What can I glue my orchestra together with?

[reid]

Most of my work is with sample based orchestras (VSL, East West, etc), with the occasional live player thrown into the mix. Not very rock n roll, I know....

I'm looking for suggestions of how to get the final, big sound, 'glue' into my masters - was wondering if getting away from my plug ins, and out into the real world, might help, in which case.....

Drawmer 1968? Fatso? STC-8?

Given the nauture of the music, I'm not looking to wring it's neck, just....encourage it a little

Any suggestions welcome, esp. if it's based on this type of situation

Ta.

[thethrillfactor]

One word...

Reverb.

[reid]

that straight forward, eh? Care to elaborate?

I'm getting a lot of joy out of both my TC M3000 and Altiverb, particularly with the latter's 'stage positioning' feature, but I still feel there's something lacking.

As the wits amongst you might be thinking, the answer could well be 'talent'.....

but I'm still open to suggestions

[LAU]

yeah, try an impulse response verb of a great concert or orchestral recording hall, thats how that music sounds....

[mixerguy]

I have three words for you.... A GREAT MIX(ER)

someone who knows how the real orchestra should sound...... and can make the fake stuff sound far more realistic.

It isn't one specific thing - it is 50+ small decisions that are made as the mix is happening..... that will end up with a great sounding mix.

[JTR]

Originally Posted by reid

As the wits amongst you might be thinking, the answer could well be 'talent'.....

Actually, I was thinking Lepage's 5 minute epoxy...

try Thrill's suggestion, with a twist;

stem Re-amping in a small to medium size church or theater

[SparkyCanada]

Glue? - "Paiste" cymbals...

Sorry 'bout that....

SparkyCanada

[MIKEHARRIS]

Skill...or some one with it...as above

[mixerguy]

JTR said: stem Re-amping in a small to medium size church or theater

In my opinion - yuck

YMMV

[JTR]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

JTR said: stem Re-amping in a small to medium size church or theater

In my opinion - yuck

YMMV

Fair enough; how come?

[MJGreene Audio]

If I am mixing in the box I use two reverbs. Altiverb with 1. Lexicon 480 or 960 small church for the big verb and then I use the Altiverb "Trackdown Scoring Stage" for the glue. It gives more of the impression that it was tracked together in a scoring stage. Varying degree's of both make for a nice cohesive sound.

Old Lexicon 300's preset "Soundstage" works well also.

Michael Greene

[mixerguy]

JTR said: stem Re-amping in a small to medium size church or theater

I think this is not going to work as you will not end up with the sound of an orchestra in a room... but merely the sound of loudspeakers in a room, being re-recorded.

If it was one solo instrument - maybe... but..... a whole ensemble? There are much better options for reverb rather than re-amping in a room...... in my humble opinon.

[reid]

Thanks for your replies, guys. Lot of food for thought in there - particularly the remark about 50+ small decisions, Mixerguy; good call - I think I might be about 10 or so decisions short, now and then.

Nice tip about using 2 reverbs, Michael - I'll give it a try.

[six_wax]

I've done a couple sample orchestra mixes and found the following:

the dynamics of the individual tracks of programmed orchestral pieces tends to be way out of whack with what you would get mic'ing a player sitting in an orchestra. sometimes, just smoothing out the dynamics on individual parts goes a long way.

most sample libraries close mic their instuments, which means you're getting a very diffierent signature than how the same instrument would sound bouncing around in a hall into overhead mics. impulse reverbs like altiverb help alot, but you can also use some smooth eqs to nudge the instruments towards what you want them to sound like. sampled strings tend to sound very honky and mellow in lower registers and shrill in high ones. often, you can soften this effect with eq.

you have to know what a real orchestra in a hall sounds like, and which instruments are supposed to dominate in which registers. I've done a little orchestration, but not enough to know everything about the orchestrator's intent. so generally, the composer or orchestrator can be very helpful at mix time --if they actually have experience working with a live orchestra. just riding levels to get things into a 'natural' orchestral balance can make a huge difference as well.

[David R.]

I would agree with reverb. That does not mean lots of it, but you do want to make sure all your players are in the same room.