Mixes with converters and ITB OTB... samples!

cap217 · 8th December 2005

Here are a couple minute long clips of a song mixed the same pretty much but with different converters and one on an SSL.

The first is a mix done OTB on a tascam M3500 into a stero 1176 to the 002 converters.

The second is done into the UA converter the 2208 or whatever it is the same setup as the first, through stero 1176's.

The third is done with no compressor between the board and the UA.

The fourth was done at a professional studio on a SSL 5000 series.... the mix is a little different! (a band actually wanted to spend money!!! wow)

What do you think? I know I need a stero compressor for the master buss.... also there is a buzzing sound, that is the bass DI.... I DID NOT TRACK THESE SONGS, just mixed and mastered. I know the vox were a ribbon mic, I hate the distortion in the vox but I cant fix it.... all I did was heavy compression with my La-2a

Mark Warren · 8th December 2005

Listening through Rosetta 800 to HR824's:

First mix (Capri002) sounds good, nice and balanced.

Second mix (tango 1176) sounds a little boxy in the low-to-mid and the the upper mids coming poking through too much. The guitar sounds forward and the vocal sounds really forward.

Third mix sounds flat and muffled compared to the first, felt like a blanket on the monitors. Upper mid clarity is gone, bottom end gone. Sounds very 'demo' actually. Yay for the 1176 I guess. What model 1176 were you using (vintage, re-issue, etc.).

Last mix (SSL) is definitely a different cup of tea. There's a lot more going on in the bottom end here sonically, the whole bottom end sounds different. The mids here sound 'nasally', but that's only in comparison. By itself it does have a good sound, but when the chorus-thing comes in around 00:40 it lacks the impact transition-wise of the first mix, the vocal has more 'rip' to it in the first mix, around 00:47 almost that Sugar Ray type of thing.

What does the band like and what do you think?

Number one is best in my book, that Tascam sounds good.

cap217 · 9th December 2005

its good to hear that you liked the first one over the ssl mix.... the actual mix was crap for that one but I wanted to run it through the board and it was my first attmempt on it! But what I dont understand is you picked the 002 converters instead of the apogee ones...... but I kind of hear what your talking about. I mean it is the exact same mix nothing different between the first 3 just level diferences..... it is also my first attemt on the tascam and its hard to get used to. I usuall do an ITB mix then a stero mix out to a dual channel pre then comp then back to PT then I always use waves LinMB and L2..... But here is a questions........... what is the difference b/t summing 16 tracks with the folcrom then a 2ch pre compared to just running a stero mix to a pre? I know the obvious difference but is it worth the 800 bucks for a summing passive box? I think I am gonna post this question elsewhere.....

Snatchman · 9th December 2005

Hey, I like the second mix. Sound a little "smoother" in the mids and could be the UA converters tho'. BTW..I agree that the Tascam sounds good! Is it stock or a "modded" version?

Mark Warren · 9th December 2005

Yeah, second mix is good too. My comments on the second mix weren't so much the sound but just that for whatever reason the vocal seemed way out in front there. If the vocal was tucked back a little bit there I would give the second one my vote as well.

cap217 · 10th December 2005

I dont believe any mods. I just got it and this was the first real mix I did (but I half assed it). I like it so far but like I said before.... I need a compressor to put after the mixer before the converters and PT.

RainbowStorm · 11th December 2005

Hi!

Thanks for sharing these clips with us! I would like to hear more clips like these of how different converters sound.

It was good that the different versions were limited because it's much easier to hear the difference in that way.

I listened through my reference consumer speakers and among the three first clips I liked the second one the best, even though I noticed that the sound of the hi-hat on that one was not as good as on the first one, so the second clip was a little more jittery. What made me choose it was that when I was listening to it I all of a sudden felt that it was a little warmer which created better feelings and a better listening experience, very important! I actually wanted to confirm this so I listened once again and noticed that the bass was clearly much softer in the attack in the second clip.

At first I was not sure about the quality of the last clip, but then I made up my mind, this version is not pleasant listening to, the bass gives me an headache. In a way it was wider and more like professionally produced material, but the bass was really hard and it made the listening experience not very pleasant and the feelings were also not very good. But I don't think that the converter caused this. The reason was a combination of too much limiting, a bad sounding bass guitar and inbalanced bass track volume. That's why I vote for the last clip, more detailed sound overall, actually quite a big difference...!

