Sony DMX-R100, Still a buy?

[TML Hautzy]

Hey all,
Perhaps a silly question, but... Is the r100 still a viable recording desk. I am about to build out a new recording studio with my business partner and I have been thinking about getting this board. I understand from other threads here on GS that the support from Sony has either ended already or will end soon. Some of my major concerns are...
1. some of the boards for sale are v1, can I still get v2 discs anywhere, if so how much?
2. how long can I expect to get by without buying a second board for parts.

I appreciate any input you guys may have. Maybe there is a better console out there, but i havent found it yet, at least not for the price. As soon as the investors are out of the game, I want to get an AWS+se

[eleo]

My dmx is still working like a horse.
Sound and flexibility are indispensable for me,
still a great console even though Sony dropped support.

But yes, it will be replaced at some time :(

[TSM]

Originally Posted by eleo

My dmx is still working like a horse.

Mine too. Sounds FANTATIC for a digital desk.

[Omega Arts]

How much are they asking for the R-100.
I've got the software update if you need a copy.
Larry

[TML Hautzy]

Currently the desk is going for 4,500 - 6,000 depending on location and upgrades. I would love to snag a copy of your upgrade discs, thanks for the offer. I am glad some r100's out there have been working for 10+ years, that is reassuring.

[drew]

$4500-6000 seems high IMO. I owned one from 2001-2004. Sold just after Sony announced they were getting out of Pro Audio. Paid $13500 for it brand new and sold it for $9500 and felt damn good about it. Six years later and I'd NEVER pay $6k for a basically unsupported piece.

Cool desk nonetheless, as dig consoles go. For me though, if I'm gonna mix digital, might as well be a DAW.

[Omega Arts]

I can tell you mixing through the R-100 sounds different than mixing in the box.
I have done and still do both.
Maybe it's because I use some of the EQ and comp on the 100 when I use it.
It's almost to smooth and round sounding for some heavier stuff but M Wagner has used it on many metal type mixes.
Great board though.
Having said all that, (if) mine ever quits I'll go back to an analog board.
Larry

PM me your address and I'll send you a copy of the soft upgrade.thumbsup

[Minglewood]

Hi GC and all,
I recall seeing a post on the yahoo dmx group recently that Sony is going to continue support thru 2012!!!! Parts are still available.

I highly recommend joining up as this is THE place for dmx users. There are downloadable files, manuals and posts from a slew of well informed users. There has just been a discussion of V1 & V2 upgrades. Here's the link:

dmxr100usersgroup : DMX-R100 Users Group

Join up and all will become clear, or as clear as a manual from a Japanese company that spared no cut corners to create an undigestable and inscrutable operating manual that would probably be best read and understood if translated BACK to Japanese.

Sorry 'bout that, but I feel better now. And I love my DMX!
Bill

[Bassmankr]

I went the large frame analog desk route but when looking at options a while ago it seemed to me that if someone went with the Sony DMX digital desk they should get the MADI card option with it for better integration with a DAW (just using the DAW as a tape desk and for editing). From what I remember it was tough to just pick up the MADI card, it may be a better option to seek out a desk that has it already.

[MIKEHARRIS]

the touch screen was @ $1600 to replace....the console sounded great...just gettin wayy past its sell by date.

The MADI card was introduced late in the products life...dont know how many were shipped.

[TML Hautzy]

Thanks for the input guys. I had originally speced an A&H GL for the console with high end converters, but when i saw the r100 at 5k, i thought i could get same quality conversion plus automation plus oxford dynamics for the same price. I see however that in a pro enviroment that support is key, and maybe 5k is too much to pay, even though I believe that the desk in working order is easily worth the money.

Keep the feedback coming, i would love to get Mr. Wagner's take on this...

[drew]

Originally Posted by G.C. Hautzy

Keep the feedback coming, i would love to get Mr. Wagner's take on this...

Well, if actions speak louder than words, he sold his and replaced them with an AWS900 when he could have easily kept using them.

