To Flea or not to Flea?

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

And what mic is that? Presumably not a Flea.

-R

Don't mean to hijack the thread but you asked. An Andreas Grosser U47 Big Badge. The only Flea Part on it is the Head Basket. Everything else was made in Berlin, Germany pretty much. The body is made of Brass just like the originals were made out of back in the early days of the big badge U47s. But everyone and their cloning brothers use Flea body parts in the past and currently. And some cloners will not tell you they are using Flea Parts when you ask. Why the hell not? Is my question? What is there to hide? The parts are used by everyone who makes a decent looking U47 clone. As far as I know, they were the only company that recreated the parts. But that is changing day by day. Like I said, this Flea Head Piece isn't that bad. It just bothers my analistic conscience. Even Andreas said it was a decent made head grill. But I can tell its not the same! If a more authentic head basket becomes available. I am replacing this one piece. Supposedly I will have my head basket done and made in the next 2-3 months in Germany. I asked Andreas to fix this matter. So Andreas is now using a new source who can replicate it 100%.

I know some of you my say wtf is up with this guy? If you like to know. Go to a local Audi or Mercedes dealer. As the best salesman on the floor there to tell you why an German made car is so much better in quality than any American made car. He should give you a nice presentation why that is so, ( if he or she feels you are a serious possible buyer of an Audi). If its a knowledgeable presentation. You should understand my point on the head basket. As a hint...it all about attention to finest detail.

[synthoid]

Originally Posted by DarkSky Media

One of the things that's useful about that clip, I think, is that you can hear the characteristic size, openness, detail and mid resolution of the U47 coming through in the recording, yet there's no doubt it sits well with the performer and voice. IOW all those characteristics that lead to the mic working well on male vox are part of the charm here also.

yeah, I was quite surprised to hear that special midrange presence that the U47 has coming off her voice. it sounded like the male version of the same effect just shifted up a half octave or so, very nice.

-synthoid

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Don't mean to hijack the thread but you asked.

Ah, you clearly set me up on this one.

Have you ever used a Flea?

-R

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Go to a local Audi or Mercedes dealer. As the best salesman on the floor there to tell you why an German made car is so much better in quality than any American made car. He should give you a nice presentation why that is so, ( if he or she feels you are a serious possible buyer of an Audi). If its a knowledgeable presentation.

Yeah, salesmen are full of shit all over the world. When it comes to quality and solidity of construction my '98 Ford Explorer eats my wife's beamers for breakfast.

-R

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Yeah, salesmen are full of shit all over the world. When it comes to quality and solidity of construction my '98 Ford Explorer eats my wife's beamers for breakfast.

-R

I don't know man. My thoughts on salesman are the same as yours. But go see a Audi or Mercedes on a show room floor. Once you are given the information. Man, you will be impressed. I was and I am a very hard guy to impress. You get what you pay for in this world. The older I get, the more I realize this to be true with most things in life.

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Ah, you clearly set me up on this one.

Have you ever used a Flea?

-R

A complete FLEA built mic, No. I was in the market to buy it several months back but decided to buy Andreas's mic instead.

[RoundBadge]

I haven't heard the Flea 47, yet but I seriously wanna get a real 49 next to Rick's when time allows.

The A Grosser 47's are fab microphones.
He's one of the true "go to" guys for all things Neumann.
As an original 47,Wunder [& now AG] owner,I highly recommend it.
+ 1 w/ Don regarding these Flea headbaskets..close but no "banana".. yet.
These aren't Peluso mics and for the money we're spending,they should nail it. according to Don's correspondence w/ AG it's going to happen.

[carloff]

I must notice one thing,
we had a Flea M49 in studio and was really nice sounding, then I bought real vintage M49(checked from Andreas) and compared to it --was different vibe a lot.Real M49 sounded somehow more colorful and wasnt so much bassy. My friend from studio who owns the Flea M49 decided to sent it to Andreas to make a mod and the Flea M49 will be able to make a pair with my vintage M49 soon...

[didier.brest]

Do you know what kind of mod is to be done ?
What cap has your M49 and what cap has your FLEA ?

[carloff]

I guess it is change of transformer....I can look what caps are in my M49 but cannot say what is in Flea because it is at Andreas office.But personally I think the mod is not only about cap.

[carloff]

BTW must notice.. there is at least 3 different types of M49, and couple of different capsules . We wanted to have Flea sounding as my M49 sn 226

[didier.brest]

Most M49s were produced with the mylar K49 cap. Only the ones delivered up to 1956 were fitted out with the PCV M7. FLEA is proposing three caps for the FLEA 49, the F7, a reproduction of the M7 with mylar instead of PVC, the F47/49, a reproduction of the Neumann K47/K49 and the Thiersch PVC M7.

