Is the API VP26 right for me?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by pan60

very nice pre and very well worth giving a go!

And so I did!! I've got 3 vp26's sitting on my tech's bench as I type. Hopefully I'll get them sometime this week.

[emfrank72]

I have 4 VP26s and couldn't be happier. I originally purchased them to replace my SSL preamps on the toms and figured they'd be a good value for the price. I was surprised to find that they were in my top 4 preamps when doing a tom shootout. When I mean in the top 4, I mean that I liked the sound of 4 different Pres and that not one was necessarily any better than another, just different.

A couple of months later, on a whim, I decided to try it on electric guitar instead of my 512C just to see how it would compare. As far as I was concerned, it blew away the 512C and I couldn't imagine using a different Preamp for electric guitar. I have tried them on vocals and acoustic guitar and wasn't as impressed but maybe just need to keep experimenting.

If I were starting all over, I would just get 8-10 of these and then a few different pres for different flavors. Also, I am no expert with a soldering iron but these were relatively easy to build. My buddy down the street decided to go with the SCA pres and I couldn't believe how many parts there were. My only complaint would be that I wish the attenuator knob wasn't so stiff. Also I have 2 red dot and 2 GAR 2520s and like them both.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by drBill

And so I did!! I've got 3 vp26's sitting on my tech's bench as I type. Hopefully I'll get them sometime this week.

keep us posted, these things sound greta!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by emfrank72

Also I have 2 red dot and 2 GAR 2520s and like them both.

Can you give us your thoughts on those? I bought red dots, and that's what I'm putting in first. When the gar's get built, then I'll drop them in as well and give a listen. Interested in your thoughts about what you perceive the differences as.

Cheers,

Oh, and BTW Jeff, my tech had nothing but GREAT things to say about the layout and design. And he's beyond human in his sense of meticulous. Good stuff.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by drBill

Can you give us your thoughts on those? I bought red dots, and that's what I'm putting in first. When the gar's get built, then I'll drop them in as well and give a listen. Interested in your thoughts about what you perceive the differences as.

I was going to ask the same thing...haven't been able to order a red dot yet for comparisons.

also curious, since you mentioned it, what your other pres would be if you were starting over, what would be the ones besides the VP26 you'd personally choose for variety? I'm working on honing in a small variety myself. I guess it's subjective, I'm just curious how other people go about it

[teachingking]

monkeyxx,

I see you've got some SCA stuff. Do you have an A12, and if so, how does the VP26 compare?

[monkeyxx]

I do plan to make that comparison, but as of right now I'm just getting started and haven't been able to try an A12, yet. For the record, someone mentioned earlier the T15, I wasn't terribly impressed with that module, just seemed sort of bland. I'd say the VP26 has a similar utility, but with just a nicer overall sound. The N72 is very specific sounding, with a lot of coloration and that thick squishy type of sound, but with good definition and clarity. The C84 I like better than the T15, I haven't used it extensively but so far, it's very clean and detailed sounding, sort of "lightweight" in presentation, with a nice glossy sheen to it. Not rough and raw like a sytek (we're talking about subtle character difference here!), but still with good transient clarity like the sytek. The sytek was a really good rock-n-roll preamp on drums, and sometimes acoustic or electric guitar, for me. The T15 just came off as a bit "dull" to me, to my ears. Not as "fast" as the sytek or C84. The C84 makes a really good bass DI with a passive jensen transformer equipped direct box (Radial JDI Duplex, here). I'm wanting to try an active DI with passive pickup instruments with my other pres, hoping for a little more clarity with the N72 for example, using a vintage style bass.

[drBill]

As long as we're on the comparisons thing, I'd love to hear Jeff's (or anyone else who has all 3) thoughts on the differences between the :

vp-26
vp-25
vp-312/312DI

I've heard Jeff's thoughts on the 25 vs 26 in the past, but that was before he added the 312's to the lineup.

Anyone?

[monkeyxx]

maybe Jeff can chime in additionally, but here's what he said to me when I asked the same question. Seems to be focusing mostly on drum duty, I'd be curious about other applications as well, but, a good overview, generally. Might be helpful to you.

