5 k to burn

[andrea19837]

hi, i have to spend 5K in my studio.

the big boy that I already have. are a akg 414, and daking mic pre/eq, soundcraft 8000 desk. and some small thing like dbx 163, alesis microlimiter, lexicon lxp.

my buy list is:

-neumann u87
-gml 2032
-distressor

and i have spent 5k.

it's a private producer studio.

Do you change something in my list, the first call is to make a Vox ready for major label.

andrew.

[RMJAZZ]

You would be fine with that set up, but let me interject some opinion here;

My personal taste leads me away from the U87 for most things though.....You should see if you can try out a few mics in the same price range. Look at Brauner Phantom, and the ADK Custom Shop J mod stuff......I used the ADk CS67-J on sax/vocal/piano and it was incredible on all of them.

For pre amps I would check out the Audio Upgrades pre, and if you only need one channel, try and get into the Gordon Model 4.

Good Luck,
Rob

[la grange]

Agreed about the U87. I wouldn't go there if you only a 414 in your locker.
Maybe go towards valve mic like 2247LE or AK47.
same for the pre, try the LA610 SE.
Keep the rest for high end XLR, a good mic stand, some plugins maybe...

best of luck


Oli

[Slikjmuzik]

I say AR-51, definitely some plug-ins unless you're already in the collection phase of outboard mixing tools, but it doesn't seem that way. How's your conversion? How's your acoustic treatment? How are your monitors?

[Tony Shepperd]

What style of music do you record the most?
Personally I'd rather have a great pre, than a great mic.
A great pre can turn an average mic into something useful.
A great mic going into an average pre... still makes your sound average.

[12ax7]

.
Something to consider:

Do you care more about the ability of the gear, or that the client sees "tried and true" stuff in your studio?

This would change EVERYTHING about your decisions!
.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

.
Something to consider:

Do you care more about the ability of the gear, or that the client sees "tried and true" stuff in your studio?

This would change EVERYTHING about your decisions!
.

Good point, I agree...I've tried to maintain a combination of the 2.

[JCRockit]

Actually if you are already fairly high end for tracking why dont you think
2 buss for your flaming 5 grand. After all everything gets processed through it so its a nice bang for the buck. My 2 sense .

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by andrea19837

hi, i have to spend 5K in my studio.

the big boy that I already have. are a akg 414, and daking mic pre/eq, soundcraft 8000 desk. and some small thing like dbx 163, alesis microlimiter, lexicon lxp.

my buy list is:

-neumann u87
-gml 2032
-distressor

and i have spent 5k.

it's a private producer studio.

Do you change something in my list, the first call is to make a Vox ready for major label.

andrew.

I think this is a great choice. Bashing on the U87 seems something cool to do but it's a great mic and definitely goes well with the vast majority of voices, plus on some vocals it's just unbeatable.
The GML it's also a great choice, everyone goes for the usual suspect when the vocal chain is involved so Neve/Api, but GML is one of the best choices imho (on my to buy list since the day I've tried it), lotsa clean gain, plenty of headroom and despite people tend to describe GML as "transparent" well, yes is not as colored as an Api or a Chandler, but indeed it imparts its imprint, and I find the GML vibe to be that "big, expensive production" kind of sound.

Pair that with the Distressor and you have perfect dynamic control, versatility with the opto/La-ish behavior and the fet/1176 behavior, plus great control over the harmonics/color

Don't change anything!thumbsup

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by andrea19837

Do you change something in my list, the first call is to make a Vox ready for major label.

andrew.

Get a nice tube comp and call it a day.

[Larry Villella]

I would respectfully disagree with the comment that
the pre-amp is more essential than the microphone.

Like the lens of a camera, the mic is has the job
of capturing the mechanical (sound-wave) and
morphing it into the electrical. Sonic Content that
is not captured by the microphone is lost forever!

A great mic and a good pre-amp would be my vote.

And U-87 bashing isn't without some merit -
especially for vocal applications. I used my
first U-87 in 1971 to record live jazz sessions.

In retrospect - and especially for the digital medium -
the better choice for reeds and vox is surely a U-67
or U-47. At least that's my perspective on this. . . .

Cheers!

Larry V / ADK)))

[12ax7]

.
If you like what the U87 does for ya, but don't wanna drop that much cash, give this one a look:

Listen to the NT1a mod

Here's a whole GS thread about it:

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/low-e...one-tried.html

.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

.
If you like what the U87 does for ya, but don't wanna drop that much cash, give this one a look:

Listen to the NT1a mod

Here's a whole GS thread about it:

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/low-e...one-tried.html

.

Wholeheartedly!!! These things rock!! But, IMO, NT1A's are ugly, get a Studio Projects C1 and send that to Mr. Joly.

