Which new drumkit for 70's funk/soul/disco?

[sssoundsss]

Peeps. I'm a beginning drummer looking to get a kit for the above mentioned styles.....think dry, punchy, tight - Roy Ayers, Chic, EWF, Harvey Mason etc.

I thought about asking on the Pearl forum but, let's face it, that place is full of drummers!

What would be a good new kit to get? Budget isn't really an issue, though I'm wary of spending too much and ending up with a Dave Weckl sound .

Also I'm sure the guys on those funky-assed records back in the 70's weren't all playing on top-o-the range kits (or maybe they were? - you tell me)

I'd like to buy something new as I'm a bit scared of buying a lemon (being inexperienced and all).

Lastly, I'm looking for a good studio sounding kit (if that means anything to anyone!)

cheers!

[C/G]

I would think the quality of the kit would come second to the skills of the drummer. I can play on my kit or a piece of shit Maxwin that my friend has, and it still sounds like me. That being said, there are a lot of new drum companies making some cool stuff, more often than not they are all getting their shells from Joshua Tree Percussion or Keller ect. Each manufacturer will generally put their spin on things like cut their own bearing edges, choose or manufacture their own hardware ect. I own a custom maple Ayotte Kit that cost me almost $6000 CDN for just the 4 drums, no hardware. I bought a new Ludwig maple custom kit to gig with that cost me $1500 CDN for three drums, no snare and they sound very similar to my Ayottes. The Ayotte is a bit warmer sounding due to the wood hoops. My point being is that you don't have to shell out a shit load of cash to get a nice kit. There are a zillion companies and you will have to do a bit of research. Ludwig makes a nice kit at a nice price, but the fit and finish is definitely nicer on my Ayottes. Finish quality and type of wood will impart upon the price as well, same with shell construction. Do you want reinforcement hoops inside the shells? Do you want solid or ply construction ect. I was just turned onto Hard Bop Drums and their stuff is really well priced for hand made kits. www.hardbopdrums.com Check em out. There are some good Canadian companies like Ayotte or Epek which are made right in my home town. Check out the Ego hardware link off the Hard Bop site and there is a link to Epek. There are a lot of choices out there.

[PRobb]

One of the keys to that drum sound was damping. Whatever kit you get, for that 70s sound, make sure you invest in some paper towels and gaffers tape. Purdie used to tape his wallet to the snare! And he had a thick wallet.

And Ayotte drums rock I did a project with those (being played by a wonderful drummer) and the drum sounds took 20 minutes.

[C/G]

Yeah, got carried away. Forgot to mention the dampening thing and a lot of those guys were not running any bottom or resonant skins on the toms or front of kick either. A lot of the rooms were pretty dead too.

[cdog]

Get Bernard Purdie to play your tracks.

Use a dead, dry rooms, with damping on the skins.

421 on the snare

fet47 on the kick

[Nutmeg II.]

It definetly doesn't have to be a top line drum kit.
A nice Pearl, Yamaha, Tama, .... midrange kit will do.

Like mentioned before it's in the tuneing and often the lack of resonat heads.

Try a mesh (they look better than no head )head on the kiks resonat side and a big pillow.
Tune the kick relatively high. You will be able to tune in the low end with a eq and a sub harmonic synth... this will keep the kick compact with impact and a good amount of lowend thump.

With toms there is the no head/mesh head way and the Pinstripe way (Sonor drumsets did come with Pinstripe on resonant side for some time).
With a Pinstripe head on the resonat side of the tom you will have a very dry tom sound no matter what you put on the batter side.
Pinstripe on resonant tom side will also lower the tom tone quiet a bit so the tom will sound fat...

On snare you might want to try a 14x6" tuned very low on both the batter and reso side. Use a good patch of gava on the batter side or even throw a pice of cloth like a kitchen towle on top.

Last but not least record the drumset in a totaly dead room... It has to suck the life out of the cymbals...

[PRobb]

Yes to the kick tuned high, sometimes with one or two lugs lowered a bit.

And yes to dead rooms. Booths with carpet on the walls were popular. I'm not sure if it's required that the carpet smelled permanently of pot.

The kick mics were usually an RE-20 or a 421 with maybe a 47 out in front. Sometimes people built a tunnel in front of the kick with a chair, the mic stand and a moving blanket for the 47.

And the OHs were cymbal mics, not full kit mics. 451s were popular.

Drummers- when did the Evans hydraulics come out? Man, I hated those things. Unless Gadd was using them.

