Is the API VP26 right for me?

[minor_glitch]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

Hey Paul,

I must say, when I saw your user name "minor_glitch" I thought "oh shit"!!

Kudos on the picture diary. Man that looks great and I know how long it takes to do something like that. Fantastic work. I think I will put a link to the diary on my site, if you don't mind.

I have been wanting to say the following for a while now. Paul's post was the "straw on the camel's back". From my vantage point, I can't even express how really, really cool it is to know that many of you guys are building one of the VP preamps as your first real DIY project. Very, very rewarding to say the least! That was my goal with the Assembly Guide. To get the point across that any body with some decent hand skills can successfully build one of these preamp kits. After the joy of the building accomplishment fades a little, you've still got a high end, top notch preamp to track with! I've said it before and will say it again, Saul and company knew what they were doing back in their day. thumbsup

Regards, Jeff

Haha thanks Jeff. I was originally going to call my little home studo 'Minor Glitch Audio' but I decided against it since it might scare people away!

By all means feel free to link to the photo diary.
The only problem might be that the photos are hosted on photobucket, and they have a monthly bandwidth limit, so if too many people check out the photos they'll eventually stop showing up.
I could easily change the links to the photos in the diary if you wanted to host them on your site though.

You're absolutely right about how rewarding this little preamp kit is.
For some of us it's a huge accomplishment to build your own preamp.
The first time you put it in your lunchbox, turn it on, duck and cover, and realize it didn't explode, you feel like you accomplished something!

Then the bonus comes when you plug in a micrpohone and realize just how amazing this preamp really is! You didn't just build a preamp, you built a fantastic preamp, and we definitely owe that to you Jeff (and Saul of course).

Trust me, you'll be bitten by the DIY bug once you complete this preamp! I've already gone and ordered most of the parts for Bo's active DI over on prodigy-pro.com, and I'm very, very tempted to tackle a gssl when I have the money. (Just ordered an Xpressor, so I'm officially broke.)

Thanks again Jeff!

[ben_allison]

The VP 26 is by far the most rewarding DIY project I've ever worked on. Just perfection.

[morchid]

Originally Posted by minor_glitch

Just thought I'd share my experience with building this pre.
It arrived two days ago and it only took me about 3.5 hours to build.
It was actually the first project of this kind I've ever built. My only soldering experience before this has just been making cables and repairing the odd thing.

I can't say enough good things about this pre! It sounds amazing and the assembly guide made the build really easy.

Thanks for this great preamp Jeff!

If anyone is interested, I took a bunch of photos while I was assembling it:
Paul Mantini Audio Production - DIY

This is encouraging! Just ordered a kit with a red dot (already built ) last week. This'll be my first DIY project as well and I'm really anxious to get started.

[bleen]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

I have been wanting to say the following for a while now. Paul's post was the "straw on the camel's back". From my vantage point, I can't even express how really, really cool it is to know that many of you guys are building one of the VP preamps as your first real DIY project. Very, very rewarding to say the least! That was my goal with the Assembly Guide. To get the point across that any body with some decent hand skills can successfully build one of these preamp kits.

And let me compliment you on the Assembly Guide - it's the BEST set of instructions I've ever seen. I had no questions through the build process and each step was clear and made perfect sense.

Thanks again, Jeff!

[minor_glitch]

Originally Posted by bleen

And let me compliment you on the Assembly Guide - it's the BEST set of instructions I've ever seen. I had no questions through the build process and each step was clear and made perfect sense.

Agreed, I only ran into two...minor glitches...(sorry, had to).
The first one was just that I didn't have a printer to print out the nice little sorting chart for the resistors, or the measurement guide for the transformer leads. No big deal there, a pen, a ruler and a little guessing solved that.

A good trick is to use the invoice attached to the side of the shipping box. It's already folded into 8 sections. Perfect for sorting the resistors!

The second one was the 3 deck pot. It took me a whopping 5 seconds to figure out how to solder the center lead to hooks instead of holes like the assembly guide showed. That's a minute and 55 seconds less than it usually takes me to find my tv remote!

[monkeyxx]

yeah, these things are very rewarding and become addictive, and just a ridiculous value. a total package.

