STUDER Vista 5, Vista 7 digital desk - users & impressions?

[andreaeffe]

Opps, just noticed this one went underwater...

Still curious, though - bump, anbody?


A
F

[jetam]

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with Vistas to comment their sound.
Their routing seems very good to me - you can patch almost anything anywhere.
Diferences in digital summing are negotiable. 1+2 equals 3 and 2+1 still equals 3

Anyway I'd prefer an analog console for studio work (tracking/mixing), even an old Hendrix.
Digital console seems pretty much useless for studio. The biggest problem with digital consoles is the lack of automatic delay compensation if you want to insert any external processors (most people use more than just one type of compressors).

It seems like a good console for live oriented work, broadcast, remote recording.

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by jetam

Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with Vistas to comment their sound.
Their routing seems very good to me - you can patch almost anything anywhere.
Diferences in digital summing are negotiable. 1+2 equals 3 and 2+1 still equals 3

Anyway I'd prefer an analog console for studio work (tracking/mixing), even an old Hendrix.
Digital console seems pretty much useless for studio. The biggest problem with digital consoles is the lack of automatic delay compensation if you want to insert any external processors (most people use more than just one type of compressors).

It seems like a good console for live oriented work, broadcast, remote recording.

Agreed.


The Vista seems to have really excellent A/D converters (Studer MADI), very good preamps (clean & hifi, but not the old Studer 900 style "beefyness" & heft... not by a long shot), very good eq (for digital ), a strangely & subjectively "better" sounding soundstage of the summing to stereo master buss than just staying in the box, very bland but still useable compressors and totally crap noise gates (with silly small/unhelpful channel metering for both), extensive routing with an unnecessarily complicated PC program/system/layout/logic/interface to handle it, good desk works surface ergonomics, a couple of serious bugs (talkback&switching monitors, fader recall tolerance, for example), and a lot of stuff that (I'd say if designed with the help of someone actually recording & mixing music) could & should have been included - like, above all, the latency calculated & compensated i/o & inserts.

R.e. rather an analogue desk - obviously and of course, anytime & all the time.

R.e. "even an old Hendrix" - absofookinlutely... a.ka. itaqqqqqqq, eh eh eh...



Anyone else, EU / US Vista users & connoisseurs??


A
F

[mrmecanique]

Hi,

I'm the happy owner of a Studer 904, the last big analog model Studer did build. I have to say that until the Vista serie was released I always preferred the 904 sound to the newer digital desks. This time is over.... almost. I would stiff prefer the analog feeling (real buttons, etc...) in the studio, but for broadcasting or live sound the Vista series are probably the best you can get. Pres, EQs or dynamics are the best I have heard in digital desks and the ease of use/ergonomics are infinitely better that anything on the market. I've worked quite a few times on (Studer's) Soundcraft Vi series desk that share part of the sound and ergonomics and LOVE them as well. I nail my live mixes so faster and better that with the best analog consoles (Midas H series for ex.).

Sting is actually touring with a Vista 5.
Most Swiss TV and radio studios are using Vista's and are multiplexing insane amount of sources. Follow this link to have an idea of what's going on for the BBC's Olympinc games: Studer - [News]

I wish I had more experience to share. I've got a bunch of friends that did dig way more into the desk than me and they all share extremely positive feedbacks wether it's in live sound or broadcasting.

If you have the cash this beast is probably the unrivaled digital desk today regarding sound, ergonomics (miles ahead any other brand) and reliability.

Cheers!

[jwh1192]

you see them in OB trucks (remote video trucks) here in the states ... ALL Mobile Video has a few ... Club Nokia (next to Staples Center) has one in their Audio room ... if you are looking for personal opinions on these consoles, i may be able to get you in touch with a couple sound mixers on the east and west coasts ..

cheers

john

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by jwh1192

you see them in OB trucks (remote video trucks) here in the states ... ALL Mobile Video has a few ... Club Nokia (next to Staples Center) has one in their Audio room ... if you are looking for personal opinions on these consoles, i may be able to get you in touch with a couple sound mixers on the east and west coasts ..

cheers

john

Hey John -

tnx, definitely interesting.

I happen to use a couple of Vista 5s often, is a studio and also in an OB van, and just noticed they're not talked about much round here - but I think they make for some interesting considerations as far as digital desks of today & the Studer legacy go - both positive and negative.

