Two-beep..where do I put it?

[Abbey Normal]

I need some advice on where to drop a "two beep" for a score I'm working on.I'm working on PT LE (no dv toolkit). Will the sound editor be able to sync if I give him a location in samples not frames? Any help would be much appreciated!!!

[rickrock305]

i believe its supposed to be exactly two seconds before the start of audio. The beeps should be two seconds apart, with audio starting a second after the last beep.

I could be wrong about this though, so don't quote me!!!!

[SiliconAudioLab]

This one.

Exactly 1 frame of pop 1 sec in between (exactly) and a second 1 frame (exactly) pop.

It's 24 bit. The graphics facility needs to send you the graphic visualized as above (say in 30 FPS) in graphic form. 1 frame of say a target bullseye and 1 second (30 frames) of black then the second target bullseye (exactly 1 frame in length.

You then take the one frame beep (I'll upload thst if you need it) and manually place in your software say Logic or PT zoomed all the way in.

If there's drift from jugheads at the graphics facility (& there usually is) it'll rear it's ugly head fast.

[Abbey Normal]

That definitely clears things up a bit-Can you up-load the beep for me?---thanx

[SiliconAudioLab]

It's here ******//gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=53451

At the end of the thread.

[SiliconAudioLab]

Just posted a movie with audio on my site.

Go to: ******//www.SiliconAudioLabs.com/medi...phSMPTEPop.mov

The second audio beep comes before the second graphic target. It's intentional to show how even a slight frame change will be exposed early on.

The movie was once 29.97 then pulled up to 30.

The audio bursts are 1 frame exactly accurate in length and I have them as just an individual sample if you want to use them properly.

You COULD just pull the whole movie into Peak. Then you'll be able to just cut the bursts (both the audio and the graphic target) for you own use.

[Bob Olhsson]

It belongs right at the beginning of 00:59:58:00 to the sample.

It Should be exactly one frame (2000 samples at 48kHz) long, 1kHz. at -20.

Here's a stereo 2-pop:

[Abbey Normal]

Thanks for the help-the only thing is my PT can not read time code (no dv toolkit)-can I do this using samples instead of frames?....meaning can I drop a beep and note what sample it falls on--and give my file with the exact location of the beep to the sound editor so he can line it up in session?---sorry if I sound like a novice.....I'm new to the film side of recording!

[SiliconAudioLab]

Bobs pop will work as well. I've enclosed a 24 bit Stereo 44.1 (single frame) pop.

Here's the easiest way to handle this:

Ask your graphic guys what the movie FPS is. Your software will have this setting somewhere - set it at the frame rate of their movie.

Tell them to make a one frame target graphic and place it at the beginning of the movie and to place another single frame target exactly 30 frames later (or 1 sec @30fps).

What they put before or after these graphic targets makes no difference. YOU don't have to count frames OR samples. It's purely a visual thing. The reason is - sometimes different people will send 29.97/29.97drop/30 etc.. Usually because they're not paying attention to the movie they're making for you. YOU will be able to tell right away if something is slippery. Even if there's no time - visually sliding the audio pops will make sure what you've aligned is what they will later align.

Once you have their complete movie (& they NEVER seem to be able to complete them), place a single audio pop (Bob's, if working at 48K or mine if working at 44.1K) at their first graphic target and place a second audio pop at their second graphic target.

You must be zoomed in all the way and you must drag these audio pops to line up exactly. This way your audio will have subframe accuracy.

Start creating your music/sfx (whatever) with these beeps and then also mix everything with them at the beginning.

One final tip; once you've mixed down the "pre-master" that you want to send them, be sure to snip all the audio dead air right down to the last sample right BEFORE the start of the first pop. Reason is sometimes the graphics guys don't use Final Cut and can't move the audio with sub frame accuracy.

PM me - you can call if you need further help. I do this all day long.

[Bob Olhsson]

Just use minutes and seconds.

[Berolzheimer]

If it's for film the 2 pop should be at 6 seconds (9 feet) after the start of the hour, IE 01:00:06:00 with the first frame of picture being at 8 seconds (12 feet).
For video it's usually like Bob said, with the pop at negative 2 seconds (IE 00:59:58:00) and the first frame if picture at the start of the hour. Tha main thing is that you coordinate with whoever you're delivering too, ask them for their tech requirements.

[kkfaudio]

As Berolzheimer said quickly, and it wasn't mentioned before, the 2-beep is 2 seconds before 1st frame of picture whether or not your audio starts at 1st frame of picture or not. ie, you could have 2 seconds of silence, or 2 minutes of silence between the beep and audio.

Like Bob said, just use minutes & seconds for timing.

DV Toolkit isn't cheap, but if you end up doing a lot of video work, it does make life easier - I bit the bullet after a while myself...

Hope that helps.
Kevin

[Abbey Normal]

Thanx everyone for being so helpful-I do plan on getting the DV toolkit soon-PEACE!

[SiliconAudioLab]

Originally Posted by Abbey Normal

Thanx everyone for being so helpful-I do plan on getting the DV toolkit soon-PEACE!

Why? Are you planning on doing the graphic or film work? Just have them place the graphic targets any damned place you want.

Generally it's been my experience (especially w/ CG houses) that their eyes glaze over when you talk feet (or EVEN frames sometimes).

All they need to do is to place those two single frame targets in your movie (or QT etc...) and then you align your audio pops to that, leave audio pops in when you send your finished product to them.

Remember to trim your dead air samples right to the start of the first sample of the first beep on your final so they can drop the audio in Premier, Final Cut etc... in a frame by frame manner and things will line-up nicely.

Best of luck. Offer still stands; PM me and I'll help you out over the phone.