best headphone to use for mixing , to substitute for non-high end monitors

[activexjava]

Hi All ..
my studio monitors are not that great .. I got Krk Rokit8 + matching Sub ..

buying that setup was my biggest mistakes ..

my ideal replacement is the K&H O300 .. which I am not ready yet to get ..

so to account for that gap .. I need something that can help me out while I get the real monitors ..

A sound engineer mentioned Senheiser HD 650 or 600 HD ... said that its the cheap alternative that I can use for now to mix on ...

not sure what you guys think ...

what would make a headphone fit for mixing?..
- flat response ??
- Open ?.. Closed ear ??
- or what ??

appreciate your opinions ..

Thanks
John

[muziksculp]

The sound engineer surely knows his stuff

You can't go wrong with either one of the 'Sennheiser' Headphones (600, or 650).

I love the way my Sennheiser 600 headphones sound, very accurate reproduction, great imaging, very comfortable on the ears, and do not fatigue your ears after a long mix session. I have been using them for around 5 years, and they still look brand new.

Hope this helps.

[emptyman]

I quickly adjusted to my Fostex T40's for tracking and mixing, but I'm sure you can adjust to any decent set of cans. Same goes for any decent set of monitors...

[riffmachine]

Originally Posted by muziksculp

The sound engineer surely knows his stuff

You can't go wrong with either one of the 'Sennheiser' Headphones (600, or 650).

I love the way my Sennheiser 600 headphones sound, very accurate reproduction, great imaging, very comfortable on the ears, and do not fatigue your ears after a long mix session. I have been using them for around 5 years, and they still look brand new.

Hope this helps.

Agreed, the HD600's are hard to beat. I love mine, and I feel like they give a really good representation of the mix. Great headphones. - paul

[julian.david]

I've recently bought the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro and I really like them. The Sennheisers are definitely great, but if you don't want to spend that much money, check out the Beyers. They also received a good rating in the last SOS headphone shootout a couple of issues back.

The problem I had when trying to find a good pair of headphone for mixing was that most stores don't have any of the high-end headphones in stock. The rule #1 is: Don't buy anything without listening to it first. Try to order a couple of candiadates and return those you don't like.

[cinealta]

The Grado RS1i may be suitable.

[bewareofdogs]

Originally Posted by muziksculp

You can't go wrong with either one of the 'Sennheiser' Headphones (600, or 650).

Agree.
And it is very easy to get the cable for balanced operation.
This way, you might consider using the Senn's with the balanced driver HPBA-2 from QES Labs.
To me this is the best monitoring system you can actually get through headphones.

I would like to try it with the HD-800 as well.

[buzzjoe]

[QUOTE=muziksculp;5397975]
I love the way my Sennheiser 600 headphones sound, very accurate reproduction, great imaging, very comfortable on the ears, and do not fatigue your ears after a long mix session.
/QUOTE]

+ 1 for the HD 600 exept for being comfortable. My head is big and the mecanical pressure caused by HD 600 was too extreme for me so I sold it to a friend. The HD 600 fits him better and he loves it...

I use a Beyer DT770 pro now which I find much more comfortable (but sadly not as accurate as the HD 600).

Oliver

[GuySonic]

The ONLY open type phones I've been able to do consistent mastering on are Sony MDR-F1, and newer and way better SA3000, and near top of the line, and most comfortable SA5000.

Photo is SA3000

[IMG]******//www.sonicstudios.com/sa3000_1.jpg[/IMG]

Being all day comfortable, and with fairly flat 10-100,000 cycle bandwidth helps make these phones equivalent to the highest end audiophile speakers. They don't even sound anything like phones, but like very high end speakers most of us will never afford.

My headphones page describes the evolution of these type of phones.

[detritusdave]

+1 for Sennheiser 600/650

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by activexjava

Hi All ..
my studio monitors are not that great .. I got Krk Rokit8 + matching Sub ..

buying that setup was my biggest mistakes ..

my ideal replacement is the K&H O300 .. which I am not ready yet to get ..

so to account for that gap .. I need something that can help me out while I get the real monitors ..

A sound engineer mentioned Senheiser HD 650 or 600 HD ... said that its the cheap alternative that I can use for now to mix on ...

not sure what you guys think ...

I think your problem fits the description of Low End Theory. Of course headphones are in use in high-end facilities for a variety of reasons, and threads like ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ne-system.html are very pertinent. It is even possible that headphones might be referenced from time to time during mixing for one reason or another, but they would never be used as a stop-gap because the facility could not afford a pair of nearfield monitors, let alone proper full-range monitoring.

You will get much more appropriate answers to your questions if you pose them in the correct forums. As the high-end guidelines state:

This forum is here to talk about high-end equipment and high-end discussions. Meaning we talk about everything that belongs in a high-end studio and everything surrounding that.