A
F

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by mrmecanique

Hi,

I'm the happy owner of a Studer 904, the last big analog model Studer did build. I have to say that until the Vista serie was released I always preferred the 904 sound to the newer digital desks. This time is over.... almost. I would stiff prefer the analog feeling (real buttons, etc...) in the studio, but for broadcasting or live sound the Vista series are probably the best you can get. Pres, EQs or dynamics are the best I have heard in digital desks and the ease of use/ergonomics are infinitely better that anything on the market. I've worked quite a few times on (Studer's) Soundcraft Vi series desk that share part of the sound and ergonomics and LOVE them as well. I nail my live mixes so faster and better that with the best analog consoles (Midas H series for ex.).

Sting is actually touring with a Vista 5.
Most Swiss TV and radio studios are using Vista's and are multiplexing insane amount of sources. Follow this link to have an idea of what's going on for the BBC's Olympinc games: Studer - [News]

I wish I had more experience to share. I've got a bunch of friends that did dig way more into the desk than me and they all share extremely positive feedbacks wether it's in live sound or broadcasting.

If you have the cash this beast is probably the unrivaled digital desk today regarding sound, ergonomics (miles ahead any other brand) and reliability.

Cheers!

Hey - tnx for the nice input & informative post!


Yes, I'd read the Vistas were chosen for the UK Olympics... good!

Totally with U regarding superb converters, great eqs, very good (on the neutral/hifi clean side) pres, and ergonomics of the desk surface/controls.
Er...and on the "if you have the cash" factor!

Dynamics of the Vistas I'm not at all fond of (especially the expander/gates & on-channel metering), and the PC program & interface running the desk could be, in my opinon, more streamlined, fast, less fiddly & railway command centre/nuclear power plant style.
And a bug or two could have been ironed out, at this price.
The of lack automatic and of course phase coherent (!!!) delay compensation on the A/D/As (btw also the analogue inserts at the mic pre, prior the A/D, are one of the costly add-on options, if I remember correctly) make it a bit of a brick in the water for studio music mixing - and give companies like Midas, e.g. the newer Pro3/6/9, quite a bit of an edge.

Regards,

A
F

[mrmecanique]

As I said I'm just a user as FOH touring bands so I just know how the surface works. You're probably right about the functions missing, etc... and yes the configuration of the desk require a lot of time to really get into it apparently (I believe here my close friends who learned that).

About the Midas digital line I'm not so sure. If I were to have 80% of a Vista for less cash I would go with the Soundcraft Vi with no hesitation. They sound brilliant and I feel as comfy with them as when working in analog. No "weird" EQ shape that makes you wonder or what so ever. Just very good units with serious sound. But.... That's just my feeling/tastes.

Good luck!

[siimlane]

Hi

I'm using Vista9 on a regular basis as its installed in one of our control rooms and i have mixed feelings about it. I really like the ergonomics of the whole board - the buttons are in the places where you think they should be and overall build quality and touch is top notch. As I'm more of a mac guy then the Vista control soft is a bit downer for me. Also in some places i have a feeling that i have too much control over routing. You can really mess up the board in the general patch section.

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by mrmecanique

As I said I'm just a user as FOH touring bands so I just know how the surface works. You're probably right about the functions missing, etc... and yes the configuration of the desk require a lot of time to really get into it apparently (I believe here my close friends who learned that).

About the Midas digital line I'm not so sure. If I were to have 80% of a Vista for less cash I would go with the Soundcraft Vi with no hesitation. They sound brilliant and I feel as comfy with them as when working in analog. No "weird" EQ shape that makes you wonder or what so ever. Just very good units with serious sound. But.... That's just my feeling/tastes.

Good luck!

I haven't worked on the Souncraft Vi, but U might be completely right, as the smaller Si and especially the smallest Si Compact really surprised me in terms of user friendliness, clear layout and eq control (both in terms of the sound sculpting/control it offers, and of the hardware knobs/interface controlling of the eq)!

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by siimlane

Hi

I'm using Vista9 on a regular basis as its installed in one of our control rooms and i have mixed feelings about it. I really like the ergonomics of the whole board - the buttons are in the places where you think they should be and overall build quality and touch is top notch. As I'm more of a mac guy then the Vista control soft is a bit downer for me. Also in some places i have a feeling that i have too much control over routing. You can really mess up the board in the general patch section.

Hello -

My feelings to, I completely hear U there.

The routing is, as I said, sometimes as overbearing as those weird, custom made software interfaces one sees in huge railway routing centres on in documentaries about nuclear power plant management!