Hi Dan,

I will try to explain some of the differences a little.

The VP312 is very big and aggressive in the standard API fashion. Also more open sounding than the others I carry. So, it is the least colored pre I have but actually more old API sounding than anything currently in production from previously mentioned company (3124).

The VP26 is the most colored. Mostly because of the circuit but also due to the smaller 2623-1 output tranny. This pre oozes of that fantastic in your face aggressiveness that we all love API preamps for. The low mids are tight and focused...like a fist.

The VP25 falls somewhere in between the VP26 and the VP312. It is a little more open sounding than a VP26 and more colored than a VP312. The circuit is identical to a VP26 except for the larger 2503 output. The VP26 sounds slightly more compressed in comparison, in the greatest of ways.

From customers reactions and my findings, the VP312 is hard to beat for OH and room mics. Big, fantastic detail. The VP26 for all toms. Kick and snare are split between VP25 and VP26. I prefer the VP26 myself for kick and snare. Vocals are an even mix between all 3, voice/genre dependent.

I hope this helps in some way.

Best regards, Jeff Steiger
Classic Audio Products of Illinois
Classic Audio Products of Illinois

[drBill]

Cool. That was helpful. Sounds like I might need one more vp-26 and a couple vp-312's. thumbsup

[teachingking]

This was Jeff's reply when I asked him to compare the three. I was specifically asking about recording acoustic guitar and vocals, so keep that in mind.

The VP312 will give you the biggest, most round tone of the 3 preamps. The circuit is about as simple as it gets. It's essentially input tranny, discrete opamp and output tranny. Nice, big, open while still being aggressive in that great API way.

The VP26 is a little "meaner" sounding. The bottom is big but tighter and more focused sounding. The same can be said for the low mids. Tight like a fist. The smaller 2623-1 output tranny compresses slightly in a very nice and appealing way. It is a great sound but this may not be what you are after for your specific, mentioned requirements.

The VP25 falls somewhere in the midst of the VP26 and the VP312.

[teachingking]

monkeyxx,

Forgot to ask which opamp you were using in the clip you posted. I thought it sounded fantastic.

Thanks,
Aaron

[dandeurloo]

I have the vp26's and vp312's. I haven't heard the vp25's but I bet they are great.

As far as the difference to me. I hear the same kind of things as already stated. The 312's sound very big and open. Plenty of clarity and detail and power. I like it on vocals alot.

The vp26 is very detailed but maybe a little thicker sounding due to the tranny. This preamp is amazing on guitars and drums and some vocals.

To my ears, any version of these would sound better then current API models. The current API stuff has to much of a brittle hash sound that I don't like. I also like the Classic API pres better then my SCA A12's. Must be the 600 ohm attenuator or the iron? probably both.

I also like the N72's a lot. I like that pre better then my x81 pre. But thats a different set of sound! Syteks worked for me for a little while but they are gone now. To many other great pres around.

BTW, Drbill I enjoyed you ribbon mic shot out! Thanks for that.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by teachingking

monkeyxx,

Forgot to ask which opamp you were using in the clip you posted. I thought it sounded fantastic.

Thanks,
Aaron

thanks!! I like the vibe, too. That was with the GAR2520 in both VP26.

trying to get off my ass, today, and put together the VP312, which I'm predicting I might like more for my vocals, like dandeurloo

[teachingking]

Interesting. I actually think I preferred the gar2520 in the shootout posted on this site. I hear a lot about the red dot, but now I don't know. I'm ordering soon, maybe tomorrow. Tough choice.

[drBill]

Good stuff guys, thanks.

Thanks for the kind words dan. You're the second person today who mentioned the ribbon shootout to me. I might need to go back and bump that thread.......I think it's way back in the archives now.

Hey, does anyone have a pic or a link to the vp-312DI? I'd like to see the front panel layout.

Thx.

bp

[jsteiger]

Originally Posted by drBill

...Hey, does anyone have a pic or a link to the vp-312DI? I'd like to see the front panel layout.

