A question to Wagener about micing the bottom of toms

[blackcom]

Hi!

I've seen pictures and read every now and then that you like to mic both top and bottom of your toms for moore resonance. I just wondered how you mix this...

Do you mix both mics with same or different levels/eq? Do you tune beater and bottom heads the same or the bottom a little higher?

merry x-mas, btw

[mwagener]

Yes I like to mic the top and bottom of toms. The bottom head is usually tuned different from the top head, depending on which effect I want to achieve but mostly slightly lower than the top. The bottom mic is of course polarity reversed. Once I have a good place for the top mic, I have my assistant move the bottom mic slowly to and from the head until the bottom end (tone) sounds nice and fat. The two mics get mixed together onto one track and normally the bottom mic is at about 75% of the top mic. The reversed polarity has the added effect of keeping some of the other drums out of that track.

[blackcom]

Awsome, thank you very much!

So, you mix them into one track....wich means same EQ settings, right?

I guess 75% of the top mic would mean someting like bottom mic -3 db or something, at least as a starting point?

...now, the bottom head lower in pitch, that's intresting!! Allways had them a tad higher for moore attack or same exact pitch.....

hope i'm not asking too many questions here....., but do you ever compress your toms individually or as a subgroup?

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by blackcom

Awsome, thank you very much!

So, you mix them into one track....wich means same EQ settings, right?

I dpn't use EQ on toms unless I absolutely have to. I might add some 4 K in the mix if neccessary.

Originally Posted by blackcom

I guess 75% of the top mic would mean someting like bottom mic -3 db or something, at least as a starting point?

It will vary from case to case, but the bottom mic fader is mostly about 3/4 the way up from the top mic fader. It totally depends on the size of the tome etc.

Originally Posted by blackcom

...now, the bottom head lower in pitch, that's intresting!! Allways had them a tad higher for moore attack or same exact pitch.....

It seems the lower bottom head (not by much lower) gets a deeper, fatter tone out of the tom. When I tune it to the same pitch it seems to ring forever. Fletcher did an amazing job tuning the drums for the King's X workshop sessions, maybe he can chime in here.

Originally Posted by blackcom

hope i'm not asking too many questions here....., but do you ever compress your toms individually or as a subgroup?

No, questions are a good thing. Have to disappoint you here again though, no compression unless absolutely needed. I ride the fader for the tom tracks during the mix to keep the riff-raff out a bit. Well, let me rephrase that, I do parallel compression for the whole kit (Kick, Snare and Toms) via the Spider and the Chandler TG-1. The room mic and the omni mic (in the center of the kit) get the RidgeFarm Boiler compressor (on stunn), the closest thing I've heard to the SSL listen comp.

[blackcom]

Originally Posted by mwagener

It seems the lower bottom head (not by much lower) gets a deeper, fatter tone out of the tom. When I tune it to the same pitch it seems to ring forever. Fletcher did an amazing job tuning the drums for the King's X workshop sessions, maybe he can chime in here.

So, a bit lower....like a semi-tone, tone, minor third?

This will be very cool trying out on next project

[van Overhalen]

Shouldn`t it read "a question to Mr. Wagener" or something like that ?
Since Michael Wagener is the real name and no nick, it would just be polite to say Mr.?

No offense, just asking...

[Fletcher]

Heir Wagener is too kind... I just did the bottom heads so they dropped like a 4th... "bah-oom" was the vowel sound I was going for [the "oom" about a 4th lower than the "bah"]. Fresh heads, a great kit, an excellent room and a serious motherfukker drummer didn't hurt our chances of getting some useable sounds from the instrument.

I remember we used pretty heavy heads on the tom bottoms on that gig, white coated Remo "Ambassadors" on the tops... an Evans "Hydrolic" (sp?) on the bottom of the floor tom and black dots on the bottom of the racks [I think there were two... but there has been many gallons of alcohol consumed between then and now and unlike Michael, I don't remember every session I ever did... hell, I barely remember the gig I was on last night except that the tutonic lack of groove the song possessed was cured by a couple out of time delays and some general ****about with the bass timing... but I digress].

[blackcom]

Mr. Wagner and Mr. Fletcher, thank you so much for pushing me in the right direction!

I hope you both will have a great New Years Eve!

Best wishes from me...

[van Overhalen]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Heir Wagener is too kind... .

Hair ?