On the buttons & ergonomics & control surface on the Vista 5 & 7, I agree that let's say 85% of it is really top notch and easy to use, but some of that remaining 15% is quite irritating, of course on a personal taste level - e.g. I think the rotary buttons for aux sends etc should be either slightly stepped or better damped (as they are now one can spend time with tenths of a DB or many dBs at once just whizzing up and down way too lightly); when tweaking dynamics the Vistonics screens could automatically switch to showing compressor/limiter/expander gain reduction with BIG & clear metering in some "plugin fashion" (given that they are nice in-desk LCD touchscreens, so it's silly to look at the little and roughly approximate channel gain reduction LEDs or see compressor curves pop up on the separate PC control screen); the fader recall both in snapshots and when changing fader layers drives me nuts because it seems to have a 0.2/0.3 dB tolerance - i.e. if U set a fader @ 0dB, when U switch a layer or two or recall some other snapshot and then get back to where U were before, it might not be back @ 0dB, but @ -0.1 or +0.2 or -0.3 etc... (I know it's nitpicking, but hey, isn't this what digital was about - precision, control, repeatability? After all, they are just digital encoders, not actual audio faders running audio through them and being moved by a motor or a VCA, so why the sloppyness??); etc.


But again, i/o sound, converters, preamps and even eq sound are subjectively & I guess also objectively among the very best, anytime.

Every rose has its' thorn...

[roonsbane]

Hi Folks,

I am also interested in this question as I am supposed to give my preference broadcast console for a new hall that I will mostly be working in. The other hall in this building has digico's so interchangeability may be helpful. The new digico consoles we are comparing to would be the SD10B and brand new SD5. The SD10B does look impressive, especially if it will be reliable, ie always pass high quality audio. Also, I think the cheaper Stagetec should also be considered. I believe it is the Auratus. The Aurus is wayyyyy too much cash though the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis spent the $700,000 plus and rumor is they love it.

We also need the console to be surround ready as we sometimes broadcast in Neural DTS. It should probably use MADI stage boxes. FOH would also need to adapt to the same compatible stage boxes so would probably need to be the same manufacturer console, since they all have proprietary preamp control change formats. This room will probably never use more than 40 inputs for broadcast. Also, remote preamps in the ceiling after Xedit reelers will probably be part of the package.

I am surprised andreaeffe that you find the the Studer gates to be so unusable since they can look ahead and pretty much see what's coming at them. I would think that they could be extremely transparent because of this big advantage. I think the thing that makes automatic delay compensation so difficult on a console is that without pinging through the I/O, it has no idea what the full delay might be outside of it's own DA/AD conversion. In other words, what if a user say inserted a TC M5000 into an input channel for processing, it knows what it's own converters latency is, but not the M5000's.

At under $175,000 what other digital console should be considered? Is a small configuration SSL CS200 going to be way more money? The new digico Flexichannels that can be up to 5.1 will be helpful since I need to duck whole 5.1 music groups under announcers during live broadcasts. This can be done using control groups, but 5.1 groups returned back through a single fader is so much more elegant.
Best
Cameron

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by roonsbane

Hi Folks,

I am also interested in this question as I am supposed to give my preference broadcast console for a new hall that I will mostly be working in. The other hall in this building has digico's so interchangeability may be helpful. The new digico consoles we are comparing to would be the SD10B and brand new SD5. The SD10B does look impressive, especially if it will be reliable, ie always pass high quality audio. Also, I think the cheaper Stagetec should also be considered. I believe it is the Auratus. The Aurus is wayyyyy too much cash though the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis spent the $700,000 plus and rumor is they love it.

We also need the console to be surround ready as we sometimes broadcast in Neural DTS. It should probably use MADI stage boxes. FOH would also need to adapt to the same compatible stage boxes so would probably need to be the same manufacturer console, since they all have proprietary preamp control change formats. This room will probably never use more than 40 inputs for broadcast. Also, remote preamps in the ceiling after Xedit reelers will probably be part of the package.

I am surprised andreaeffe that you find the the Studer gates to be so unusable since they can look ahead and pretty much see what's coming at them. I would think that they could be extremely transparent because of this big advantage. I think the thing that makes automatic delay compensation so difficult on a console is that without pinging through the I/O, it has no idea what the full delay might be outside of it's own DA/AD conversion. In other words, what if a user say inserted a TC M5000 into an input channel for processing, it knows what it's own converters latency is, but not the M5000's.