[mwagener]

I got my 2 DMXs in 2000 and they worked flawlessly for 8 years, minus one minor replacement of the driver card for the screen light ($135.00, did it myself). I also bought a 3rd console in 2007, which was meant for parts, but aside from the previous owner being a smoker, it worked fine, just smelled a bit. I sold all three consoles in 2008 and all three died within a year after I sold them. Now, I don't know if the shipping or transport had something to do with it, but the defects where severe enough that the consoles had to be sent to the Sony service center for repair. I've also heard from a few other users (nothing to do with my consoles) that they had severe problems with the console locking up a few minutes after they switched it on.

I always loved the flexibility of the console, especially with the MADI card, wich was released around 2002. When it was time for building the new studio, i did some extensive tests with digital and analog summing. One of the test was a mix inside Nuendo (Mix Bus) and the same mix (aligned faders with tones etc.) through the DMX. The two mixes nulled completely, there was no audible or measurable difference. Not so with the analog summing, which led me to buy the AWS, but that is a whole different thread.

I personally would be scared to buy a used DMX and make it the heart of my stdio today, and sound-wise I would highly recommend analog summing over the DMX.

[Tube World]

The Sony board was good when it came out and version 2 made it more appealing. However it lacks a lot of I/O that the Yamaha 02R96 offers that I would not recommend the Sony. Yes it's Eq is great but you can buy the same Eq as a plug in and now you can use it at higher sample rates. Sound on Sound magazine has a great in depth review of the Sony, version 2 software update as well. But when you read the review of the o2R96 ( and later on the updated version 2 software with better control with DAW's and improved effects) the Sony is outdated and out classed. Yes it still is a great board but the Yamaha offers so much more. In the top of my head, recording up to 96, more aux, reverb (great sounding reverb with version 2) comps, Eq, delays, bread and butter effects), a Yamaha mixer screen on your monitor, sync with your Daw including being a good controller and there is about 10 other things I am missing, Yamaha wins. The Sony cannot handle higher sample rates, and all the cards the Yanaha offers for connections and Waves effects it lacks too.

[drew]

Originally Posted by mwagener

I got my 2 DMXs in 2000 and they worked flawlessly for 8 years, minus one minor replacement of the driver card for the screen light ($135.00, did it myself). I also bought a 3rd console in 2007, which was meant for parts, but aside from the previous owner being a smoker, it worked fine, just smelled a bit. I sold all three consoles in 2008 and all three died within a year after I sold them. Now, I don't know if the shipping or transport had something to do with it, but the defects where severe enough that the consoles had to be sent to the Sony service center for repair. I've also heard from a few other users (nothing to do with my consoles) that they had severe problems with the console locking up a few minutes after they switched it on.

I always loved the flexibility of the console, especially with the MADI card, wich was released around 2002. When it was time for building the new studio, i did some extensive tests with digital and analog summing. One of the test was a mix inside Nuendo (Mix Bus) and the same mix (aligned faders with tones etc.) through the DMX. The two mixes nulled completely, there was no audible or measurable difference. Not so with the analog summing, which led me to buy the AWS, but that is a whole different thread.

I personally would be scared to buy a used DMX and make it the heart of my stdio today, and sound-wise I would highly recommend analog summing over the DMX.

Similar thing happened to mine not long after I sold it. Looks like it's still up and running though. Crystal Clear ..Yes UH-HUH

I did the same tests as you Michael and found the DMX summing to be identical to DAWs. I did like the eq and dyn very much though and the board was a joy to work on.

[scott petito]

I still have mine sitting next to my icon and it gets used for extra mic and or line inputs ... all in all I preferred mixing on the DMX but the recall of everything protools in the icon is just too good

I consider selling the Sony now and again...I would expect to get in the 4K range with the installed Madi board


cheers
SP

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by scott petito

I still have mine sitting next to my icon and it gets used for extra mic and or line inputs ... all in all I preferred mixing on the DMX but the recall of everything protools in the icon is just too good

I consider selling the Sony now and again...I would expect to get in the 4K range with the installed Madi board


cheers
SP

Merging did a small run of new MADI cards for the DMX and as far as I know, they charge over $3,000 for the card alone, so the console including the MADI card for $4k would be an absolute steal.

