Wunder PAFour or API 3124?

[alnico]

I have limited experience with the API. I used it on toms and guitar on a session not long ago. It was nice. I own a PEQ1R and PA4. I loaned them out to a friend for awhile who wants to purchase Wunder gear now. I can honestly say that there are multiple instances of potential clients visiting my studio where during listening sessions I'm asked, "That snare sounds awesome" or, "That vocal sounds amazing" and "How did you get that bass sound?". They were all cut with Wunder pre's. There is something unique about these preamps that is irresistible to me. I have Chandler and A Designs gear also and the Wunder stuff is right there with them. Find out for yourself

[dokushoka]

Last weekend a friend of mine from San Francisco came out and wanted to shoot out a preamp he just built against some of our stuff. The candidates were:

Amek "Green" clone
Wunder PEQR-1
Orignal Neve 1073 (courtesy of Vertigo Recording Services)

We tracked a Martin through a DPA 4006 to a Studer A827 running GP9 at 30ips, no Dolby. Monitoring at our place is very nice and trustworthy.

The Green clone held up well. It was fast and detailed. Not bad, just a little boring.

The 1073 was probably the least liked of the bunch. The lower mids were murky and the top lacking.

The Wunder was the clear favorite amongst all three of us. It had all the good vibe of the 1073 but was just clearer, more 3d and "hi-fi."

We all agreed that the Wunder cold smoked the 1073 to the point that it made the Neve sound almost bad. This is obviously a HUGE endorsement, but I fully stand behind it.

[fucanay]

I would be said friend from San Francisco and Holy Shit those wunders are amazing.

While I was impressed with the green pre that I built, it was nowhere near as nice as the wunders. It had similar mids, but that's where it ends. The 1073 wasn't boring, but wasn't even close to the Wunders either. If I had to describe the wunders in one word it would be "alive". The 1073s "murky". And the Greens "Damned good deal" (ok, that was 3 words).

I am a believer in the Wunders. My home studio can't justify the cost, but if I hit the Lottery, I'll be buying a bunch and scraping everything else.

matt

[robmix]

Originally Posted by alnico

I can honestly say that there are multiple instances of potential clients visiting my studio where during listening sessions I'm asked, "That snare sounds awesome" or, "That vocal sounds amazing" and "How did you get that bass sound?".

I have the same experience at my studio. The Wunders are awesome. It's hard to resist a sidecar !!!!!!

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by max cooper

Can someone quantify "smoke"?

Is that "A-weighted smoke" or perhaps in Celsius?



I think it's ok for pimps and mfgr's to be excited about their gear. Obviously he expects us to factor his involvement with the product into the equation.

[IMG]******//www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9804/02/teens.smoking/link.joe.camel.lg.jpg[/IMG]

[scott petito]

I like that side car idea.... this is ther first time I've ever toyed with the idea of selling my gml's and Neves to get more wunder modules.....

cheers
SP

[pretogear]

Hello everyone, first time!

It has been fun to read all the posts for the last 2 years.

I have both PAFOUR and 4x 512c in my studio at the moment for test. The PAFOUR came new out of the box with ch #2 dead.... but anyway, I recorded 2 sessions with both and here is what I think:

- The api is dryer, punchier, more focused and takes just the right space on the mix. Really easy to mix. Sounded better on drums, gt and DI bass. I could have a bunch of them around and will buy 2 more as soon as I have the $.

- The PAFOUR is bigger sounding, deep bass. Great results on piano (with a B&0 st ribbon) and vocals (U47 fet). Takes too much space if you have a busy mix to deal with.

Both are great, different and complement each other very well.
Saying that one smokes the other is like saying that Dom perignon is better than Chateaux Laffite.

Good tunes to everyone

[Dzoing]

Interesting. Thank you for your 1st post, welcome in Hell!

What kind of piano sound were you after while testing the PA4: some rock&roll piano, or more classical/jazz acoustical? Was it a grand or an upright? Was it natural sounding through the PA4, or colored?

