Is the API VP26 right for me?

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by manysounds

After gleaning the interwebs I see the truth in it!

You're probably right All told, the group of us will probably be doing 14 units, maybe. So might as well mix it up

Cool and if you can , try to at least pick up one Missing Link , VC528 , you will be REALLY happy you did . Its a pretty intense build in that theres alot of parts but that thing sounds crazy good . It makes everything you run through it sound more Pro , Phat , Analog . It might mean not getting two of your pre amps but its worth it .

[mrface2112]

I've got a VP25 kit (with gar2520 opamp kit) on the way. Should be here tomorrow. This is my first 500-series preamp, but I'm no stranger to building things--i've built tube amps, stomp boxes, etc., so i'm really looking forward to it.

I'm looking to populate my lunchbox with a set of preamps that'll be good for tracking drums and electric guitars primarily. Figured I'd start with a VP25 for kick, a VP26 for snare and a pair of 312's for overhead/tom duties. I've also got an Apogee MiniMe with a pair of nice clean pres that work great on OH.

Looking forward to reporting back in on the build!

cheers,
wade

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

I've got a VP25 kit (with gar2520 opamp kit) on the way. Should be here tomorrow. This is my first 500-series preamp, but I'm no stranger to building things--i've built tube amps, stomp boxes, etc., so i'm really looking forward to it.

I'm looking to populate my lunchbox with a set of preamps that'll be good for tracking drums and electric guitars primarily. Figured I'd start with a VP25 for kick, a VP26 for snare and a pair of 312's for overhead/tom duties. I've also got an Apogee MiniMe with a pair of nice clean pres that work great on OH.

Looking forward to reporting back in on the build!

cheers,
wade

If you've built all those things already then these mic pres will be sooo easy .They are fun to build . Report back with your review of the VP25 , I need to get one so I have all three .


I did a simple Gar2520 vs Red Dot shoot out . Let me know what you guys think and also how the mics sound .

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/7536990-post91.html

[junior]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

I did a simple Gar2520 vs Red Dot shoot out . Let me know what you guys think and also how the mics sound .

******//www.gearslutz.com/board/7536990-post91.html

I like the Red Dots, but I agree with you about the Gar maybe being good for vox/guitars... gonna' have to get a few in my next order. Thanks for posting it!

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Report back with your review of the VP25 , I need to get one so I have all three .

Alright, i finished my build last night. I've got small kids, so i have to do most of my "fun stuff" late at night, which means it takes twice as long as it ought to.

Building the preamp itself was super simple. The instructions were very clear and step by step. The only difference was the Output Volume pot now has a simplified mounting process, which is not documented in the instructions, but IS documented on the support thread on the Group DIY forum.

The OpAmp on the other hand, was a minor challenge. Not in that it's hard--it's not.....but in that there's a lot of stuff and it's very densely packed in there. It involved a lot of soldering under a magnifying glass. I need to invest in a magnifying visor.

Haven't had a whole lot of time with it yet, just some scratch vocals on a track that was already complete and i have to say that my mind was sufficiently blown. HUGE sound out of this thing. Very "weighty" tone and big sounding.....yet most definitely not dark in any way. Airy high end, but not strident or hyped. From my brief vocal test, the more i gave it, the fatter it got.

Thrilled in every way imaginable. I will most definitely be outfitting my lunchbox with more of these! I can imagine this thing absolutely killing on kick drum and electric guitar, and probably even bass DI.

I could make an album with a rack (or console) full of these and have no complaints at all.

I will be posting a build thread here later tonight.....


cheers,
wade

[Baz]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

Haven't had a whole lot of time with it yet, just some scratch vocals on a track that was already complete and i have to say that my mind was sufficiently blown. HUGE sound out of this thing. Very "weighty" tone and big sounding.....yet most definitely not dark in any way. Airy high end, but not strident or hyped. From my brief vocal test, the more i gave it, the fatter it got.

Thrilled in every way imaginable. I will most definitely be outfitting my lunchbox with more of these! I can imagine this thing absolutely killing on kick drum and electric guitar, and probably even bass DI.

I could make an album with a rack (or console) full of these and have no complaints at all.

I will be posting a build thread here later tonight.....


cheers,
wade

I will echo Wade's remarks, exactly. I posted in another thread puzzled with the 25's getting very little press around here and even moreso after recently testing them

Like Wade, all I did was a quick down and dirty test on my voice using an SM7b. But I did do a direct comparison against the the PGA2500 preamps in my FF400 (which for IC amps might be some of the more respected out there) and the difference was night and day. I especially echo his comments re the weight but w/o being dark and just a lovely extension into the top end. I've just finished treating my room and am now eager to test my U87i out through the VP25. I think this is the best value for my money in all the years I've purchased gear. $800 for a pair (I bought them pre-assembled) of mic amps of this quality is a great deal.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by Baz

I posted in another thread puzzled with the 25's getting very little press around here and even moreso after recently testing them

I saw your post about that, and also wondered why they weren't getting any real press, especially considering the buzz surrounding the VP26. I guess it's just that the 25's haven't been reviewed in TapeOp. But it was Jeff's comment about the VP25 being somewhat of a cross between the 26 and 312 that sealed the deal.