Thx.

bp

Hey Bill,

I haven't had the time to publish assembled pics but I do have these.







I also have a build/support thread at Prodigy with a lot of close details pics. That can be found here.

Cheers, Jeff

[drBill]

Nice Jeff! That shows me exactly what I needed to see. Those look sweet. Two vp-312DI's - next on my list. Need another lunchbox,,,,,,


Hey, you know what would be fun Jeff?? Spec-ing those backlit toggles that Scott LaChapell uses on his 500 series pre's. I'm going to look for a picture.....

[Edit] - snapped a shot with my phone. I don't know if they would fit, but they would be tre cool. Scott has stated that they are very durable (I was initially sceptical, but they seem fine). The sexy factor is totally off the hook though. Especially if they had DIFFERENT colored backlighting.

Just a thought.....

[dandeurloo]

I hear ya.. I need two of those 312's with DI's and another lunch box. Dangit not more gear.


I am a huge fan of the SL red dots for preamps. I like the blue dots for eq's and summing sections. The gars sound good as well I just happen to like how the red dots stack up in tracks. Something about it that works for me.

[monkeyxx]

well shoot, sign me up for two VP3124DI as well... those look really sweet, and I like having different DIs around. the phantom LED is a nice addition, too. From the classic API product description of the 312DI "The LED does allow the voltage stored in the phantom capacitor to quickly drain thru this LED." On my VP26 the voltage takes probably over a minute to fully discharge. Might not be so good with ribbons around.

I'm also convinced at this point I need to give the SL red dots a try.

[emfrank72]

Originally Posted by drBill

Can you give us your thoughts on those? I bought red dots, and that's what I'm putting in first. When the gar's get built, then I'll drop them in as well and give a listen. Interested in your thoughts about what you perceive the differences.

This may sound stupid, but when I put them in the rack, I didn't keep track of which ones are which. It may be unslutty of me but when I got my second pair with the gars, I didn't do a true comparison with the red dots. I just grabed a 58 and just talked through both and didn't notice much difference but it was a quick test more to make sure that they were working. I haven't noticed much a difference between the two in the rack because they are always on different things. For example, tom 1 and 2 or 2 different mics on a guitar cab. Tomorrow, if I get some spare time, I'll compare them. It might be fun to guess where they are based on the sound and check later.

[emfrank72]

Originally Posted by monkeyxx

I was going to ask the same thing...haven't been able to order a red dot yet for comparisons.

also curious, since you mentioned it, what your other pres would be if you were starting over, what would be the ones besides the VP26 you'd personally choose for variety? I'm working on honing in a small variety myself. I guess it's subjective, I'm just curious how other people go about it

Good question. As I have built up my studio, I have tried a lot of different things and paired up the ones that I liked. The problem for me is that having too many choices can be a curse because you wonder if maybe a different mic/pre combo might be better for the source. After a while of obsessing over different shootouts I hit a point where I almost don't care and will try different combos just to see how the end product will turn out. If I hear something I don't like, I change it or don't use it the next time around. Also, most of my clients would rather spend time tracking over trying different mic pres.

If I was to go with all 500 series pres, I would go with 8 VP26, 4 MA5, 2 P1s, 2 512c, 2 great rivers, 4 Grace pres. I might increase some quantities to end up with a total of 24. I am also sticking to pres that I have and would be glad to buy again. I might be willing to skip the P1s if I could find something else that I liked on OHs. A couple of pres that I probably not get a second time around would be the Biz and the Juggernaught. Not that they aren't good, it is just that I always prefer something else to them. I would also be interested in trying the new 312 from Jeff which I didn't know about until this thread. I have one more space in my 500 rack that is needing something and it was sure fun assembling the VP26s.

[dandeurloo]

Jeff's 312's are great on OH's. I also like my J99's for overheads but the 312's have a little more magic to me. You should try those sometime.

The J99's are nice however.