Please consider and respect these guidelines when posting.

[Robert Sands]

I have the Audio Technica ATH M50s. You need to try them out. Reasonably priced and sound great. Sometimes I forget that they're on me and I think I'm hearing my monitors. I have Dynaudio BM15 Passives with a Bryston 4BST and a sub. That's how nice these headphones are.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by muziksculp

The sound engineer surely knows his stuff

You can't go wrong with either one of the 'Sennheiser' Headphones (600, or 650).

I love the way my Sennheiser 600 headphones sound, very accurate reproduction, great imaging, very comfortable on the ears, and do not fatigue your ears after a long mix session. I have been using them for around 5 years, and they still look brand new.

Hope this helps.

Me three.

[Phil Cibley]

Don't forget to try out AKG 701s or if you can afford them,
a pair of Stax electrostatics.

[Knastratt]

Still mixing 80% off cans. Beyer DT770 Pro. Completed by getting 880s as well - for better midrange resolution. Still like the 770s better for overall sound and balance.

Cheers - Pär

[Shiny Beast]

I can consistently master on my K240's. Probably because I'm just so used to them after 20+ years. You sort of have to "fill in" the bass mentally from the overtones.

[dino321]

Originally Posted by Clueless

You will get much more appropriate answers to your questions if you pose them in the correct forums. As the high-end guidelines state:

This forum is here to talk about high-end equipment and high-end discussions. Meaning we talk about everything that belongs in a high-end studio and everything surrounding that.

Please consider and respect these guidelines when posting.

Perhaps he's considering high end headphones which cost far less than high end speakers. Are you implying that he shouldn't post here if his high end headphones are in a room with low end speakers? You wouldn't want to be seen talking to the rift-raft would you? I have to assume that his post was interesting to you since you spent your high end time on a reply.

[anabolique]

It depends... Some people say that they dont like extended low-end on Senns HD650 (in comparison to HD600)... still, they cost some 100eu more... There is AKG K701, crystal-clear sound, but lacks bass, not so good for mixing "powerful" music Great for listening classical though or something like that..there was a good deal at thomann store if youre in Europe, but again, headphone mixing problems with bass would be even more obvious.
Every bit of improvement doubles the cost... In my case, Little Dot MkV headphone amp doubled the cost (over my HD600). It certainly gives you more tight bass but its up to you is that difference great enough too pay double. Everything above price of HD650 is maybe.. too pricey IMO. And You need some crossfeed/speaker simulator... VRM in Focusrite PRO 24DSP or Redline Monitor or something similar or... SPL Phonitor-headphone amp and crossfeed simulator and pay 5 times the headphones... but that price doesnt include headphones

[Piedpiper]

Agreed about this belonging in Low End Theory, BTW

Also, there are a million threads here already that answer this. Use the search.

I've done a ton of research on this topic, having personally compared most of the contenders, owning most of them, and have concluded that the Denon AH-D line are the most accurate. The 1000 are their cheapest good ones, followed by the 2000, the 5000, and the 7000. The 7000 are my constant reference, but if you could afford them, you would have good monitors right now. The 2000 are remarkably good for the money with a textbook frequency response.

[Johantheman]

they are the best for the money you can pay
I've been using them for years now and they complement each other perfectly

Jo

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Johantheman

they are the best for the money you can pay
I've been using them for years now and they complement each other perfectly

Jo

I own them and do not like them..not for mixing. Dont like them much for listening, either.

I prefer my AKG 701s, and for some things my Stax Omega IIs

701s are great...the AT ATHM50 is great, too.

I find the senn hd800 to be horrible.

[tabiggs]

I've got a pair of 1st generation KRK Rokit 5's with the matching Rokit 10 sub (big mistake buying the sub) in a moderately treated room. I really appreciate my AT ATHM50's.

[activexjava]

Originally Posted by Clueless

I think your problem fits the description of Low End Theory. Of course headphones are in use in high-end facilities for a variety of reasons, and threads like ******//www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...ne-system.html are very pertinent. It is even possible that headphones might be referenced from time to time during mixing for one reason or another, but they would never be used as a stop-gap because the facility could not afford a pair of nearfield monitors, let alone proper full-range monitoring.

You will get much more appropriate answers to your questions if you pose them in the correct forums. As the high-end guidelines state:

This forum is here to talk about high-end equipment and high-end discussions. Meaning we talk about everything that belongs in a high-end studio and everything surrounding that.

Please consider and respect these guidelines when posting.

With all due respect I posted here because I was counting on the generous advice of people who are NOT " low end " , an advice that I can consider coming from someone who works in the production field..