Originally Posted by Baz

Like Wade, all I did was a quick down and dirty test on my voice using an SM7b.

I used an old EV RE38 (which is one of my favorite vocal mics) and an MXL V67. Yeah, i know. V67...rolls eyes. But it was handy and I figured it could be a good guinea pig if the phantom power decided to go haywire and fry the mic. The RE38 sounded great (like it always does), but I was flat-out stunned at the V67.

Originally Posted by Baz

I think this is the best value for my money in all the years I've purchased gear. $800 for a pair (I bought them pre-assembled) of mic amps of this quality is a great deal.

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm actually going through my studio wondering what I can sell to fund another VP25 and a pair of 312's! For ~$250 per channel (plus the price of the rack), this is just insane.


cheers,
wade

[_cake]

Hey guys, I'm joining the vp26 club - i have a couple on the way

Question though - these will be going in a radial workhorse with the summing mixer, has anyone modded a vp26 to work with the pin 11 feed to the mixbuss (would like to keep the other outputs available for other use)?

Now, apologies for the following, it's just me putting down some thoughts on how this might be done (it could be as easy as i think!!)

Looking at the block diagrams of the Radial PowerPre500 and the Radial Workhorse itself...

******//www.radialeng.com/pdfs/PowerP...ide-READER.pdf
******//www.radialeng.com/pdfs/wh-usersguide.pdf

... the specifications and the pinouts for the various connections, it looks as though all i need to do is link pin 2 to pin 11 with a 4.75k resistor.

My thoughts though are -

It doesn't seem to matter if the 4.75k res is placed before or after the out trafo, if i do it on pin 2 to pin 11 i am effectively just splitting the signal (which happenss before the trafo in the Radial micpre anyway) - i guess that leads to another question -

is there a signal difference before and after the out trafo? This would determine where i need to tap pin 11 to as a signal difference would affect the level i use on the summing mixer (not that it should matter as you can go from the output of a a pre to the summing mixer by dsub)

Thanks to those who made buying this pre-amp an easier decision! any thoughts on the above are welcome!

[ElegantenSWE]

Just ordered a VP26 with the red dot DOA. Can't wait to start building it and try it out against my Daking and API 512c

[bee]

Originally Posted by jsteiger

On another note, while the above could pretty easily be done even with panning, subgroups and so on...that will be overlapping with my next project. The next will be more console type features with the same basic audio path as the VC528. It will also be hopefully a little less $$ overall. I suppose it really depends on what one wants now and where one wants to end up.

Best, Jeff

Any word on this next project you're talking about?

[Simma Lugnt]

I'm back for 500 series and wonder which VP2x would suite Bass gtr with REDDI?


Thx

[ScumBum]

My pick is VP312DI into the Missing Link .

I haven't tried the VP28 yet , that might be cool too . But I know for a fact , Bass into the VP312 is HUGE .


Check this out , ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/6722146-post3.html

[useme2305]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

I haven't tried the VP28 yet , that might be cool too . But I know for a fact , Bass into the VP312 is HUGE .

hey, which DI HI-Z Plug-In from CAPI do you use/prefer?

[Simma Lugnt]

You mean Bass straight into 312DI? I need fast pre...

I happy with REDDI but need few more dB before AD. I'm after for faster response preamp for precision playing...

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by useme2305

hey, which DI HI-Z Plug-In from CAPI do you use/prefer?

I have only used the FET1 , I have not tried the others .

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

You mean Bass right into 312DI? I need fast pre...

I happy with REDDI but need few more dB before AD. I'm after a faster response preamp for precision playing...

I would think an API style pre would be the fastest response mic pre there is . The only source EVERYBODY agrees API sounds good on is Snare , and thats because it captures the transients and attack better than any other pre , because of its fast response .

[monkeyxx]

I asked jeff this question, and he told me that the 312 was chosen to be the DI pre because his brother, who's a bass player, and he, agreed that it gave the best sound on that instrument, then the VP312DI was created, with all the different DI input modules

[Simma Lugnt]

I guess the DI of VP312DI would not hurt to have around but i'm mainly intressted in the pre only, suited best for Bass.
312 sound brigher and lighter to me...i need the weight :-)

Doesn't VP25 has the lows and is fast too?

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

I would think an API style pre would be the fastest response mic pre there is . The only source EVERYBODY agrees API sounds good on is Snare , and thats because it captures the transients and attack better than any other pre , because of its fast response .

mmmmmm. dunno about fastest.

