Is the API VP26 right for me?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

These plate-through-hole boards make desoldering very difficult.

Sounds like you're speaking from experience Ben......

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

...These plate-through-hole boards make desoldering very difficult.

What tool did you use for desoldering Ben?

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by drBill

Sounds like you're speaking from experience Ben......

Yep. Accidentally switched the 139 and 140 in the GAR2520, and one of the legs bent on the trim pot, and I didn't catch it until I'd already soldered 4 of the legs.

Originally Posted by vin-gear

What tool did you use for desoldering Ben?

Copper braid! I'm sure if I had a desoldering gun, it'd have been a snap.

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

Yep. Accidentally switched the 139 and 140 in the GAR2520, and one of the legs bent on the trim pot, and I didn't catch it until I'd already soldered 4 of the legs.





Copper braid! I'm sure if I had a desoldering gun, it'd have been a snap.

Things do happen.

If you continue on the long and winding road of DIY pro audio, I would highly recommend a nice Hakko 808 desoldering tool.
[IMG]******//www.hakkousa.com/AHPDirect/images/808.jpg[/IMG]
They are not too expensive but well worth it. You may actually find yourself messing things up on purpose...just so you can desolder them!

[dandeurloo]

great jeff another things to add to my list of things to buy.

thanks again.

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by drBill

Nice Jeff! That shows me exactly what I needed to see. Those look sweet. Two vp-312DI's - next on my list. Need another lunchbox,,,,,,


Hey, you know what would be fun Jeff?? Spec-ing those backlit toggles that Scott LaChapell uses on his 500 series pre's. I'm going to look for a picture.....

[Edit] - snapped a shot with my phone. I don't know if they would fit, but they would be tre cool. Scott has stated that they are very durable (I was initially sceptical, but they seem fine). The sexy factor is totally off the hook though. Especially if they had DIFFERENT colored backlighting.

Just a thought.....

Bill you son-of-a-gun you! Those are the same, exact brand (NKK) and series (G) sub-mini toggles that I am using on the VP312DI. I really like the switches themselves. They are pretty solid for being so darned small. I bet in person they look killer all lit up! Boy, if I didn't have a load of stock, I would surely consider making a revision. Off the top of my head, it would require reworking the DI board and probably the main board too.

[img]******//www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/gallery/VP312DI-build/3_NKK/2_NKK.gif[/img]

FWIW, the LED tipped ones (like Scott uses on the 992) would work a treat for the phantom on the VP26 or VP312. They are a little costly but readily available. Scott must mount them to a sub panel behind the faceplate so the nut is hidden. That would not be the case with the metal already set up for a standard panel mounting. The LED's on the tips look very cool too. I had a 992EG in here for a while.

Hmmm...food for thought indeed.

Cheers, Jeff

[drBill]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

Bill you son-of-a-gun you! Those are the same, exact brand (NKK) and series (G) sub-mini toggles that I am using on the VP312DI. I really like the switches themselves. They are pretty solid for being so darned small. I bet in person they look killer all lit up! Boy, if I didn't have a load of stock, I would surely consider making a revision. Off the top of my head, it would require reworking the DI board and probably the main board too.

[img]******//www.classicapi.com/catalog/images/gallery/VP312DI-build/3_NKK/2_NKK.gif[/img]

FWIW, the LED tipped ones (like Scott uses on the 992) would work a treat for the phantom on the VP26 or VP312. They are a little costly but readily available. Scott must mount them to a sub panel behind the faceplate so the nut is hidden. That would not be the case with the metal already set up for a standard panel mounting. The LED's on the tips look very cool too. I had a 992EG in here for a while.

Hmmm...food for thought indeed.

Cheers, Jeff

I'd consider it Jeff. I know it would get me going!!! I don't think anyone would mind paying a few extra bucks and soldering a few extra joints for a killer looking set of backlit switches. Seriously though, with a couple different color LED's your pre would go from being an outstanding sounding pre, to a full tilt supermodel pre. And you know that every musician and producer wants to date a supermodel!! thumbsup

[ben_allison]

Want back lit switches. I'd love to have these kind, for the phase/pad/mute switches.

And maybe the phantom too, so I know it's on.

[IMG]******//www.vintageking.com/core/media/media.nl?id=53839&c=360669&h=379b9dad67d332787c9b[/IMG]

[IMG]******//www.vintageking.com/core/media/media.nl?id=52795&c=360669&h=aa608c564df42889ced5[/IMG]

I can haz?

[Tone Laborer]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

Now... building something like the GAR2520... that's a different story. It's not hard per se, but the components are really close together, and a lot of them are easy to damage with too much heat.

Yeah, I gotta give you guys credit for DIYing your op amp. Too tiny for my old eyes. It looks like it would be really tedious if not piss you off difficult. Not one for the first timer with their Radio Shack soldering gun.)

One "tool" I came up with was a mic stand with boom and universal spring mic clip. It held a magnifying glass perfectly and was adjustable. Indispensible for me.