The VP26 has become my current go-to acoustic guitar preamp, it just sounds so natural, yet with character. I use the VP312 on my acoustic room mic. Right now I'm preferring the SCA C84 for my vocals, but am curious how the VPs with a purple KDJ4 op amp will stack up.

After a lot of listening, I'd say the GAR1731 melcor is a bit warmer, rounder, fuller, vintagey sounding, where the GAR2520 gets a little brighter and slightly more firm or present in the midrange. it's a subtle difference. maybe the melcor sounds kind of 70s, and the 2520 more 80s, in another way of speaking. The 2520 is the more familiar API sound, and the 1731 is a nice slight variation. half a step in the Neve direction, to use another familiar reference.

[ArnauTS]

It's easy to build and i love it how it sounds so im buying more soon
[IMG]******//i184.photobucket.com/albums/x235/arnau32/DSC_0424.jpg[/IMG]

[marty lester]

hey Jeff-

sorry to bug you, but when i looked on your site, the VP26 kit didn't seem to be selectable to purchase. forgive me if this has been discussed...

thanks,
marty.

[teachingking]

Yeah, quantity is 0 for all the kits. Either these things are selling like hotcakes and/or....making room for the new mystery module?

C'mon Jeff, let us know what's in store!

[jsteiger]

OK, here goes, hopefully the short version.

I have the store software set up so that a product that is out of stock cannot be purchased. Nothing worse than back orders and owing someone some parts or kits. Makes me feel uneasy.

The preamp kits are set up in oscommerce as "bundles". A group of individual products that I select and put together to form a product kit hence "bundle". The stock shown for a "bundle" is whatever product is in that bundle that currently has the lowest stock. Right now, that is the DOA sockets. If you click on a preamp's product page and scroll down a little, the list will show you every component or part and how many of them are required to complete the "bundle". It's the tan background table which you can see here. The table also shows the current stock of each item. When you see the DOA socket set, it will show "this product is out of stock" in red.

Now, click the thumbnail link of the DOA sockets and a new browser window of that product will open. There it shows that they are out of stock but expected Wednesday September 22nd. This is accurate. I just tracked them!

Anyhow, that all works fine and dandy as long as I enter the dates and catch something as soon as it sells out.

I am amazed at how difficult it is to keep everything in stock in order to keep the kits "in stock". As you guys can guess, we get a lot of "2 week deliveries" that turn into 4-5 or more!

Knobs are the biggest challenge. The company that makes them is just finishing a major move. Deliveries from them have been screwed up bad all summer. As you are scrolling down the bundle screen, you will see that the 1-62-2B output knobs are really low. 500pc were originally scheduled for delivery on August 4th! So far, I have only received 100 of those and they are almost gone...

Hope some of that helps.

Cheers, Jeff

[marty lester]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

OK, here goes, hopefully the short version.

I have the store software set up so that a product that is out of stock cannot be purchased. Nothing worse than back orders and owing someone some parts or kits. Makes me feel uneasy.

Hope some of that helps.

Cheers, Jeff

it does indeed...thanks! (can i get on a back-order list??)

no worries...standing by,
marty.

[minor_glitch]

Hey Jeff I just checked and photobucket has like 10gb of bandwith/month so it won't be a problem at all if you'd like to link to the photo diary.

[Kurbs101]

Originally Posted by Klauth

The VP-26 IS an excellent choice when paired with the sm-7. you can NOT go wrong with the VP-26... thumbsup ~klauth.

Agreed.

[ScumBum]

The vp312 is a clone of an api 312 ?

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

The vp312 is a clone of an api 312 ?

I prefer "recreation".

It's the original circuit found on the old 312 cards.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

I prefer "recreation".

It's the original circuit found on the old 312 cards.

So the VP312 should sound very close to the api 3124 because those are 312 mic pres .

As far as the VP312DI , if I want to have the same DI setup that is used in the 3124 what parts do I get from your site ? When I pick the VP312DI it says you need to pick "HiZ Plug-In Kit or two" . I'm not familiar with DI's at all , so what setup should I use to copy the 3124 .

Thanks for all the help Jeff .