[vernier]

I'd search for some decent monitors.

[Dean Roddey]

Hmmm... "5K to Burn" would be a good band name. Maybe a better studio name, I dunno, "5K to Burn Productions" or something like that, though customers might miscontrue the meaning.

[yotonic]

I like the Daking mic pre for male vocals I think you are set there. However I would recommend something like the Chandler Germanium compressor over the Distressor. It will color the vocals less especially with the wet/dry knob. If you want to add a little attitude there is also a "dirty comp" switch. I use the Chandler in parallel with a Jim Williams mod aphex compressor and it's great for tracking vocals without a compressor footprint all over everything.

But the biggest upgrade I made to my vocal chain was a Custom mic dialed in specifically for my voice. I went through Pearlman, Wunder, Neumann 87 all great mics but none were the right fit. I heard a shootout on here for a Custom Shop 67 from ADK against a Wunder CM7GT and ordered one. It was a great mic but it too didn't "hit" my voice right. Well the owner of ADK sent me something like 10 mics over the next month ( I don't know how he made any money) and started swapping out transformers, capsules, tubes, everything. After a very detailed process I wound up falling in love with an ADK Custom Shop C12 with a Sowter transformer. The only one they have made so far - it's awesome. I couldn't believe what a difference transformers make on the sound and sonic footprint of a mic and ADK built me mics with everything from a Lundahl (gorgeous sound) to Jensen, Cinemag, Sowter. I never in a million years would have stumbled into this mic configuration without those guys sending me so many custom shop variations. I paid for one mic and they sent me up to three mics at a time. Really trusting, stand up guys.

[Knastratt]

If I had to start over I'd go for a Brauner Valvet (or Phantom), a GAP Pre73 and a GAP Compressor (coming soon). For very little money! Definitely up there with my Rupert Neve (Quality-wise - not sound-wise. That damn AMEK CIB is just "oomphy" and, ahem, "silky" at the same time).

Your gas may differ - Pär

[andrea19837]

hey thank to everyone, very good response Here.

i most do Pop/rock Pop/dance productions.

room acoustic is quite good, a lot of bass trap, some diffuser, some acoustic pannels, and two helmotz trap(at nasty 56hz) all DiY.

as monitor i have ns10, pmc tb2s, and small PC speaker.

i know there are better Mic than u87, but i have to record a lot of different vox, male and female (about 20 singer at year) and if the mic is neumann i can trust it, also someone that came, feel safetly with see a u87. I have to decide if go with u87Ai, or old one U87. i like modern type of vocal and akg 414 isn't the call..IMHO.

for compressor, i have pick distressor, for it's versatility, but chandler can be the right tool..i have to test side by side. i can even think about a purple mc77 or UA 1176. but maybe it's less usefull as only "big" compressor.

Gml, I fall in love with it. (AND also the small eq section of 8200) the only thing is internal PSU. but i think GML know how to make it..i hope.

IF i try to buy that stuff used, i can even think to add an API 5500, like tracking eq, mix, buss, mastering. i have used one in a mastering room, and fall in love again.

maybe a bit more of 5K, but i have to make my business.

andrew.

[Vum]

I would also look at your headphone monitoring system as a source of upgrade as well. Since you're mainly tracking vocalists, it would make sense to cater to what makes them perform a great take.

[pulse_divider]

FWIW, I sold off 4 or 5 other LDCs once I got my u87 (late 60s vintage). All the others (Soundelux U95, Peluso 2251, CAD VX2, couple of others that I forget right now) were really nice mics but they were less consistent... i.e. they'd be great on one singer, then not-so-great on another. I have yet to find a singer that the U87 doesn't sound great with.
If I had to pick one sub-$3K mic to use on everything I'd use an LDC on, especially vocals, it would be the U87. I can't comment on the difference between the old and new ones, but the old one I have is amazing.

[superama]

Originally Posted by pulse_divider

FWIW, I sold off 4 or 5 other LDCs once I got my u87 (late 60s vintage). All the others (Soundelux U95, Peluso 2251, CAD VX2, couple of others that I forget right now) were really nice mics but they were less consistent... i.e. they'd be great on one singer, then not-so-great on another. I have yet to find a singer that the U87 doesn't sound great with.
If I had to pick one sub-$3K mic to use on everything I'd use an LDC on, especially vocals, it would be the U87. I can't comment on the difference between the old and new ones, but the old one I have is amazing.

I love this advice. U87 is not the best mike, But it's very close to a "best mike overall" for it's price. I feel like the U87 is the entry-level "good enough" mike. Learn to use this one at which point some other flavors might be useful down the road. There are too many gearslingers here trying to convince us that we need every flavor of crap mike. Just one that's good enough is all you really need.