BTW, something that makes this a little hard to compare is the fact that the last clip had much less mids. I noticed that when I lowered the bass level on my speakers and also noticed that the singer was not very present. The last clip was not as balanced as the rest.

9th December 2005	#3
cap217 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,008 Thread Starter	good to hear its good to hear that you liked the first one over the ssl mix.... the actual mix was crap for that one but I wanted to run it through the board and it was my first attmempt on it! But what I dont understand is you picked the 002 converters instead of the apogee ones...... but I kind of hear what your talking about. I mean it is the exact same mix nothing different between the first 3 just level diferences..... it is also my first attemt on the tascam and its hard to get used to. I usuall do an ITB mix then a stero mix out to a dual channel pre then comp then back to PT then I always use waves LinMB and L2..... But here is a questions........... what is the difference b/t summing 16 tracks with the folcrom then a 2ch pre compared to just running a stero mix to a pre? I know the obvious difference but is it worth the 800 bucks for a summing passive box? I think I am gonna post this question elsewhere.....

9th December 2005	#4
Snatchman Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,325	Hey, I like the second mix. Sound a little "smoother" in the mids and could be the UA converters tho'. BTW..I agree that the Tascam sounds good! Is it stock or a "modded" version? __________________ Thanks for your time and ears!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Listen the sample of OTB vs ITB!	Vertigo2006	High end	0	4th August 2006 11:07 PM
ITB OTB	Jay Lee	Low End Theory	2	12th June 2006 01:26 PM
ITB vs. OTB	tvanveen	So much gear, so little time!	88	4th June 2006 07:04 AM
ITB,OTB, OTB to tape, examples enclosed	everybody's x	So much gear, so little time!	52	31st October 2005 12:26 AM
ITB or OTB	C.Lambrechts	High end	87	3rd July 2005 06:04 PM

8th December 2005	#2
Mark Warren Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Location: USA Posts: 661	Listening through Rosetta 800 to HR824's: First mix (Capri002) sounds good, nice and balanced. Second mix (tango 1176) sounds a little boxy in the low-to-mid and the the upper mids coming poking through too much. The guitar sounds forward and the vocal sounds really forward. Third mix sounds flat and muffled compared to the first, felt like a blanket on the monitors. Upper mid clarity is gone, bottom end gone. Sounds very 'demo' actually. Yay for the 1176 I guess. What model 1176 were you using (vintage, re-issue, etc.). Last mix (SSL) is definitely a different cup of tea. There's a lot more going on in the bottom end here sonically, the whole bottom end sounds different. The mids here sound 'nasally', but that's only in comparison. By itself it does have a good sound, but when the chorus-thing comes in around 00:40 it lacks the impact transition-wise of the first mix, the vocal has more 'rip' to it in the first mix, around 00:47 almost that Sugar Ray type of thing. What does the band like and what do you think? Number one is best in my book, that Tascam sounds good.

10th December 2005	#6
cap217 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,008 Thread Starter	I dont believe any mods. I just got it and this was the first real mix I did (but I half assed it). I like it so far but like I said before.... I need a compressor to put after the mixer before the converters and PT.

11th December 2005	#7
RainbowStorm Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,076	Hi! Thanks for sharing these clips with us! I would like to hear more clips like these of how different converters sound. It was good that the different versions were limited because it's much easier to hear the difference in that way. I listened through my reference consumer speakers and among the three first clips I liked the second one the best, even though I noticed that the sound of the hi-hat on that one was not as good as on the first one, so the second clip was a little more jittery. What made me choose it was that when I was listening to it I all of a sudden felt that it was a little warmer which created better feelings and a better listening experience, very important! I actually wanted to confirm this so I listened once again and noticed that the bass was clearly much softer in the attack in the second clip. At first I was not sure about the quality of the last clip, but then I made up my mind, this version is not pleasant listening to, the bass gives me an headache. In a way it was wider and more like professionally produced material, but the bass was really hard and it made the listening experience not very pleasant and the feelings were also not very good. But I don't think that the converter caused this. The reason was a combination of too much limiting, a bad sounding bass guitar and inbalanced bass track volume. That's why I vote for the last clip, more detailed sound overall, actually quite a big difference...! BTW, something that makes this a little hard to compare is the fact that the last clip had much less mids. I noticed that when I lowered the bass level on my speakers and also noticed that the singer was not very present. The last clip was not as balanced as the rest.