I agree though, it was a fun project. I'm saving to build another.

[TAVD]

DIY a 990 opamp first and the GAR2520 seems easy.

[Tone Laborer]

I think I'd let John build that one. Just looking at the SL Red Dot I bought--money well spent!

Lights? We don't need no stinkin lights.

[monkeyxx]

I'm less a fan of the light up button switches, I'd rather see differently colored LEDs off to the side of the switches, a la API. The glowing buttons look a little silly, to me, esp. considering the "vintage" vibe of these things (for a module that took this futuristic look way too far, check out the FiveFish)

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

I'm less a fan of the light up button switches, I'd rather see differently colored LEDs off to the side of the switches, a la API. The glowing buttons look a little silly, to me, esp. considering the "vintage" vibe of these things (for a module that took this futuristic look way too far, check out the FiveFish)

[IMG]******//fivefishstudios.com/images/stories/X72mk500/X72mk500-Lights-1.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry, but that looks badass. The Five Fish panel graphics are super slick.

Might not match the decidedly vintage approach of Classic API, but that's fine; to each their own!

[monkeyxx]

yeah to each his own, I guess!

maybe it's just those knobs I don't like...

[monkeyxx]

in case you haven't found it, I thought this post from another VP26 thread was really great and pretty much sums up the whole thing for me

Originally Posted by vin-gear

Hey Bill,

I will do my best to describe the sonic differences but please keep in mind...it is only my opinion. I will throw in a little VP2x vs 312 too and cover all bases.

I have chosen to replicate the vintage console preamp over a straight up 312 clone for a few reasons. Mostly, I really love they way the old consoles sound! They for sure have a more distinct "tonal" footprint to them. The 312 is a bit more open and almost cleaner sounding compared to a VP26. That may be hard to believe with all the "mid-forward", "mid-aggressive" adjectives used to describe the coveted 312 sound. "Clean" is usually not one of them. Well, the VP26 has just a little more of that "it" sound, if you will. Even though they are not as open, they for sure do not sound dark when comparing the top. Similar, just not quite as "open". The bottom end on the VP26 is a bit tighter...maybe more round than a 312. It is subtle though. They are the most different in the mids though I think. The VP26 is very tight and focused while being even more forward and aggressive sounding but only in the bestest of ways. They have a unique and special character there that is not present in other preamps that I have heard. The VP26 output transformer can be driven hard with a nice, pleasing, gentle saturation. That will happen with a 2623-1 before it will with a 2503. Again, it's my opinion but I think there are other ears out there that can verify some of these same findings.

Contrary to some of the popular talk, the discrete opamps make quite a noticeable difference in these preamps. My favorites are the gar2520 and a Liebers' SL2520 red dot. Scott's red dots have a great, amazing detail thingy happening in the upper mid area while the gar2520 is a little smoother and more "creamy" sounding. Both of course retain the great mid-forward sound you would expect.

OK that being said, if a VP26 is 9:00 and a 312 is 3:00, I would put the VP25 in the 11:00 area. It has many of the same tonal signatures as a VP26 but a little more open sounding.

Those were some sonics. What other advantages does a VP26 have over a VP25? Well, a lower price for one thing which is very important these days. The 2623-1 has 2 secondary windings while the 2503 has 3. How many of these secondary windings are used in any 312 style preamp? Always only 2. They are wired in series for 6db of transformer step-up gain. The 3rd winding is used for nothing. Kinda like paying for something that will never be used. The eq's do use all 3 windings in series, BTW. Why not save a little money? How's that for an "up-sale"?


The price is very key Bill and I have no plans of changing it in the near future. I do not have the same types of overhead as some of the big boys. That is a plus to my customers. I suppose you could say it is still the age of the boutique manufacturer? I do want to make sure that everybody knows, there is not a cheap, "cut the corners" part in these things.

I hope this all helps in some way.

Cheers, Jeff

[teachingking]

Thanks for posting that. My kits (VP26 and VP312) should be arriving tomorrow. I can't wait!!!!

[jsteiger]

Owel's (FiveFish) product line has it's own unique look so he should be complimented for that. thumbsup

As for my stuff, I have always wanted to portray that "old vintage" look. Bullet switches like were found on my console and so on. No room for fish-eyes there. I want them to look like they sound..."old".

That being said, maybe we leave the lighted pushbuttons to Owel and the lighted toggles to Scott.

Best, Jeff

[johndykstra]

Hey Jeff,

The group d.i.y. racks (gdiy511) look interesting. I'd be interested for more info on where to obtain the plans and pieces, but like some others here, I don't have a ton of electronics experience. What's your thoughts on the experience needed to take on building one of these enclosures?

Thanks,

John

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

That being said, maybe we leave the lighted pushbuttons to Owel and the lighted toggles to Scott.

Hey Jeff, I too am interested in the rack... is there and entire kit? External PSU?

I have the two-slot 500HR right now, but I foresee several more VP26's in my future...