[scott petito]

yes and mine is a fairly new MADI card I got from replaced by Sony for 1800.00 abut a year or so ago....

if anyone wants to "Steal it" Let me know I may let it go this time



cheers
SP

[TML Hautzy]

I would absolutely be interested in "stealing it" from you. We have about a month before we start building, so if you decide you are willing to let it go, please pm me.

[Killahurts]

How does one "steal" a workflow?

I'm where Scott is- I might let it go for a good offer.. OTOH, this desk has been so fantastic for so many years..

The damn thing still sounds awesome. I mean, ITB yeah yeah.. but the summing is still superb on this one and the automation smokes..

Keep in mind I gotta replace it if I sell it. Even though I use plug ins now, etc..

Well, if I took 4- 5k for it now (MADI, ADAT cards), where would I go? Some controllers, whatever?

The world of buying and selling gear is not for the faint of heart.

[drew]

He meant "steal" Scott's desk.

[Killahurts]

Yeah, I know. Just had a little too much 4th of July cheer before I wrote that, I was thinking out loud.

Actually, I still love the Sony. The only path up for me after that would be an analog console, which I don't have the budget for (yet). On the digital side I got plugs and controllers, but I find myself going with the DMX where possible just because of the SPEED at which I can get the job done. I'm thinking about going with some analog summing to get me going in the right direction though. SSL has some nice solutions..

I'm with Michael, it's a great board but I wouldn't consider making it the heart of a new studio at this point. If mine were to break in a way that I couldn't repair myself, I would not spend $$ to fix it, I would move on.

[Fabi]

I've worked quite a bit on one of those and I love the EQs and dynamics.
The Pres are also not bad. Definately a nice desk. Automation is not bad either.

If you mix ITB though I am not sure how much benefit you would have over buying the Oxford PlugIns and a decent monitor controller.

[scott petito]

you know the advantage over ITB is ... it feels really good...
in fact workflow when it was my main console was ... track on 1 side of the console and mix on the otherside much like a split format analog board...when I was done with overdubs use both sides of the console for mixdown... no plugins to instigate to eq an incoming track eq and compression alway available

the routing alone was worth it for headphone mixes/ submixes outboard parallel grouping (with some calculation for latency which once i had it figured out was done for good)

the AD are good the Da was the weakest link for me.. I used a Benchmark D/a to output my stereo mixes for analog processing mix buss etc.. and printing back to DAW tape or both... big improvement small price

my front end was a large selection of preamps and AD16x convertors
but i never hesitated to use the mic pres onboard and except for recording bass I never felt the A/d were lacking ( bass through my UA2192 just smokes everything else i have )

I clocked the whole system to a big ben and later the UA2192 which to me sounded even better than the apogee clock

the Eq is great and the dynamic more that usable

I ran a madi board 56 channels over a single fiber optic cable to 2 RME Madi interfaces both Lightpipe and AES to Digital performer and Logic as well as protools

why did I switch? 2 reasons I moved almost exclusively to protools HD
I considered an analog console the 2 best candidates at the time were the API 1608 and the SSL... both quite expensive and still lacking some or all automation functions I needed and there was and is still really no alternative to what the Sony can do for anywhere near even it's original list price around 20 grand....
and number 2.. quite frankly I got spooked by all the talk about Sony dropping support .. I started to thing about all my friend with Neves Harrisons scully's Lexicons an other gear no longer made and realized that although it was different for the DMX they could be repaired and there are are people out there doing it... When my madi board went down Sony only gave me the option of buying a new one .. but it turned out merging technologies could fix most of the boards at a fraction of the cost of a new one... I found that out after the fact...

over all I'm pretty sure this thing can work for a long time to come it's built like a tank

but at the time the Icon made the most sense at that point... total recall and complete automation is absolutely my #1 priority since i often am working on a dozen projects at once all on smaller budgets... and no other controller was or is as powerful if you take the time to learn it I don't regret the decision for a moment but I do miss some of the ergonomics and elegance of the Sony when I'm mixing.. it just felt more like an analog style of mixing despite being a digital desk

I now use the sony for extra inputs to protools for having things like guitar and bass rigs and analog synths plugged in and at the ready.. in order to do anything with the Icon other than playing back 2 track inputs you need to have protools open and running so this let's me play with sounds and route instrument and efx to also I can use the DMX to do some mastering and running DP and Logic tracks
all these thinks are worth more than the going rate on these boards to me...