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

The vp312 is a clone of an api 312 ?

So the VP312 should sound very close to the api 3124 because those are 312 mic pres .

There are literally dozens of preamps on the market that use that same standard 312 design (to the point where they all could be considered "clones" depending on your definition).

At one point, 90% of the available 500 series preamps were based on this simple design. And still to this day the majority of units for this format are based on this schematic. Using different op amps and transformers accounts for the main differences in sound between all of these units.

It's a simple design and is probably the most copied preamp of all time.

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

So the VP312 should sound very close to the api 3124 because those are 312 mic pres .

Well, not exactly. From the skiz I have seen, the 3124 is a modified 312 circuit. They are not the same as what was on the old 312 cards.

As far as the VP312DI , if I want to have the same DI setup that is used in the 3124 what parts do I get from your site ? When I pick the VP312DI it says you need to pick "HiZ Plug-In Kit or two" . I'm not familiar with DI's at all , so what setup should I use to copy the 3124...

The closest circuit to the one I have seen on an old 3124 schemo, is the included circuit that I call "Post 2622". This is one resistor, 1 cap, straight into the discrete opamp. The values of those 2 components are different than a 3124 but will get you into the same wheelhouse.

The VP312DI will function just fine without a HiZ Plug-In module installed. You of course have less tonal options and what fun is that? So, with no HiZ Plug-In module, you only get the "Post 2622" (more like a 3124) mode, or what I like to call Bo Mode.

I am using the R and C values made public by Bo Hansen. FWIW, Bo modified 312 & 325 cards for Direct Inject in the mid '70's. From what I know, this is more than 5 years before the 512 or 3124. Maybe the chicken and egg story? Who knows.

There are literally dozens of preamps on the market that use that same standard 312 design (to the point where they all could be considered "clones" depending on your definition).

You are probably right Tony. You would for sure know better than me.

The 312 is about as simple as it gets. The original 312 is a 2622 input transformer straight into a 2520 straight into a 2503. There are no other components directly in the signal path. That's why by my definition I refer to the VP312 as a recreation and not a clone. I have not tried to improve, change or deviate from that circuit. I believe Saul and the boys had their shit together when they designed that stuff!

When using the DI, straight into a 2520 (depending on the DOA), there can be significant DC offset from the DOA. This DC can be potentially harmful to the output transformer since a 2503 is not gaped to handle DC. This is why I have the Elna coupling cap between the DOA and the 2503, to block this DC. I have a little shunt jumper so you can bypass this cap for authentic 312 card performance but do not recommend this if you like to use the "Post 2622" DI mode. There is typically very little if any DC offset when using a HiZ Plug-In. IMO, the FET1 Plug-In is more aggressive, maybe a little "meaner" sounding than straight into the 2520.

Regards, Jeff

[bleen]

Got my fourth VP26 finished up today!

Also grabbed a lunchbox last night, so as soon as my other red dots arrive, I'm ready to properly test.

I have a quick question - when metering the DOA sockets, probing between the "C" and "O" takes a LONG time to climb over 200k. It always does, but it starts in the negative and over 5 minutes or so climbs up over 200k. It's done this on all my units, so I'm assuming it's okay, but is this expected?

Thanks again, Jeff, for some really amazing gear!

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by bleen

Got my fourth VP26 finished up today!

Also grabbed a lunchbox last night, so as soon as my other red dots arrive, I'm ready to properly test.

I have a quick question - when metering the DOA sockets, probing between the "C" and "O" takes a LONG time to climb over 200k. It always does, but it starts in the negative and over 5 minutes or so climbs up over 200k. It's done this on all my units, so I'm assuming it's okay, but is this expected?

Thanks again, Jeff, for some really amazing gear!

Yeah, that is not a problem. It's the couple of components between the opamp and the output tranny. Some DMM's react a little differently here. If there were a direct short, it would settle right away at .1 or something. That would indicate some sort of problem. BTW, this test/check should be done with the mute switch out. FWIW, this test in a VP312 will read about 8-9 ohms.

You should have received those other 3 red dots by now. I think they left here last Saturday. Maybe you will get them yet today. Did I send you tracking for that 2nd package?