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Hey Jeff,

The group d.i.y. racks (gdiy511) look interesting. I'd be interested for more info on where to obtain the plans and pieces, but like some others here, I don't have a ton of electronics experience. What's your thoughts on the experience needed to take on building one of these enclosures?

Thanks,

John

John, they are very easy to build. That is MHO. If you can solder and have some decent mechanical assembly skills, the rack itself will be a breeze. The PSU is a little more involved. Not hard, just more to it. If you have a couple of my kits under your belt, you should be able to handle it with no problem. We have also had guys buy the rack from us and the PSU from Brent & company.

Hey Jeff, I too am interested in the rack... is there and entire kit? External PSU?

If you visit this thread at Prodigy, you will find all pricing and ordering steps. All North American orders will filter to me. Keep in mind, the PSU is not cheap. But, it will power more modules than any other 500 series PSU on the market, from our research.

Cheers, Jeff

[morchid]

Well, payday is coming this week. Looks like I'm gonna be giving this build a go. Hoping for a better outcome than this: YouTube - the simpsons - homer and the bbq ,

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by vin-gear

John, they are very easy to build. That is MHO. If you can solder and have some decent mechanical assembly skills, the rack itself will be a breeze. The PSU is a little more involved. Not hard, just more to it. If you have a couple of my kits under your belt, you should be able to handle it with no problem. We have also had guys buy the rack from us and the PSU from Brent & company.

If you visit this thread at Prodigy, you will find all pricing and ordering steps. All North American orders will filter to me. Keep in mind, the PSU is not cheap. But, it will power more modules than any other 500 series PSU on the market, from our research.

Cheers, Jeff

how much does the whole rig (PSU and rack) cost in all, in the end, all told? are they currently available? I've been confused about this project, but intrigued

[tapehiss]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

Sorry, but that looks badass. The Five Fish panel graphics are super slick.

+1

I love the FiveFish look and price... New EQ looks like the business.

I'd love to try the VP26.... but from the site, it appears they no longer sell assembled version. (I don't solder)

I also like the notion mentioned by Vin-Gear of leaving current designs to their current manufacturers.... Design decisions are something a manufacturer has control over, and asking them to change their style to look more like another's ...... Well......... When you design your own piece, you can make it look like anything you want. And until then, get your damn hands out of the proverbial cookie jar.

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

how much does the whole rig (PSU and rack) cost in all, in the end, all told? are they currently available? I've been confused about this project, but intrigued

I'm interested too; total costs + sweat equity = still cheaper than buying a used rack?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by tapehiss

I also like the notion mentioned by Vin-Gear of leaving current designs to their current manufacturers.... Design decisions are something a manufacturer has control over, and asking them to change their style to look more like another's ...... Well......... When you design your own piece, you can make it look like anything you want. And until then, get your damn hands out of the proverbial cookie jar.

Hey man, no reason to take the whole conversation south. It's all in good fun. This thread has been devoid of the typical GS drama. Let's try to keep it that way. thumbsup

Originally Posted by ben_allison

I'm interested too; total costs + sweat equity = still cheaper than buying a used rack?

From what I could tell (it's pretty confusing so I could be wrong), it would cost more in parts than what you can buy a 500V for new. I know the PS is better, and has higher voltage rails, but I don't need the higher voltage rails with my existing pre's (vp26's excluded.). I'm thinking of reworking a console PS - pulling it down to +/- 16v and using that to power all my racks.

[tapehiss]

Originally Posted by drBill

Hey man, no reason to take the whole conversation south. It's all in good fun. This thread has been devoid of the typical GS drama. Let's try to keep it that way. thumbsup

Take the conversation south????

okay.... By all means.... Voice your opinion and I'll keep my opinion quiet, so I don't ruin the positive momentum. And the "typical GS drama" was brought up the second you said my opinion (since it was contrary to your own) takes "the whole conversation south".

Also, did anyone else notice he used the "south" as an analogy for "negative"........ that's just offensive!

[ben_allison]

Originally Posted by tapehiss

Also, did anyone else notice he used the "south" as an analogy for "negative"........ that's just offensive!

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by tapehiss

...New EQ looks like the business.

Yes, I would agree with this for sure. thumbsup

I'd love to try the VP26.... but from the site, it appears they no longer sell assembled version. (I don't solder)

This is only temporary. I need to slow down the production on these to give me time to finish a few other things. One was the VP312DI which I am pretty much done with. The other is a brand new & unique 500/51x module that I will hopefully order prototype boards for today. That being said, I will turn the "buy" button back on for the built and tested VP26's rather soon here.

Cheers, Jeff

[teachingking]

Details please on the "brand new & unique 500/51x module"!

[dandeurloo]

Originally Posted by teachingking

Details please on the "brand new & unique 500/51x module"!

Yes, I can't wait!

Also, I have built the 51x rack.. Man it is great! it is about as much as a normal 10 spacer with just parts but way better power supply and more options for 24 volts.

It is a pretty easy build as well. The rack is super easy the power supply you should be careful and take your time with. Mine worked right away. That is not the case with everything I build. Hahaha