So why even consider selling it now? it was long ago paid for many many times over

for one I'm doing a lot more mastering jobs and a dedicated console for mastering ..custom built is in my future... my commitment to PTHD is greater than ever...and I like the DMX so much I guess it would be nice to see someone using all it's features and I believe it still has a lot of useful life left in it.... I just don't see where the technology has advance so much since this was state of the art to render it completely obsolete

and quite frankly I know it's value will never get any greater (not that that matters much if you can't clear the cost of one of these in say a month of operation than you might want to rethink the studio biz completely...

well that was a mouthful

cheers
SP

[Killahurts]

Yep, great post Scott!

[Sharp11]

I had a DMXr100 from summer of 2001 till early 2005 - I sold it to someone overseas for 10 grand.

It was a terrific board and yes it "felt" great, but I'm a composer so I draw in my fades, filter sweeps and eq changes etc., so no need for flying faders - I also felt that by going with PT HD, which I did in 2003, I no longer needed two digital mixing systems, so I replaced the Sony with some API pres, an Apogee converter and an additional PT interface.

It's worked out great for me, completely ITB and complete recall of every mix.

I wouldn't recommend the DMX at this point simply because if it breaks, you can't get it fixed - it's a computer, more or less, and it's unsupported.

Ed

[s.d.finley]

Shameless plug! I have a DMX for sale!

I really enjoyed the EQs and dynamics on this console when I had it in service. Internal sidechaining is wonderful. EQs and dynamics on all 48 channel inputs, auxes and MTRs. 24 decent preamps and very usable AD conversion.

I had to replace the main pcb board, IF-735. That was over $1500. The Sony repair guys asked me where I was able to find it.
Appliance Parts, Electronics Parts, Computer Parts, TV Parts at PartStore.com

I also replaced both the main power supply and the smaller power regulator.
Two adat cards and an AES card, and and Argosy desk!!

Currently I am using a digidesign C/24 and Lynx Aurora 16. I enjoy the total control over PTHD. My work flow has improved tenfold. Writing automation is a breeze. I can also insert my analog gear while mixing, which I couldnt do before w/o the proper card for the sony. Although I was able to insert on the master bus, and MTR bus. I was almost considering using the DMX as a sidecar, for inputs and such, but I dont have the room and it would be a real waste since I wouldnt be using a 10th of the features.

The Sony DMX R100 is a good buy if you are not using PT and dont need to go higher than 48k. A DMX R100 in great condition, like mine!!, would last 10-15 years if well maintained. Mine lasted about 10 years before it needed a major overhaul.

Somebody PLEASE buy my DMX!!

[Jim Olen]

I also have this console, and have heard that they dropped support & parts, but haven't needed either. I am looking to sell mine if you're still in the market. The console is in great codition in my Chicago studio. You can check it out at Welcome to The Rhythm Cafe: Your Home Studio Away From Home (a picture of it rotates in the background). Anyway, let me know if you're interested.

Jim Olen
Rhythm Cafe
@rhythmcafe.com

[TML Hautzy]

jim,

pm me with more info please.

[Tube World]

I am curious why there has not as much discussion on the Yamaha Dm 2000. To me it's a big step up from the Sony. I spent some time at Sam Ash Pro (when it was around in NYC) were I compared the 2 for hours. Not only is there nicer scribble strips and work flow, buy 4 effects per channels, better converters, etc. Granted the stock Eq was not as good as the Sony, but once version 2 came out with the updated effects, improved work flow with Daw's I thought there would be more excitement on the forums. It's the same price as the SSL Matrix but it also offers 24 pre's, Eq, compressors on each channel plus effects. What am I not getting or not understanding about this product?