[morchid]

Don't want to hijack but can anyone comment on the difficulty building a vp26 for someone with no experience. I've been looking at these for awhile but the possibility of f-ing up the build has kept me from pulling the trigger. The guide makes it look easy enough (famous last words).

[emfrank72]

I had never built anything like this and was quite nervous myself. Most of my past solder experience was fixing or making cables. I do have a friend that used to own a electronics repair shop that gave me a quick lesson is how to fill and then solder a circuit board and then left me on my own and the first one turned out great. On the second one, I forgot to attach the front plate when aligning the input knob to the circuit board and when I put it together the push buttons where rubbing. I ordered a new input attentuator, removed the old one and the second one worked great. The first two were assembled before the step by step directions were available. The second two I built with the new directions and it couldn't be easier. I actually learned better ways of assembling a couple of the components than I used on the first 2 that would have simplified things a bit. I think these make a great first DUY project. A friend of mine got a couple of SCA preamps and those seem to have 2-3 times as many small parts to solder to circuit board. I had a blast assembling these and look forward to building something else in the future. A good soldering iron helps.

[morchid]

Thanks for the perspective. Think I'm gonna jump in with my next paycheck. If all goes well I've got 3 spaces left to fill in my lunchbox

[pan60]

Originally Posted by morchid

Don't want to hijack but can anyone comment on the difficulty building a vp26 for someone with no experience. I've been looking at these for awhile but the possibility of f-ing up the build has kept me from pulling the trigger. The guide makes it look easy enough (famous last words).

or get one that is ready to go: )~

Classic Audio Products of Illinois

[Tone Laborer]

Before I started the VP26 build I finally upgraded my $25 weller soldering pencil and got a Hakko soldering station. I'm glad I did, I wouldn't have wanted to attempt the project with the old pencil. It was like going from a Behringer to a GML. I took my time over several evenings and double checked components and positions and mine worked perfect right off the bench.

Other than a few decades of general soldering, my only other soldering experience with pcbs was this; hours of fun, but just doesn't sound as good.

[monkeyxx]

Originally Posted by morchid

Don't want to hijack but can anyone comment on the difficulty building a vp26 for someone with no experience. I've been looking at these for awhile but the possibility of f-ing up the build has kept me from pulling the trigger. The guide makes it look easy enough (famous last words).

I'd say go for it. My main tips (from past mistakes) would be, make sure polarized components are oriented correctly (double check), don't overheat transistors! (none in a VP, but if you build a discrete op amp there will be many) or any component I guess, but transistors and ICs for some reason strike me as the most delicate. be careful with ICs, use a good clean soldering iron with a good tip, don't cut your transformer leads too short! a LEAD BENDER is crucial for installing resistors, and i recommend a panavise and all the usual hand tools as well. it's also a really good idea to have a fan-ventilated work area so you don't have to breathe fumes (can give you a splitting headache for one thing, who knows what else). hemostats, locking hemostats, have come in handy in just about every project I've done like this. they can clip things for you and also act as tiny needle-nose pliers (great for getting transformer leads into thru holes, for example). The hakko irons are nice, I have one now too, but I accomplished a lot with a cheap radio shack iron before I had it--even DOAs. Use thin solder, study up and implement "from the top" and then "touch up from the back" soldering like Jeff recommends.

You should be fine. These circuits are so simple, so few parts, such a nice PCB, that success is very likely and troubleshooting is simpler than it could be for other DIY kits/projects. Jeff's helpful too if you have questions. I also agree that the SCA kits are a little more complicated, but they are nice too and fun to build.

[ben_allison]

The VP26 is a SUPER fun and easy build!

Jeff did a killer job with the boards, and has VERY easy to follow instructions. If you've ever made a pedal or any kind of circuit, the VP26 will be a breeze. The PCB is just a dream to solder with.

Now... building something like the GAR2520... that's a different story. It's not hard per se, but the components are really close together, and a lot of them are easy to damage with too much heat.

MAKE SURE YOU TRIPLE CHECK YOUR COMPONENTS BEFORE SOLDERING. These plate-through-hole boards make desoldering very difficult.