[Seb RIOU]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

What style of music do you record the most?
Personally I'd rather have a great pre, than a great mic.
A great pre can turn an average mic into something useful.
A great mic going into an average pre... still makes your sound average.

?????

[Larry Villella]

If YOU were the producer for a new vocalist, and
walked in with him or her to the best studio in town. . .


Lets say Blackbird in Nashville or Ocean Way in LA, You name it in NY, BBC London.


With a Big Mic Locker to pick from. . . .


Would you pick a U-87 for your rising star's Lead Vocals?

Against Museum-Piece TELE's and Mint U-67/47 ?


Truth Is - Tubes Rule on Vox! (Isn’t this axiomatic?)


And indeed, there are at least 20 Valve Mics around $2000 that

sound close enough to a Classic Condenser, Nobody Cares ! ! !


Pearlman, Lawson, Telefunken, and Yes - ADK Custom Shop.


In a sensible project studio - One Austrian Flavor (C-12, 251)
And One German Flavor (U-67, U-47) - will give you coverage.


WHATEVER THE BRAND !!!


Audio Practitioners enjoy more Craftsman-Style Valve-mic Options than ever!


I AGREE - U-87 are a great Utility All-Rounder for Instrument Mics and Voice-Overs.

In those two areas, these mics are great. For reeds and lead vox? Not for me.

Yet if you truly believe the U-87 is the holy grail over its venerable forefather mics, I say peace brother!!!


If you're starting out a mic locker - be sure to kiss enough frogs to know which mics are right for you!


First-Hand Knowledge is the Ultimate Power!



"Think with Your Ears"




Larry V / ADK)))

[sfoote]

Originally Posted by vernier

I'd search for some decent monitors.

I agree. I'm on this hunt now, and my opinion of gear changes more with better monitors.

Mixing board is the other thing that really lets my existing gear come through. Or not, as I discovered in some cases.

[emptyman]

U87 through the Daking Mic Pre/EQ sounds pro to me. I'd suggest an SM7B when the U87 doesn't cut it - it really shines with the Daking EQ.

Have you got top-notch conversion?

Todd Hunter Band - melodic indie pop-rock from Winnipeg. - Home

[4blades]

Originally Posted by Larry Villella

A great mic and a good pre-amp would be my vote.

Agree.

... also U87, it's a quality and versatile mic in that price range.
I had it with daking mic pre eq, pacifica, electrodyne 501, then I ended up with the Qes labs Preq-1, which was the warmest.

With a tube mic loved the millennia and the gml.

[Magic Alex]

Originally Posted by Larry Villella

I would respectfully disagree with the comment that
the pre-amp is more essential than the microphone.

Larry V / ADK)))

...and I would agree. I'm not going to say that a Toys'R'Us "Rockit" mic into a 1073 is a good idea, but I look at the option this way...

A) an SM57 into a Millenium
or
B) a U47 into a Beringer pre

I'd choose A. But it's personal choice. Everyone has different logic.

[YRLK]

I haven't heard the GML, but in my opinion, for what that thing does, it's way overpriced.

If I was going for a vocal anything, I'd probably either concentrate on swapping out the GML for an LA2A or CL1B (and just use your Daking) and/or upgrading the mic to something like a Korby with a 67 (because it's warmer than the U87 I had). The Distressor, in my mind, while incredibly versatile, is not the most go-to vocal standard compressor.

So if I had 5k and had what you already have and was really trying to concentrate on getting a great vocal sound, here's exactly what I would do based on much experience and trial and error:

My goal would be to get one versatile, trustworthy vocal mic and also acquire at least ONE tube item in the chain.

Option 1:

I'd get a Korby Blue or Korby KAT67 setup and a UA 2-1176 (because they're affordable used and sound classic on vocals... plus, you'd have another channel), OR if you want another channel/sound for the mic, I'd pickup an Aurora GTQC. The GTQC is (by FAR) one of the most impressive pres I've heard in a long time, and this would also give you a very versatile compressor as well.

Option 2:

If I were going to stick with the U-87 decision, I'd just make sure that I could get either an UA LA2A or Tube Tech CL1B in the mix somehow. BAE 1073MP would also probably be affordable with this combo (assuming you buy used equipment) so that you could add another channel "sound" to your arsenal.

But bottom line, I'd try and get something tube somehow that's going to help you get that golden vocal sound.

*I'd also like to point out that the GML is transformerless, and just in my experience (I haven't yet used the GML), I simply prefer the sound of just about anything with a transformer in it vs. something without a transformer for all vocal applications. It's just part of the magic of the sound.

[BLueROom]

Regarding the pre vs. mic comments... I think having a great pre will upgrade your entire mic closet whereas having one great mic and a good pre won't go quite as far.

[Reptil]

Beesknees Mahalia or Arabella
API 7600
mytek ADC