newer apogee stuff better than older?

[robnold]

Hello, My name is Rob. I am fairly new to the GS forum. Thanks in advance for your participation here. I purchased a rosetta A/D in 2001 and have thouroughly enjoyed using it to record purist acoustic music. It is no understatement to say that I love the sound of this unit with all my heart. It gives me exactly what I want. Last week, I decided I needed more channels and purchased a rosetta 800. After a thorough listening, recalibrating, listening, etc. I just couldn't warm up to the 800. I much prefer the sound of my older apogee unit to the newer one. My perception is that the older A/D is so much thicker and richer and fuller than the rosetta 800. I am curious if there are other people out there that are fans of some of the older apogee stuff when compared to the newer stuff. I sent the 800 back. I want to have 8 channels of conversion with a sound that is like my A/D unit. Would an A/D-8000 be similar? Can I purchase two addition older rosetta A/D's and somehow sum their outputs into a digi 001. I look forward to hearing your comments. Thanks, Rob

[SoZo]

You need to get used to the cleaner sound of the new converters and track better and mix better...

The new ones are better then the old rosetta's hands down.
Get a fatter sounding preamp and better EQ's.

Keep working with it and give it a chance to understand its detail and clarity in the high end. Clock it with big ben and as Tony from Brooklyn said Forgetaboutit! lol

[jazzgitter]

I just finished recording an acoustic guitar album with some stellar preamps and a Rosetta 200. The tones we got were so pure/transparent, smooth, and lifelike I could not imagine them being any better.

[simonv]

Not much help to the original poster, but this thread comforts me

I bought an apogee Ad48k since I didn't have cash for the newer models, and I havent tried it yet since my laptop got stolen (lol).


And I love hearing people say that the older apogee stuff might sounds better. It makes me feel like "Hey I just saved 2000$", let's buy a Portico 5012.


To the original poster (and myself sometimes): I've heard awesome recordings come from MOTUs, so if you're argueing over 2 different apogees, you have nothing to worry about.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by robnold

. I am curious if there are other people out there that are fans of some of the older apogee stuff when compared to the newer stuff.

I heard such opinions many times, but truth is really different, even if older Apogee's stuff are better, new Apogees sound better. Just listening and comparing conversion can hardly bring 100% objective result without very strict standards of measuring levels and room treatment.
If you go with many channels of conversion in and out (example analogue summing or processing) than absolutely no doubt that ADDA 16X are the best Apogees products ever.
Even much costlier converters of other producers don't bring essential sonical benefits compared to 16X.

[Fletcher]

The beauty of this kind of stuff lies in the fact that you can now choose converter sounds like you'd choose mic-pre sounds or compressor sounds. If you have one converter that sounds "clearer" and one that sound "thicker" you can use both of those textures to compliment the sounds that comprise your recording as either of those sounds relate to your sense of aesthetic.

[SoZo]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

The beauty of this kind of stuff lies in the fact that you can now choose converter sounds like you'd choose mic-pre sounds or compressor sounds. If you have one converter that sounds "clearer" and one that sound "thicker" you can use both of those textures to compliment the sounds that comprise your recording as either of those sounds relate to your sense of aesthetic.

Best thing I have ever heard come from your mouth! LOL Joking! e


It is ART, I totally agree, the Beatles used board clipping to get textures and layers. You can't always use normal vanilla blue, get some sky blue, navy blue, pastel blue, electric blue etc...

[ddageek]

Ah Fletche,r isnt this what makes us gearslutz? Th fact is budget and need for so much i/o tends to make us strive for a uniform converter, but the Idea that we can use converters as we use mics pres and compressors to achieve a particuar color can only help but confuse the young and delete fund from our bank acounts!

[lukejs]

I think that converters should be true to the source, period !! Let the other analogue gear provide color.... converters should be EXACT and as close to the analogue source as possible. This idea of a certain converter sounding different and adding color...well...this is my idea of a failure in representing the original signal....my 2 cents......

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by lukejs

I think that converters should be true to the source, period !! Let the other analogue gear provide color.... converters should be EXACT and as close to the analogue source as possible. This idea of a certain converter sounding different and adding color...well...this is my idea of a failure in representing the original signal....my 2 cents......

It's all an illusion. There is no EXACT. There is no original signal left by the time it hits the AD converters.
If an older piece of gear helps you create the illusion that you prefer, fine. Use it. I do.
"Perfection" is boring.
Best regards, Rick

[ddageek]

exactly everything distorts in some way ! The trick is to either find the pieces that you believe bring out what is most imortant to you or colour in a way that works for you! rember microphones and speakers are the bigest sources of distortion so it either hits the AD with lots of distortion or in the case of an electronicly generated signal you have no idea what it really is cause it never existed in real space and time !
So how do you know what is and isn't distorted and where those distortions ocurred!

[robnold]

Okay, I get the picture. Every piece of gear, converters included, are going to distort the sound in one way or another. I'm going to choose gear that distorts in a way that pleases my ear. I still have a problem to solve. I need 8 channels of conversion that sound like the rosetta a/d. I would very much like to hear from the people out who have made the following comparisons:

1. rosetta A/D to an A/D-8000 (I would especially like to hear from people who've made this comparison!!!)

2. A/D 8000 to a rosetta 800

Thanks so much for your help. Rob

[jdunn]

This is second hand, but anyway..... I recall reading that Bob Clearmountain preferred the older Apogee AD-8000 to the AD/DA-16 series. This was before the AD/DA-16X series came out though, so I don't know how he's hearing that.

I don't think he mentioned the Rosetta or AD/DA16 series specifically, just that he still liked his AD-8000 better than the new Apogees. So which ones he was comparing to is your guess.