[Plush]

Once again, there is a whole lot of misinformation on this thread.

A FLEA 47 is being sold new today for around $3900. This is not $5-8K as some have stated. If they actually talked to FLEA the posters who post $5-8K would know that this super quality mic is available for reasonable cost.
Did they really talk to FLEA? If so, why are they posting that the price is more than double what it really costs?

Also for detective posters and flies, you do not get to "qualify" the manufacturer by interrogating them about parts count or type. Neumann would refuse your request as would any manufacturer who wants to not swat flies away while they present a quality product to the customer. Posters such as you are not arbiters of taste or quality.

If you require an original Neumann u47 or AKG C12 or Neumann M49, go out and spend the money to obtain it. Here, I went out and spent the money to obtain Neumann M50 mics. I do not question what parts are used inside, I merely make recordings with these mics. The sound speaks for itself.

FLEA is making super quality mics of their own design. These microphones are offered to the engineering community at reasonable cost without the inflated pseudo pedigree of Ebay priced vintage "fetish objects."

Sadly today, one has to pay a lot of money for a genuine U47.
Go ahead and pay it you fussy posters. I know you won't.

The U47 cost $475 in NYC in the year it was introduced.

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by Plush

Once again, there is a whole lot of misinformation on this thread.

A FLEA 47 is being sold new today for around $3900. This is not $5-8K as some have stated. If they actually talked to FLEA the posters who post $5-8K would know that this super quality mic is available for reasonable cost.
Did they really talk to FLEA? If so, why are they posting that the price is more than double what it really costs?

Yes Plush I have spoken with Masi who deals for Flea on the side I guess, he owns a studio in Finland. He was pimping these mics on GS classifieds several months ago at a great price. May I point out again, I own a Flea Head grill. Today Andreas informed me that he did another test on the Flea Head. He said again, its a good working head acoustically and with sound. And also mentioned in some areas better than the original Neumann head basket. And that Neumann changed some things with the original head basket throughout its history, not every head basket from Neumann were the same. Something new I learned today.

If you go here.

Flea - 47

The list price is 3999 British pounds with Fleas major dealer in Europe..Funky junk. Yes you can get it a bit cheaper. But that is the list price according to the dealers of Flea. They say..call for a lower price song and dance routine. Plush, What country do you live in? Here in the USA thats slightly over $6K in dollars. Not counting shipping and import taxes ($3-500 dollars). And of course not everyone will choose the same options as you have. Sounds like you chose the standard flea route. You can order a Flea with a VF14 (1500 euros more) , or EF14, or EF12. You can get a thiersch M7 capsule or a Flea F7 skinned by Theirsch for a cheaper cost. Other options, Gold plating if you have gold teeth to go with it.


#2, I never said I would spend 5-8K on a Flea 47. I said mic manufacturer. That means in GENERAL. And that is what I would spend on a good U47 clone. Take it easy. And I agree with you 100% on the affordability of Flea mics to the recording community. That is very cool of them. I have ZERO complaints for their pricing. Its more than fair compare to their competitors. Like your all time favorite company T funk USA. I also had a conversation with the owner of Flea today. Milos. A very nice man. And he answered a lot of my question on Flea Mics one and one. It was nice to hear from the man in charge. He was very informative much more than the dealer I dealt with several months ago initially. He told me I could go straight to him if I ever had any more questions. That Flea are in the business to improve and grow in a positive light with their customers and he appreciated my comments on the basket. I like hearing that. I can tell he is a smart man. He doesn't fight with his critics, he learns from them. Also I learned that Andreas assisted them with that BV-08 on the Flea 47. I wonder why it sounds so good! LOL And they are close friends as well. Small microphone fetish world eh????? what did you say? Flies.. ? [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Plush

Also for detective posters and flies, you do not get to "qualify" the manufacturer by interrogating them about parts count or type. Neumann would refuse your request as would any manufacturer who wants to not swat flies away while they present a quality product to the customer. Posters such as you are not arbiters of taste or quality.

If you require an original Neumann u47 or AKG C12 or Neumann M49, go out and spend the money to obtain it. Here, I went out and spent the money to obtain Neumann M50 mics. I do not question what parts are used inside, I merely make recordings with these mics. The sound speaks for itself.

FLEA is making super quality mics of their own design. These microphones are offered to the engineering community at reasonable cost without the inflated pseudo pedigree of Ebay priced vintage "fetish objects."