Perhaps fastest with trannys, but I bet the Grace or Millenia people would take issue with your assessment.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

I guess the DI of VP312DI would not hurt to have around but i'm mainly intressted in the pre only, suited best for Bass.
312 sound brigher and lighter to me...i need the weight :-)

Doesn't VP25 has the lows and is fast too?

brighter and lighter yes. a pre with extreme, and nice, weight on bass DI is the SCA N72.

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

I guess the DI of VP312DI would not hurt to have around but i'm mainly intressted in the pre only, suited best for Bass.
312 sound brigher and lighter to me...i need the weight :-)

Doesn't VP25 has the lows and is fast too?

The VP25 has the same Output transformer , so it has the same amount of low end . The VP25 just has more color than the VP312 .

drbill said he tried to get a huge low end for years on kick drum using API's , then he tried a Neve and suddenly realized , WOW thats the sound !!!

You might be after the Neve sound on bass . And like Monkey suggested the SCA N72 (Neve Clone) might be the ticket . Not to say API isn't good on bass or low end stuff , its just not as big as a Neve , but Neve lacks the mids that API's have , so its just personal preference . I'm happy with the VP312 on the bass and kick , its still really phat .

[Simma Lugnt]

Thanks for tips but isn't "nevish" MA5, Great River or similar a bit slower?

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

Thanks for tips but isn't "nevish" MA5, Great River or similar a bit slower?

sounds that way to me, yeah. but for super "fastness" I think it's been implied that some of the super clean transparent pres like Millennia, GML, etc might take the cake there even over an API. I still hear a lot of transient quickness in API style preamps, but also a lot of color (which I like)

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by Simma Lugnt

Thanks for tips but isn't "nevish" MA5, Great River or similar a bit slower?

You should start a new thread asking suggestions for a fast pre . I'd like to see what people say . Maybe one of the Gearslutz nerds has a technical list measuring which mic pre is the fastest .

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Hardy preamps...plenty fast, transformer coupled.

If you want fast and clean, but aren't into the millenia thinned out thing, this is the one.

Twin servo, or M1...either will do.

My two cent.

john

edit: the thing I think people like about these capi's, is they are still fast enough, thick, and have that api "knock" to them on percussion? If that makes any sense.

I think if trying to get a big rock sound, you can actually go too fast, once again, if that makes any sense. Usually real fast doesn't cohabitate with real thick, and that's why people are always api crazy on drums. It's a good balance of the two.

One more edit:...you can always ask Jeff how to build his boards out with a Jensen and a 990 too. Or somebody else may help you with that.

I know when I talked to him he mentioned the 990 didn't sound too hot as a drop in replacement, but I'm sure there is a mod that works?

[DaKid]

Not to jump tooooo far off topic...

I purchased one of these pre-built and am thinking of getting another one to build as people have said these aren't difficult builds and I'd definitely fit in the beginner category as far as soldering.

Can anyone throw me a recommendation for a good soldering iron?

Thanks

[monkeyxx]

I prefer something like the Hakko 936 or perhaps a more or less expensive similar model

several advantages:

-Indicator light to tell you that it's on, and at the right temperature - less likely to leave it on and burn the house down

-heats up very quickly to working temperature and tells you when it's ready

-adjustable temperature. different jobs (PCB vs. guitar pots, for example, or big chassis ground wires, etc) require different temperatures. or if you're using silver bearing solder vs. lead bearing you can up the temperature a nudge as well

-replaceable tips. essential for SMD work vs standard through hole soldering. also when your tip wears out, you can put on a new one instead of having to buy a whole new soldering iron. the whole pen/hand tool part is replaceable too if you break that


you can find things like these on Amazon.com and eBay for good prices. I bought the Hakko because it is a good value, and I am value conscious. You pay more for the name brands like Weller or etc.

[johndykstra]

I LOVE mine! For all the reasons monkey mentioned above.

Weller WES51 | ESD-Safe Soldering/Rework Stations

it comes with a tip I'd consider rather clunky for PCB work. Get a tiny one right away and keep the stock one for cables.

[DaKid]

Excuse my lack of knowledge with all these... I worked with soldering irons years ago and was not very good haha....

What size tip should I be looking at for something like the VP26?

I should be buying a desoldering iron also, correct?

Thank you both!

[EDIT]

And is there a certain type of solder I should get?

[monkeyxx]

lead bearing solder has lead in it, you need to wash your face and hands after using it before doing anything else

silver bearing solder is harder to work with it melts at a slightly higher temperature, but No Lead!, the fumes are slightly worse, though, and "tin whiskers" could form after some years

open a window and turn on a fan with either one. use something sort of small like maybe a .032" diameter solder

any sort of medium-ish tip should be fine. I don't think the shape of the point is too much of a concern

you can desolder with a desoldering pump and desoldering braid. it works well enough for most things like on a VP26. if you want to get really fancy though you can get one of those fancy vacuum guns, I wish I had one. if you do everything right the first time you won't need to desolder anything, but it's good to be prepared