[loosejaw]

I think its all about what you like
I have an ad8000se and would never trade it for a rosetta 800...why?
simpy because they are warm , beautiful and proven converters...I personally agree with the comments that the ad8000 is warmer than the newer stuf, i think it comes down to preference...And i for one Love the ad8000se and see no need to search for a different converter...it simply captures digital in a way i can dig...if i want something else, i go to tape instead.

of course apogee and all the rosetta 800 owners want you to believe its better than the ad8000. I personally would never own a rosetta , when i can own a classy ad8000 with its beautiful meters and solid construcion, the specs from what i hear are better on the ad8000 than the rosetta, but supposedly the Rosetta sounds "better"...whatever....

IMHO ad8000se are still the best goto converters out there, and now u can actually get them cheap on ebay. These converters are a no brainer for someone looking for 8 adda

L.J.

[Sugarnutz]

Originally Posted by jdunn

This is second hand, but anyway..... I recall reading that Bob Clearmountain preferred the older Apogee AD-8000 to the AD/DA-16 series. This was before the AD/DA-16X series came out though, so I don't know how he's hearing that.

I don't think he mentioned the Rosetta or AD/DA16 series specifically, just that he still liked his AD-8000 better than the new Apogees. So which ones he was comparing to is your guess.

This is from Bob's website, it's a Routing Chart showing five DA-16X units for his PTHD rig and 3348HR. Personally I'm looking at the a pair of Rosetta 800's with X-Mix cards to interface all of my 44.1/24 junk.. DA7, HD24, PC w/Nuendo - RME 9652, PTMix system and get a Big Ben to clock all of it. A Z-Sys Adat patchbay/router would also help with all this. If the X-Mix cards where available for the AD/DA-16X's I would probably go that route.

[garymusic]

I own a Roseatta 200 and I think it is just fine. I had a older Rosetta A/D and I liked that too. I sold the older Rosetta it because I needed to have a unit that had word clock input as I have more than two digital devices in my studio and you don't want to chain word clock. I have everything in the studio clocked to big ben. I think as long as the older appogee has word clock input and could lock to a big ben in would work just fine.

-Gary

[whitepapagold]

I just bought an ad8000se over the Rosetta 800 as well. Based more off cost and system than anything else. They both sound great. My mix 24 maxes at 48k so why go higher-the ad8000se is perfect. 96k would be nice but 192k is worthless. Its nice to know going above 96k(its actually lower) goes against the math behind sampling theory and I trust the engineering concepts behind it.
Considering you can get an AD8000se for around $2000 its hard to drop another grand for the 800- especially since I never said to myself," damn, this ad8000se sounds like sh*t". To me there is a certain point I hit where the numbers and nit picking become unnecessary and Id rather make music.
I like Fletchers take-use the flavor to your benefit. There is no "REAL" - thats what convert means. To create a relative representation of the audio. Saying converters should not sound different IS like saying you should only use one pre. Use your tools and your ears and make music.
If your old rosetta has no clock input- you probably need to consider other options and use them together. For me, the ad8000se fits the bill just right. Plus clients get all excited when they know what it is-good enough for me.

[Duardo]

the specs from what i hear are better on the ad8000 than the rosetta, but supposedly the Rosetta sounds "better"...whatever....

Are the specs really better on the 8000? That would be surprising if it were the case.

I think that if you got a bunch of people in a room with an AD8000 and a Rosetta 800 you'd find that they were pretty evently split on which one sounded "better". If you also had the analog source to compare to, though, I'd think that you'd have consensus that the Rosetta 800 sounded more like the source, which would make it "better" from a design perspective since converter manufacturers are generally going for transparency and accuracy in their designs. That doesn't mean, however, that people won't prefer the sound of the older converters...especially the orignal poster, who was looking for a "thicker and richer and fuller" (ie less accurate, for better or for worse) sound.

-Duardo

[loosejaw]

[QUOTE=Duardo]Are the specs really better on the 8000? That would be surprising if it were the case.



i have been following posts like this, and i remember someone quoting some specs, and they were better on the ad8000se than the 800.

Bottom line, newer gear is not always better, i remember hearing that the older 48k Radar sounded better then the newer 96k version, i only say this, because i think we are starting to plateau a little in the digital realm, a sound is a sound, when i record a kick or bass with my ad8000se it sounds fat and warm, if the Rosetta sounds clearer and more accurate, i dont think i would want that. I would suggest to anyone looking to buy 8 ad/da to just get an ad8000se and go nuts, they just feel good, i am all about vibe and this thing has got it, ask any owner, no one is ever dissapointed to work with one, or wondering if it rocks....I just love this box!!!

peace

L.J.

[loosejaw]

Originally Posted by delcosmos

Ok please help me on this one, I want to change my AD8000 (no SE).

Do you think Rosetta800 is better than my AD8000?
I mean, I don't have the SE version so maybe the rosetta is a better option.

Best.

Armando Avila

If i was you i would keep on using my ad8000, who cares if its not se, to me upgrading to a rosetta 800 is a waste of money, spend the cash on a mic, a pre, or a comp or whatever, if u had a motu, i'd say get an ad8000se, but since u already have an ad8000 stick with it. You can make GREAT records with an ad8000, many have its a very classy unit, and whether a rosetta 800 sounds better is subjective at best.
At apogee they consider the rosetta the"little bother" of the ad8000
I'll stick with time proven BIG brother thankyou, plus you dont have to spend money.
I personally think ad converters have topped out, they are really good, they will never be tape, no matter what converter salesmen say...bottom line, with a great pre, mic, source its impossible to not get great sounds with an ad8000


L.J.