Sadly today, one has to pay a lot of money for a genuine U47.
Go ahead and pay it you fussy posters. I know you won't.

The U47 cost $475 in NYC in the year it was introduced.

Yes I do require and would love an original. But just about every original I have seen for sale has been molested, dented, dumped in the toilet and repaired to look just like Frankenstein, especially here in the USA. I guess we put them to good use and dump them on Ebay. thumbsup Until I find a nice specimen worth being proud of. I am fine with any needed clone to fill that slot in the mic locker.. It takes time to find the right original. Your are talking about a 40-50 year old microphone. That endured smoke, pot, spit, alcohol, dropped, hit by a drum stick, or spun by Jim Morrison, whatever...and its hard to find a good one. At least for me it does take time and patience. And I also consider price and they are rare/limited. Especially a good specimen. The owners can't bare to let something go that is good and only increases in value. Big Badge U47 all original. 9 condition out of a 1-10 scale sells for $12-15k in the used market. Without the original PSU or cable. Just the mic itself thats in top shape. They are still sought after to this day.

And yes people are just different. You obviously stated. You don't look, you don't care what its made of. Long as you think it sounds good. That is fine. And with Neumann. You don't need to ask them. They are the kings of making mics. Everyone knows Neumann is top notch quality. But thats not me, I am not Plush. I research, learn and know exactly what I am buying before I buy it, down to the last nose hair if its important to know. And from doing that. My knowledge on gear has expanded so much, hell, maybe someday I will even have my own customized gear made and put out in the market for sale.. I like knowing what makes good gear sound good. I find it entertaining. And its educational, helps me be a smarter gear shopper/user and makes it easier for me to make music knowing what my tools are made of. Knowledge is power friend.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I haven't heard the Flea 47, yet but I seriously wanna get a real 49 next to Rick's when time allows.

Yes, I'm very curious about the 49. Let's make it happen.

-R

[carloff]

I have somewhere Neumann M49 versus Flea M49 files...
I will look for i in my computer

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by carloff

I have somewhere Neumann M49 versus Flea M49 files...
I will look for i in my computer

Oh yes!

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

The list price is 3999 British pounds with Fleas major dealer in Europe..Funky junk. Yes you can get it a bit cheaper. But that is the list price according to the dealers of Flea.

You can buy Flea mics directly from the manufacturer. 2,885 Euros is the asking price for the 47. Today that's $3,715. And I know if you talk to Ivan at Flea he will do everything possible to make a mic affordable to you. In fact I think they're having a sale now on a limited number of 47's.

FLEA microphones

-R

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by carloff

I have somewhere Neumann M49 versus Flea M49 files...
I will look for i in my computer

I for one would appreciate that.

Thanks in advance.

-R

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

And with Neumann. You don't need to ask them. They are the kings of making mics. Everyone knows Neumann is top notch quality.

Maybe not so much any more.

-R

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Maybe not so much any more.

-R

Yea I feel ya. But their attention to detail and quality hasn't changed. That remains the same in my experience with their current transformerless mics.

They just don't sound as good as the old classics with transformers IMHO and telefunken tubes that were once used. Nor do they make the M7 capsule anymore. Same company just different products on the most part..

I never had a problem with their quality new or old. Also... Very few mic manufacturers actually have and use a clean room to make and skin their capsules. For those who don't, the capsule collect dust under the gold membrane. That is one of reasons why Neumann capsules are better than the smaller competition. Then been doing it for 50 years or so. And got the proper equipment, techs and rooms to do it right. Neumann makes the same or better grade capsule as they did for the last 50 years in my book. Along with some other German Mic companies.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Nor do they make the M7 capsule anymore. .

Discontinued since 1956...

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Plush

The U47 cost $475 in NYC in the year it was introduced.

Sure, but that was in 1949.


1949 Quick Facts

What Things Cost in 1949:
Car: $1,650
Gasoline: 26 cents/gal
House: $14,500
Bread: 14 cents/loaf
Milk: 84 cents/gal
Postage Stamp: 3 cents
Stock Market: 200
Average Annual Salary: $3,600
Minimum Wage: 40 cents per hour

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Yea I feel ya. But their attention to detail and quality hasn't changed. That remains the same in my experience with their current transformerless mics.

They just don't sound as good as the old classics with transformers IMHO and telefunken tubes that were once used. Nor do they make the M7 capsule anymore. Same company just different products on the most part..

And you're the guy who complains that Flea doesn't make the 47 headbasket exactly correct?

-R

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

And you're the guy who complains that Flea doesn't make the 47 headbasket exactly correct?

