Riding vocal In DAW.....

[PrivateZoo]

During Mixing...would you

ride the vocal all the way and let the compressor do all the work.

or,

would u gain change (+/-) the vocal in segment of phrases.... instead of a really big dynamic range between the verse and the chorus..the volume of the vocal tracks would even out, and the compressor would have to do lesser work.....of course would still ride the vocal.....but after the gain changes....the vocal fader riding would be in a much lesser (+/-) range.


Pro s n Con s?

[dokushoka]

Automate, automate, then automate. Seriously. I track with a comp to get some vibe up front and get things in the ball park. I like an 1176 for this. Then I painstankingly automate the vocal. Breath by breath. I want to make the singer sound like a ****ing star, so I use the automation to bring out all the good stuff that I can. I automate almost every aspect of the vocal (volume, reverb, delay, eq, etc.) I like to run the automated vocal into a 2254e cause it really helps smooth it out and give it more of sense of "pushing air" or "weight."

[The Milkman]

What he said! ^^^

I ride it and compress rather than bring sections up and down. A little light compression with a focusrite red 3 before the converters whilst tracking, then ride it to bits like dokushoka suggested. Reverbs and delays especially...

I'm not sure about pro's and cons but I've heard it said that the automation is less 'crunchy' on the audio than a destructive edit (i.e. gain change) although I'm not sure I believe that as I've never heard a difference myself.

There's a lot to be said for analogue compression over a plug-in though - nice to get a bit of that a-flavour in there at some point. Like dokushoka and the pre-amp, I often run my automated vocal back out through an analogue compressor and eq at mixdown.

[John Suitcase]

I am a little more conservative, I compress a couple dbs during tracking, then I'll boost/cut gain on sections, or even phrases. I do, though like to leave some dynamics in there. Then I compress that during mixdown, and sometimes will send all of the vocals to a group channel, which I compress a little more, to make the lead and backing vocals blend nicely.

I find that using light compression at each stage 'masks' the compressor, and makes any pumping or breathing less obvious...

[copperx]

Could some automation veterans please give some tips on vocal automation?

what is a safe range for a change? 3db?

How do you automate without making the volume change obvious? slow rise has no impact, fast rise makes the riding obvious. What do you do?

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by copperx

Could some automation veterans please give some tips on vocal automation?

what is a safe range for a change? 3db?

How do you automate without making the volume change obvious? slow rise has no impact, fast rise makes the riding obvious. What do you do?

I don't think there are any real tips or "safe" things to do. Its really one of those "try and see" things that you just have to develop a system for.

[max cooper]

I generally use a compressor to impart a sound; and then I automate to get the track to sit correctly in the mix.

Remember, you can automate things like compression ratio, threshold, etc. as well as EQ band(s), reverb time and level (I use this a lot!)

Don't be afraid to try anything.

I even like varying the reverb return width.

PSP Nitro has an envelope dependent independent right/left panner which I sometimes put after the reverb plugin so that depending on the level, the width of the reverb changes.

This stuff may sound a little off topic, but just a reminder that there are ways other than level to change the apparent loudness of a track.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by copperx

Could some automation veterans please give some tips on vocal automation?

what is a safe range for a change? 3db?

How do you automate without making the volume change obvious? slow rise has no impact, fast rise makes the riding obvious. What do you do?

as a heavily decorated automation vet i solemnly testify that "safe" is not a desirable goal in art. push the vocal hard when it needs it; sometimes .3db is enough, sometimes a phrase needs 6db on the first word and 2db on the rest.

what you think is "obvious" is in all likelihood "not at all obvious", it just seems that way because a) your attention is hyperfocused on one element, and b) we have become accustomed to compressed mixes of compressed elements where things stay very rigidly within the confines of the aforementioned safe zone.

listen to music from the 60's and 70's. some zep, or doors, or motown, or whatever floats your boat. you will hear instruments and voices popping way the hell out of the speakers in ways that would make modern producers quake with fear and modern mixers reach for the fader or threshold knob.

so be bold if you dare, push the vocal out further than you feel is safe. a good test is to ask the singer if they like the level. if they do, keep pushing it... ironically, most singers (ime) are afraid to have their stuff out in front. let their fear be your compass.

if you make your changes obvious, then step away from the song overnight, then come back and listen without the lcd on, you will have a very hard time hearing all the moves you thought no one could ignore.


gregoire
del ubik

[picksail]

I do both.

I use a compressor(s) to shape the envelope and thus create a tone/timbre for the vocal. I then ride the vocal to work dynamically within the song. This is when the mixer should be able to emote and react to the music.

[djui5]

Originally Posted by picksail

I do both.

I use a compressor(s) to shape the envelope and thus create a tone/timbre for the vocal. I then ride the vocal to work dynamically within the song. This is when the mixer should be able to emote and react to the music.

[picksail]

Randy,

Where's my damned invitation?

Hop the train and come visit us during NAMM.

You rock!!!!

[djui5]

U didn't get it yet? WTF.

I'll beat her tomorrow....


I'm not sure I'll be able to make it to NAMM. I'm a bit busy with this room, and with the wedding monies are pretty tight.

I'm trying like hell to make it happen though, I promise.


You rock harder

[copperx]

Originally Posted by u b i k

so be bold if you dare, push the vocal out further than you feel is safe. a good test is to ask the singer if they like the level. if they do, keep pushing it... ironically, most singers (ime) are afraid to have their stuff out in front. let their fear be your compass.

Just after reading this I went and pulled up a mix I've been working on and started automating the vocal where it "felt" right. Wow, it really makes the singer look like a star ...

Thank you all for this enlightenment ...

[picksail]

This more closely resembles performing on a musical instrument for a mixer. Very much like an improvisation.


Treat those faders as your instrument and go for it!!!!

[PRobb]

Originally Posted by picksail

This more closely resembles performing on a musical instrument for a mixer. Very much like an improvisation.


Treat those faders as your instrument and go for it!!!!

Absolutely. It's a "feel" thing that takes practice. And this is one place where an external fader pack is essential. I've never been able to close my eyes and "feel it" with a mouse.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by PRobb

Absolutely. It's a "feel" thing that takes practice. And this is one place where an external fader pack is essential. I've never been able to close my eyes and "feel it" with a mouse.

I can do it with a mouse, but it's much better with a tactile piece of gear. We have a Control 24 and I've recently rediscovered what I enjoy about those faders.