At under $175,000 what other digital console should be considered? Is a small configuration SSL CS200 going to be way more money? The new digico Flexichannels that can be up to 5.1 will be helpful since I need to duck whole 5.1 music groups under announcers during live broadcasts. This can be done using control groups, but 5.1 groups returned back through a single fader is so much more elegant.
Best
Cameron

Hey Cameron -

Hmmm, tough one, I personally haven't done any 5.1 work on the Vista(s), so I can't help U with hands on experience on that matter - I don't recall seeing full surround group faders or the options for these as such, though...but, not having intensively looked for them to use them, I might of course be wrong.
I guess if the DigiCo/Soundtracs does it and U already have those desks in the house, it might indeed make good sense to go that route, your staff will also probably be used to the workflow & ergonomics of those desks, let alone already know some tricks & tips.

Also, check very closely for your request of "mic preamps in the ceiling" - if U mean the desk preamps themselves, remote controlled from the desk surface, there might be limitations as to how far, physically, the racks housing the preamps can be from the rest of the racks/mainframe and the desk control surface itself, so your studio size & control room location kight become an issue. Plus, not all have a rack for just the preamps, often there's a lot of the rest of the desk's "brain" in those racks - so not sure if all makes & brands could cater for ceiling mounting!

As for the Vista's gates, it's not a lookahead problem...
That works perfectly fine. However, it's the subjective "sound" of the gates, or more exactly the way things sound when being/after having been gated, that I don't like, as percussive material, especially if with strong bass energy content, can randomly suffer from "clicky" attack; and the closing of the gate or expander is not always as smooth or chatter-free as I'd like it to be, in fact it's often either too abrupt or too undecided/fluttery, and sounding somewhat grainy.

Regarding the latency compensation, as en experiment, we tried to "ping" the audio through the i/os to measure, calculate & figure out the delay times, and as a matter of fact U just can't - the delay times seem to be different depending on what & how much desk processing is on the channel/source, on if it's from a live source or a DAW recorded one, and we also got the impression the delay had microvariations linked to the frequency content of the source. Within itself the desk evidently deals with everything brilliantly and there are no problems whatsoever, but once the A/D & D/A get involved again, it's a different story.
Spent a lot of time trying & calculating, but there always were phase issues.
It's splitting hairs, but it was there.
In my post above I wasn't talking of interfacing with a TC 5000 or other digital outboard unit (btw in the studio were I often work it digitally interfaces perfectly and seamlessly with the TC System 6000, TC 3000, and Lexicon 300 etc), and going the (weird!) route of desk D/A > outboard A/D > D/A > back to desk A/D, I was more interested in & concerned with using outboard analogue gear - compressors, limiters, "colour" tube & vintage units etc at mixdown time... and it turned out to be a complete no-go.

Kind regards & best of luck with your purchase,


A
F

[andreaeffe]

Ah, and I'd forgotten about this, really mind boggling one:
very very incredibly so, the groups within the Vista 5 itself are NOT phase coherent (!!!) - they introduce additional digital processing latency, even staying all digital, within the desk!

If U try inputting e.g. a hihat cymbal or a vocal or a piano from your DAW to one of the channels and to the master L/R buss, then duplicate it in your DAW (or route it to one more DAW output) and send that same signal to another channel & route that to one of the stereo groups (not the so-called "VCA"s, I mean the stereo groups) and route the group to the master L/R buss - and witness the phasing!


Major designer oversight and mistake, IMHO.

[TheLastByte]

My God......The Studer Vista Series has been going for near 13 years and they are still mucking it about - All based on Sony Oxford & Sony DMXR100 Technology - The D950 looked and had all of that Vista Based Technology, The Studer D950 was a gazillion buck console! And that is where the Vista comes from!

[audiodevices]

If possible have a test run with a good coach...

Good luck

[johanka]

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Hmmm, tough one, I personally haven't done any 5.1 work on the Vista(s), so I can't help U with hands on experience on that matter - I don't recall seeing full surround group faders or the options for these as such, though...but, not having intensively looked for them to use them, I might of course be wrong.
I guess if the DigiCo/Soundtracs does it and U already have those desks in the house, it might indeed make good sense to go that route, your staff will also probably be used to the workflow & ergonomics of those desks, let alone already know some tricks & tips.

The Vista(s) definitely have surround channel strips, group faders etc. it just depends on how you configure the consoles dsp.
Where I work we use both stereo and surround groups/masters, the inboard up/down-mix functions, it is completely flexible to sooth your needs.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Also, check very closely for your request of "mic preamps in the ceiling" - if U mean the desk preamps themselves, remote controlled from the desk surface, there might be limitations as to how far, physically, the racks housing the preamps can be from the rest of the racks/mainframe and the desk control surface itself, so your studio size & control room location kight become an issue. Plus, not all have a rack for just the preamps, often there's a lot of the rest of the desk's "brain" in those racks - so not sure if all makes & brands could cater for ceiling mounting!

