question. It really can't be put in words. It's like trying to describe how a wine taste. I don't really drink wine but I was trying to buy some wine as a gift and was researching tasting notes and was "blown away" buy how people describe taste. I couldn't relate at all. It's the same with sound. You just got to hear stuff for yourselves. Nothing can relace the listening experience.

Now, I understand about asking what people like to use, but how do you know what they have heard or how comprehensive their A/B comparisons are. For me, I got to hear it and it only takes a minute and you know. Please don't take my word as difinitive. Listen to what you are thinking about getting because it may become a peice of gear you will have for a long time and it will ulitimatly, for better or worse, effect the quality of your recordings.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Wunderkap

I have always said that asking how somthing sounds is a difficult question. It really can't be put in words. It's like trying to describe how a wine taste. I don't really drink wine but I was trying to buy some wine as a gift and was researching tasting notes and was "blown away" buy how people describe taste. I couldn't relate at all. It's the same with sound. You just got to hear stuff for yourselves. Nothing can relace the listening experience.

Now, I understand about asking what people like to use, but how do you know what they have heard or how comprehensive their A/B comparisons are. For me, I got to hear it and it only takes a minute and you know. Please don't take my word as difinitive. Listen to what you are thinking about getting because it may become a peice of gear you will have for a long time and it will ulitimatly, for better or worse, effect the quality of your recordings.

Now that I can agree with!

[dokushoka]

The Wunders sounds pretty damn great...yes...even on drums.

[AdamJay]

now this has more to do with the EQ (PEQ1-1), but i hear it / read it as a testament to the quality of Wunder.

you could say that i "overheard" this story.
ask Mike @ Wunder if its true... as coming from me it is admittedly hear-say. You never know how the "telephone effect" can alter a story. (end disclaimer)


once upon a time,
Rupert A/B'd the peq-1 and the 1073
stayed for 15 minutes.
got a grin on his face.
walked over to Mike and said 'wow',
shook his hand and walked away

now, anything that can make Rupert Neve say 'wow' probably has good potential to 'unequivically smoke the API on drums'. Yea, they are two different sounds and this is referring to a Pre+EQ rather than the 4xPre in question. But you gotta bow to that.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

But you gotta bow to that.

Or not. Again I have no experience with the Wunder stuff but just because Rupert or you or Buddha himself likes the sound does not make it the best thing since sliced bread right? I might just happen to like API's for drums a whole lot and I could hate the Wunder when I hear it. Everyone's tastes are different.

Again not trying to pick a fight but hype is hype, seeing (or hearing in this case) is believing and until I hear it with my own ears Rupert ears don't mean much to me. Sorry.

And just to make sure the point is not missed, I am not dissing the Wunder stuff, it may in fact "unequivocally smoke the API on drums" but just hearing someone say that makes my spidy "hype" sense tingle. Hearing it from the builder himself makes me want to run and put my red spandex on and crawl up the side of a building.

[Winey]

Originally Posted by davey boy

What sources did you use them on?

Standard rock band stuff.
Drums, bass, guitars and vocals.
These were the channel Wunders with eq btw.
Not sure if the 4 channel pre is the same preamp design.
I am partial to the 1073 and the Wunder is like a different flavor of 1073.
Huge bottom end, and very detailed.

[Beauarts]

I kinda wonder how Wunder compare to the Neve 5012 Portico myself. Anyone A/B them?

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Wunderkap

Now, I understand about asking what people like to use, but how do you know what they have heard or how comprehensive their A/B comparisons are. For me, I got to hear it and it only takes a minute and you know.

Hi Wunderkap,

Comprehensive comparisons? I think it's all a matter of taste, and I think for you is also a matter of taste when you mention it only takes a minute.

What you should be looking for is YOUR OWN SOUND, what I believe is the more important task of any Audio Engineer. Wunder Audio pres is not the only thing that'll give you THE sound.

By the way, I think you are biased!

Peace,
Pupo

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Or not. Again I have no experience with the Wunder stuff but just because Rupert or you or Buddha himself likes the sound does not make it the best thing since sliced bread right? I might just happen to like API's for drums a whole lot and I could hate the Wunder when I hear it. Everyone's tastes are different.

Again not trying to pick a fight but hype is hype, seeing (or hearing in this case) is believing and until I hear it with my own ears Rupert ears don't mean much to me. Sorry.

And just to make sure the point is not missed, I am not dissing the Wunder stuff, it may in fact "unequivocally smoke the API on drums" but just hearing someone say that makes my spidy "hype" sense tingle. Hearing it from the builder himself makes me want to run and put my red spandex on and crawl up the side of a building.

fair enough, Michael
its a tale. take it with a grain of salt, but i do hope you get to hear either the pafour or the peq-1/peq-1r some day. whether you end up liking it or hating it, its good to hear new flavours.

[dokushoka]

What you should be looking for is YOUR OWN SOUND, what I believe is the more important task of any Audio Engineer.

Man. Looks like I better re-evaluate myself as an audio engineer since I'm always looking for the ARTIST'S OWN SOUND.