[pretogear]

salu,

I was recording a upright yamaha UX2 and it was a jazz session.
It doesn´t sound coloured to me. The PAFour sounds fairly neutral/natural to my ears (at least compared with api, chandler, ampex or neve). Sounds a bit more modern to me (whatever that means...).
But the api...they sound just right on alot of things. They sound so upfront, focused and clear. Loved them! But not as open as the Pafour.

joão
www.meifumado.org

[GYang]

I was very carefull in making choice of preamps during many months. API, NEVE, Funkens - naturally everything started with that, it was relatively easy to find good ones and try, later to buy several of them.
As I mentioned several times on GS, to my (honest) ears, Wunder was definitely preferred choice over various (old, re-issue and new DPA) 1073, as well as APIs, although not as much to 'smoke' them.
After initial 'wow', as well as, after listening many final mixes, Wunder just made Neve's pres (as well as APIs) in my studio pretty jobless (well sold at good price point, this is what a good name is really worth for).
For other flavors I keep several other pres.
I do music based entirely on personal preference and don't buy any advice if it 100% doesn't correspond with my own experience.
My very humble final conclusion related to original thread question:
I will choose in 95-100% of cases Wunder PAF over API 3124 and Wunder PEQ1 over any API or NEVE. Actually it's easier to do it now, as both API or NEVE don't reside in my tracking room anymore.

[skygod]

Originally Posted by GYang

I was very carefull in making choice of preamps ... My very humble final conclusion related to original thread question: I will choose in 95-100% of cases Wunder PAF over API 3124 and Wunder PEQ1 over any API or NEVE. Actually it's easier to do it now, as both API or NEVE don't reside in my tracking room anymore.

I have to concur with GYang on the last sentence. I originally replied to this but the post did not take and an assitant corrected me. I thought we got rid of all the 3124+s and it seems that theres still one ot two in use for latin percussion exclusively. Otherwise, I don't use them anymore personally, even though the crew still does live and studio. At the price point it is very good too.

Many choces out there these days from the four main schools and their offshoots (Neve, API, Super-8 and Helios) - and the specialty preamps (Vipre, ADL 600, Manley Voxbox/Slam, Liquid etc) stuff budget and genre being recorded will dictate choices.

The PAFOUR is huge for rock. The tranny is huge and that is why it overpowers the API stuff. I am talking about full rack versus lunchbox stuff anyway. The two actually blend well together on diff perc instruments.

***REMEMBER*** API lunchbox standard min-modules are at 18Volts on the rails vs 28 Volts on full rack same-alikes (if the MFG does in fact MFG such) like the 3124+ and 3124M. I personally always opt for the full rack versions unless these are not MFG'd.

A contributor above mentioned he is happy with his 1272s for everything? Dude check out the OSA MP1s (4 models) as well as the Buzz preamp. These will give Wunder a and Brent Averill stuff a run for their money as well. The Wunder PAFOUR is a non-eq preamp vs the PEQ1, and I don't use the latter because I rearely track with eq unless I am using Helios modules, or tracking diretly thru my MIDAS mixers.

So what's the good news about the 3124+. It rocks, but is a diff creature than the PAFOUR that is a gorilla compared. Some here will argue with me about this and that is your choice if you track everything on PAFOUR, but my inclination is that you can't use a PAFOUR on everything as you cannot use a 3124+ on everything. I dont. Each to his/her own g'luck! Good for rock, good for percussion instr and low freq instr, but horrible on chamber/classical/ orchestral etc. See Millenia HV3 or A Designs Pacifica and the likes for that.

Remember if you care about your mixes, and if you use overpowering preamps on everything at the source, you will have problems at separation in the mix later. Something has to give somewhere.

My 2 cents-

~skygod~

[Solunaris]

Just used the PAFour for kick in and out and snare top and bottom.
I liiiiike.