-R

Yes, I am not 100% content with it and most importantly, I am not the only one.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Yes, I am not 100% content with it and most importantly, I am not the only one.

I'm just wondering why you would be on Flea's case for not imitating a Neumann part exactly, yet think it's fine that Neumann itself has changed everything about its own mics, and not for the better.

-R

[fragilo]

I just got word from Ivan who is building my mics as we speak.

He suggested that I get the m249 instead of the m49, due to the fact
that the Tuchel connector on the 249 provides better RF rejection.

Otherwise the mic sounds the same.

Think that's a good idea? seeing as my studio is right downtown Toronto, with
the CN tower blasting away its radio transmissions?

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I'm just wondering why you would be on Flea's case for not imitating a Neumann part exactly, yet think it's fine that Neumann itself has changed everything about its own mics, and not for the better.

-R

First of all. You are putting "words" in my mouth. I never said I was fine with Neumann changing everything about their own mics. I said their attention to detail and quality has not changed, along with some other points. Please don't put words in my mouth. Can you point out where I said all this? Go back and read my post again carefully.

And most importantly. I am not on Flea's case. If you know me at all on GS. I don't hesitate to give anyone here my honest user opinion. Some Dealers hate it, some learn from it (LIKE FLEA) with a positive light and like to hear comments from its users.. Potential buyers love to hear user opinions that are true more or less. Thats one of the reasons why you roam here right? I can't make everyone happy. I just lay it down how it is from my perspective. Obviously you not happy about something. Have you ever compared a Neumann Telefunken U47 head grill to a Flea U47 head grill? Or are you just an owner of a Flea 47 and you are justifying/defending your purchase? Its normal. Lots of guys have that tendency. They buy something. And they come here ready to go to war to defend it.
Happens all the time here.


The thread's title is "To Flea or not to Flea" Am I correct? As owner of their part (head basket of a U47). I believe I have the right to lay down my opinion based on that Title. If I didn't own anything from Flea. Then I wouldn't posting anything in relation to the thread. I feel the head basket could be done more exact. And again, I am not the only one who mentioned this on this forum. Are you going to debate to every person here who agrees the Head basket could be improved? The body is right along with the other parts. You might as well get it all right. Or you should we stop right there? I was raised if you are going to do something, Do it right, or don't do it at all. YMMM. Apparently, you are a happy customer. So why stress about the head basket bro? I just pointed it out. Laid my opinion on the thread..nothing more.

[DONNX]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

I pried the Flea badge off of mine and replaced it with "Newmann".

Fwiw, Flea is short for Flexible Audio.

But nonetheless, where are all the branding consultants when you need them (wait, that used to be me).

-R

Ahhh. You do own a Flea. I just backed pedaled on this thread. Now I understand your intentions.
Justifying the purchase. Its normal. I have been guilty for that myself in the past. But seriously compare the head grill to a real U47 grill when you get the opportunity. Thoroughly. I myself, really strive nowadays to be impartial. Why not leave the Flea badge on? You sound like you are happy customer. Wear that badge with pride man. A good eye can spot that you put a neumann badge on a clone. At least I could. Then what? Does your gear list say Neumann U47 or Flea 47? Thats if you have a website.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

Ahhh. You do own a Flea. Now I understand your thoughts for posting.
Justifying the purchase. Its normal. I have been guilty for that myself in the past. But seriously compare the head grill to a real U47 grill when you get the opportunity. I really strive nowadays to be impartial. Why not leave the Flea badge on? You sound like you are happy customer. Wear that badge with pride man. A good eye can spot that you put a neumann badge on a clone. At least I could. Then what? Does your gear list say Neumann U47 or Flea 47? Thats if you have a website.

Dude, I was kidding about prying off the Flea badge. The "Newmann" reference is a joke from another thread. Believe me, nobody in my world gives a shit about the badge or the head basket. If they get closer to the original at some point, fine. But hey, they don't use the same tube either. In the meantime the mic sounds great and holds its own against the vintage 47, the Tele 48 and the two different Wunder 47s that I compared it to (not to mention the Bock 151 and Gefel 92.1, admittedly different animals).

No need to be condescending with the "justify the purchase" crap. All my gear investments get justified by my quarterly royalty statements, and this mic is already paying its way

-R

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by DONNX

The thread's title is "To Flea or not to Flea" Am I correct? As owner of their part (head basket of a U47). I believe I have the right to lay down my opinion based on that Title.

So then, what do you say, "To Flea or not to Flea"? Are you recommending that someone not go with the Flea because the head basket is incorrect?

-R