The stageboxs connects to the core with MADI (RJ45/optical SC). By default multimode fibre, but can be ordered from Studer with singlemode cards if you need extended range.
RJ45 gives you 100m range on cat5, 130m on cat7, fibre extends to 1.5km (personally I've successfully used the stagebox via singlemode at a distance of 5km).
Stagebox-wise you have at least 3 options:
- a d21m frame with madi card + 12 i/o cards of your choice.
- Studer Vi stagebox 64 micpre 32 line out.
- Studer Vi compact 32/16 + optional cards.

The new "HD-preamps" are much better than the previous.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Regarding the latency compensation, as en experiment, we tried to "ping" the audio through the i/os to measure, calculate & figure out the delay times, and as a matter of fact U just can't - the delay times seem to be different depending on what & how much desk processing is on the channel/source, on if it's from a live source or a DAW recorded one, and we also got the impression the delay had microvariations linked to the frequency content of the source. Within itself the desk evidently deals with everything brilliantly and there are no problems whatsoever, but once the A/D & D/A get involved again, it's a different story.
Spent a lot of time trying & calculating, but there always were phase issues.
It's splitting hairs, but it was there.

I have to look into this a bit further I guess. I think its only imaginary, but to me the Soundcraft Vi6 sums better than the Vista, although its the same team that designed both consoles.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

In my post above I wasn't talking of interfacing with a TC 5000 or other digital outboard unit (btw in the studio were I often work it digitally interfaces perfectly and seamlessly with the TC System 6000, TC 3000, and Lexicon 300 etc), and going the (weird!) route of desk D/A > outboard A/D > D/A > back to desk A/D, I was more interested in & concerned with using outboard analogue gear - compressors, limiters, "colour" tube & vintage units etc at mixdown time... and it turned out to be a complete no-go.

Why was it a complete no-go? We successfully use analog outboard such as compressors (distressors, Tube-tec etc.) and old reverbs/delays with our Vistas.

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by johanka

The Vista(s) definitely have surround channel strips, group faders etc. it just depends on how you configure the consoles dsp.
Where I work we use both stereo and surround groups/masters, the inboard up/down-mix functions, it is completely flexible to sooth your needs.

The stageboxs connects to the core with MADI (RJ45/optical SC). By default multimode fibre, but can be ordered from Studer with singlemode cards if you need extended range.
RJ45 gives you 100m range on cat5, 130m on cat7, fibre extends to 1.5km (personally I've successfully used the stagebox via singlemode at a distance of 5km).
Stagebox-wise you have at least 3 options:
- a d21m frame with madi card + 12 i/o cards of your choice.
- Studer Vi stagebox 64 micpre 32 line out.
- Studer Vi compact 32/16 + optional cards.

Hi there, johanka -

(and... welcome - 1st post, I see )
Very good & interesting, roonsbane who was asking about this r.e. a pending purchase will certainly be glad to know.

I'd forgotten about the singlemode card option, and haven't personally worked in an installation with remote preamps at such distances.

The new "HD-preamps" are much better than the previous.

Good - the old ones were already very good, and I've always liked Studer pres!

I have to look into this a bit further I guess. I think its only imaginary, but to me the Soundcraft Vi6 sums better than the Vista, although its the same team that designed both consoles.

Yes, I agree... it might be psychological or, as I said, truly splitting hairs.
I've heard this Soundcrafts before, but haven't used them myself, except for the quite amazingly brilliant small, "compact" one.
I've also heard (from RAI italian broadcast engineers) that the Studer Vistas sum a lot more nicely/smoothly than the StageTec Cantus, go figure.
Personally, although I haven't had them side by side in the same OB van or studio to do a direct comparison or shootout, I also thought the new Midas digital and the bigger DigiCos sounded better on a busy mix, and at 88.2/96 kHz. By memory, again, I think the older Innovason and the (bigger) Yamahas sounded subjectively "harder", but not in bad way. I really disliked the A&H digital desk's "sound" and muffled, compressed sounding summing, and (some might cringe at this) all the Digidesign live ones - also find the ergonomics on those truly goofy for live use, the above mentioned companies have much better ergonomy and logic, for my taste.