I was looking for a High end *advice* .. I think you missed somehow the reason why would someone go to that forum .. people who have $100 mixer and a Creative-lab sound card won't likely be on the High End forum..

I asked an important question.. because I am trying to find a temporary solution to be able to produce better mixes than on the monitoring system that I currently have .. which is NOT translating well to the HiFi systems at all ... things sounds great on my KrKs .. which later on sound horrible on my Stereo Hifi System ..

I can't afford the K&H monitors yet .. but I was trying to compensate with headphones...

I thank all of you for your advice .. I really appreciate it ..

John

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by activexjava

With all due respect I posted here because I was counting on the generous advice of people who are NOT " low end " , an advice that I can consider coming from someone who works in the production field..

I was looking for a High end *advice* .. I think you missed somehow the reason why would someone go to that forum .. people who have $100 mixer and a Creative-lab sound card won't likely be on the High End forum..

i am sorry but i feel the above post is a bit arrogant to say the least. i get where clueless is coming from but consider this:

dave pensado has a pair of dre beats in his room at larrabee north for reference...simply because he knows that in today's market many end users/listeners listen to music on them...much in the same way that the whole ns 10 craze started.

dave russell (lady gaga/seal) carries a set of sennheiser 580's with him in case he is working in a room that is completely wacked out.

sennheiser 800's list for $1400...grado's and akg 702's are in the $700 range...benchmarch dac 1 or the spl phonitor are in the 1000 to $1500 range...so if price is the issue then modules that you buy for your 500 series racks should be considered low end as well

again i get clueless's point and agree that headphones should be used in addition to monitors but to say that this discussion belongs in the low end section and to scold someone for it is a bit much to me.

ej

[Teddy Ray]

I don't really get all the "high end" hall monitors either.


it is nothing more than elitism, a caste system.

that aside.. who cares really? In the face of all that is wrong with the world, why people want to fuss about "you arent high end enough".....

if there is to be any "social stratification" here... it should be based on experience, recording credits...time spent recording/years in.

there are a lot of know nothings with "high end" stuff.

[Piedpiper]

Not to push the point, but it's not about elitism, or the people. It's about the products in question, and keeping the forum useful. He's talking about upgrading from KRK Rockets. And ejsongs, the 702s are around $300, BTW. activexjava hasn't shared what his budget for headphones is yet. It would be helpful.

[MasterTrax]

Good gravy and biscuits, the guy's just asking a question about headphones. Be happy!... Just think, if he hadn't posted in the - ahem - "wrong forum" then who would you have to bitch at?fuuck

(And nobody better be forgetting the secret high-end handshake, either)

[tubeaudiofan]

Headphones are a fairly personal choice. I like Beyers, Grado's, and of course Stax, but as most have pointed out, if you can buy the Stax, get some real monitors first. Never been able to listen to Sony's for more than a few minutes...

For isolating phones, check out the Shure 840's... Had very good luck with them, and I have most of the headphones listed here. My clients really like them as well, everyone who hears them walks away saying "I'm going to order some of those." They are not very expensive...

Remember a good amp is essential for quality monitoring as well. The $1.89 IC in many pieces of gear is not very "High End"...and won't sound as good as will made amp, or a great tube amp [which are SWEET on phones], but these also cost $$$$. I feel your pain.

Stop beating on this guy about how he shouldn't be in the "high end forum". We all started out low end, and needed as much "high end" advice as we could get...and still do!

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by activexjava

I was looking for a High end *advice*

It looks like you are getting what you paid for: a bunch of people offering a bunch non-high-end experiences to answer a question whose very title admits it is not high-end. Whether this constitutes valid high-end advice is an open question.

The problem you report is that you cannot get your mixes to translate to a hi-fi system. Hi-fi systems are, as we all know, specifically tuned to flatter music, so it should be quite difficult to miss them as a target, but when room acoustics are sufficiently dreadful, neither the best engineer nor the best monitors can compensate. So perhaps you are right to seek refuge from your room.

However, when it comes to seeking advice, you should search where the solutions are to be found. I am sure there are people in the Low End Theory forum who not only use headphones for mixing, but can get those mixes to translate perfectly to boom-boxes, hi-fi, car stereo, and even iPods. That is the kind of valuable experience you need. Who the hell cares whether they have a $100 sound card or one that costs $120? That's not the point! The point is that there are folks who have learned how to make headphones work for mixing duties, day-in and day-out, and those are the folks you should be talking with.

Slagging them for the cost of their sound cards is merely elitist behavior, and should not be tolerated on this or any other forum.

[Dayo]

Realise we're talking about a pair of cans for mixing on here, but just wondered if any of the suggestions would double as a nice pair for tracking vocalists too?

I'm thinking of can spill problems. How to the Sennheisers fare in that respect?