Cheers, Jeff

[bleen]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

Yeah, that is not a problem. It's the couple of components between the opamp and the output tranny. Some DMM's react a little differently here. If there were a direct short, it would settle right away at .1 or something. That would indicate some sort of problem. BTW, this test/check should be done with the mute switch out. FWIW, this test in a VP312 will read about 8-9 ohms.

Yup, all switches out. The one pre that I did have the red dot for works great, so I figured it was part of the process and not a problem. Thanks for confirming!

You should have received those other 3 red dots by now. I think they left here last Saturday. Maybe you will get them yet today. Did I send you tracking for that 2nd pack

Looks like they are "out for delivery" right now.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by bleen

Got my fourth VP26 finished up today!

Also grabbed a lunchbox last night, so as soon as my other red dots arrive, I'm ready to properly test.

I have a quick question - when metering the DOA sockets, probing between the "C" and "O" takes a LONG time to climb over 200k. It always does, but it starts in the negative and over 5 minutes or so climbs up over 200k. It's done this on all my units, so I'm assuming it's okay, but is this expected?

Thanks again, Jeff, for some really amazing gear!

yeah same thing on my multimeter

[bleen]

Finished my fourth one yesterday and the red dots arrived in the mail, too!

Powered it all up in the studio this morning, tested dynamic & condenser mics on everything - BINGO!!! They all work perfectly and sound great! I'm tracking drums today, so I'll be hitting them with inside kick, top snare and overheads.

[IMG]******//dongunn.com/photos/lunchbox1.jpg[/IMG]

[monkeyxx]

man those look great! can't wait till I get my four-in-a-row.... gettin' some funds from my weekend recording gig.... HMMMM

[dandeurloo]

Originally Posted by bleen

Finished my fourth one yesterday and the red dots arrived in the mail, too!

Powered it all up in the studio this morning, tested dynamic & condenser mics on everything - BINGO!!! They all work perfectly and sound great! I'm tracking drums today, so I'll be hitting them with inside kick, top snare and overheads.

[IMG]******//dongunn.com/photos/lunchbox1.jpg[/IMG]

Looks great! What is that the pres are sitting on? How do you like that?

Love the combo. VP26 + red dots!

Whats the plan for the empty spaces?

[minor_glitch]

Originally Posted by dandeurloo

Looks great! What is that the pres are sitting on?...

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ompressor.html

[monkeyxx]

ok well, I built a few of the ML2520s, and, I'll be damned if these don't put the VP modules right into the "new school API" zone. sounds really close to old recordings I made with a stock 3124+. Why not get some of these (also available pre-made for those not inclined to DIY) if you're a 512C kind of person, since API 2520s are hard to come by?

so my assessment is, GAR2520 - fast and ballsy and big, ML2520 - thick and woolier, I keep wanting to call this sound "milky" because of the soft high end quality and subtle fullness, GAR1731 - very even and smooth, the most "White Album" in sound ("vintage"), somewhere between the two others

all the same price, and all built by me

listen for yourself (approximately the same mic placements) don't slag me on typical sound comparison caveats. I truly believe that you should be able to pretty easily be able to discern some sort of difference in character between these recordings, despite the "unscientific" approach. ANYWAY, that said, here's three recordings. which is your favorite?

[teachingking]

Thanks for that! I was literally just going to ask if you could post a comparison of the DOAs

P.S. Where do you purchase the ML2520 kit?

[ben_allison]

Nice. I think the differences make themselves known.

Me wants a GAR1731!

[monkeyxx]

the ML2520 I purchased from a thread on the "black market" DIY forum on prodigy-pro.com ...It looks like all the ML2520 threads there have been removed, and whistlerockaudio.com has a "coming soon" page up, which is Michael Lebon's name for his company, which I guess he's just now starting up. They're based in Canada, btw. I guess he's busy and unavailable right now? Actually if you click on the link on the whistlerockaudio.com front page you can send him an email. I had a pleasant and easy ordering experience with him.

I just noticed that Jeff is stocking the APP 2050E at classicapi.com for a pretty good price, too, I'm going to have to try one of those with my next kit. The Purple KDJ4, too, maybe I can add those to my comparison examples.