Of course there is no science to my claims, just user impression - I doubt everything could be brought down to measurements & tests, because a lot of it is subjective, psychological, plus there is the "hands-on", in-use factor to consider, which builds or demolishes the sympathy one might have for a desk.

Why was it a complete no-go? We successfully use analog outboard such as compressors (distressors, Tube-tec etc.) and old reverbs/delays with our Vistas.

Simple - because the Vista 5 (and I think the 7, too) has NO latency compensation on the analogue i/o!!!

I also use a lot of analogue gear on the way IN, that is either in line before the A/D inputs, or as an analogue insert on the mic pres, which is again pre A/D conversion.
But, if U're mixing in the studio, from ProTools/Nuendo or any other prerecorded or digital source, once U're digital, in the Vista, anything going out to some analogue gear and back in again will have the D/A conversion time + the A/D conversion time back in added to it, and, as the desk does NOT calculate or compensate automatically for this, what U get back in the desk is delayed, and NOT in time/phase/sync with the rest of your digital tracks anymore.
For reverbs & send x this might be less of a problem, as the microtiming issues might not be so relevant on time/space/modulation fx, or might just be a shade of a longer predelay time, but for all other pruposes, it's a big issue and a major miss on these desks.

Other than this, the fact that the stereo subgroups are NOT delay & phase compensated with the channels themselves, although being digital and within the desk, is even worse, and frankly I find it scandalous, a real shot in the foot for Studer (a company that I usually love and respect a lot)!
Try putting something like a stereo piano or a vocal on one of the inputs, and route it to the L/R master busses, and also to a stereo group, and route that stereo group to the same L/R master buss as well... instant phasing nightmare.


A
F

[TheLastByte]

Unless the Studer Vista is actually for Touring, I always found the D-950 for an Install a much better Console, though at a much higher price, S/H Price would be interesting though I'm not sure many were sold! There I suppose is the difference!
$$$$$$$$$?

[johanka]

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Yes, I agree... it might be psychological or, as I said, truly splitting hairs.
I've heard this Soundcrafts before, but haven't used them myself, except for the quite amazingly brilliant small, "compact" one.

Then you must try the Vi-series. The Si Compact is ok, but not nearly as good as the Vi.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

I've also heard (from RAI italian broadcast engineers) that the Studer Vistas sum a lot more nicely/smoothly than the StageTec Cantus, go figure.

Interesting, very interesting. I've always though it would be the other way around.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Personally, although I haven't had them side by side in the same OB van or studio to do a direct comparison or shootout, I also thought the new Midas digital and the bigger DigiCos sounded better on a busy mix, and at 88.2/96 kHz.

The Midas Pro serier sound amazing. Great preamps and summing, you just need an external effects rack with good reverbs.
I must admit that I haven't used any of the newer big consoles from Digico, but have been using the old D1 a lot. If I compare the Vi to D1, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd choose the Vi if I have a choice.

Originally Posted by andreaeffe

Simple - because the Vista 5 (and I think the 7, too) has NO latency compensation on the analogue i/o!!!

But, if U're mixing in the studio, from ProTools/Nuendo or any other prerecorded or digital source, once U're digital, in the Vista, anything going out to some analogue gear and back in again will have the D/A conversion time + the A/D conversion time back in added to it, and, as the desk does NOT calculate or compensate automatically for this, what U get back in the desk is delayed, and NOT in time/phase/sync with the rest of your digital tracks anymore.
Other than this, the fact that the stereo subgroups are NOT delay & phase compensated with the channels themselves, although being digital and within the desk, is even worse, and frankly I find it scandalous, a real shot in the foot for Studer (a company that I usually love and respect a lot)!
Try putting something like a stereo piano or a vocal on one of the inputs, and route it to the L/R master busses, and also to a stereo group, and route that stereo group to the same L/R master buss as well... instant phasing nightmare.

I have to admit that this is something I haven't tested thoroughly enough on the Vista 8/9.
I usually don't do parallel-compression etc, and use VCA's instead of groups to control level of multiple channels.
I might not have noticed the phasing you describe when using distressors on vocal channels, just because it's a distressor, and I can't remember the last time i used it without the distortion activated.

But I'll sure test it next week mixing Billy Talent at a TV-show.

One thing at last, do you use the Studer with the standard dynamics, or do you use it with the "vintage-package" introduced in Vista Software v.4.0?
It use more of the dsp, which would result in lower track count, but is quite fine to use if you want a bit more vintage compression/gate/expansion sound.