[Jamz]

I agree! for that sound the brand name doesn't matter.
Remove all bottom heads on the toms. Loosen top head/dampen to taste.
Remove front head on the bass and dampen with pillows, blankets, whatever to taste.
I seem to recall the Evans oil heads in the late 70's.

[u b k]

everyone has said all the right things, so i'll just add this: smaller drums. this is not the time to bust out the 26" kick.

and i agree fully, ayotte's are incredible and would serve this style well.

BUT, the obvious approach (to me) would be to buy drums of that vintage. old instruments come pre-loaded with mojo galore, and were an actual part of the history you seek to recreate. why fool around? you want 70's, so get 70's.


gregoire
del ubik

[Igotsoul4u]

You can do anything with a DW kit and a variety of drum heads. I love those drums.

[sssoundsss]

Thanks all, great replies!

like i said, i wanna buy new otherwise i might get ripped off!

I was thinking of Yamaha Absolute birch - would that do the trick?

[Jamz]

Again!...for that sound...IMO the name brand and make of the shells is not a real determining factor.
TSOP...Sigma Sound Studios (Philly)...1970's. That's the sound that comes to mind.
I remember walking into the studio's live room around 1979 or 1980, hitting the drums and thinking they sounded like crap. The heads were beat and the drums looked like tools being well used rather than pieces of polished furniture. However, in the control room they achieved the sound they were looking for. I recall telling the engineer they sounded like cardboard. Of course I was a cocky kid playing drums in a rock band at the time.
Five or six years later I was practically living in that room. Their drums were beat. I brought my Yamaha custom recording drums in. That "70's" sound was gone at that point.

[sssoundsss]

Jamz, thanks again

I just wanna make it clear, i don't want to ape that 70's sound - that's just a jumping off point for the sound i like

i appreciate that a lot of that sound was technique and studio tricks, but my thinking is: the closer you can get to that sound with just the kit, the better.

I'd also like something that could be used for other styles like 60's boogaloo, organ funk kinda stuff - so, a more acoustic sound - and maybe even some rock - so buying a beat-up shite sounding kit doesn't really appeal to me.

[Jamz]

Yikes! Never suggested you purchase a beat up set of drums. As mentioned I did bring in a set of polished furniture in the Yamaha CR drums. Just informing that the actual sound was less dependent on the drums as it was, not on trickery, but on blankets, duct tape etc. The 60's sound is a whole other thing. Maybe you should be looking Ludwigs or Gretsch?
There are many well made sets out there.
If I were shopping today I would give DW a serious look.
Good luck.

[sssoundsss]

Ok, i get you

BUT,

was the blankets/duck tape etc thing part of the sound of the kit, or part of the recording process? Did the kit have the sound in the room, or was it only after hitting tape, gates, or whatever - not sure if i'm making this clear.

New Gretsch stuff ok?

[Jamz]

The dampening and detuning needed to achieve that sound rendered the actual sound of the drum somewhat non existent. At least to the point where a manufacturers badge would have made a big difference in sound. Any drum of your liking could have been used.

Let's see, drums...wooden shell with 2 heads, tuned properly in order for the tone to resonate or "sing" when hit. Keep in mind there are some who tune drums to the key of the song that's being recorded. That requires tone. That 70's sound was the anti-tone.
We're being rather specific with this 70's sound but that sound required a single top head only, detuned heads and dampening to taste. Defeated the entire purpose of hearing the tone or resonance of the shell. You ended up recording a thud more than the tone of the shells "singing".

You want to buy drums that sound good and offer versatility. I really like the DWs. I still have 2 Yamaha kits and they are used in the studio frequently. I owned an oversized set of Gretsch in the late 70's. Always liked Gretsch. I'm not sure on the build quality today as I'm not shopping. My guess would be there are many excellent manufacturers and sets to choose from. Besides aesthetics and perceived quality of a manufacturers sound I feel the important points for me are:
- Roundness of the shell
- Lugs
- hardware
- Durability

Beyond that it's really a matter of the player and/or the guy tuning the drums.

[sssoundsss]

Thanks Jamz, great first hand info there! thumbsup

I'm going to just go to a big drum store, hit a few kits and buy the one i like the sound of.

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by sssoundsss

I'm going to just go to a big drum store, hit a few kits and buy the one i like the sound of.

Sounds (no pun intended) like a good idea.
Enjoy!

[C/G]

Originally Posted by sssoundsss

Thanks Jamz, great first hand info there! thumbsup

I'm going to just go to a big drum store, hit a few kits and buy the one i like the sound of.

Try stuff out for sure, but don't just buy the first set that catches your eye and sounds ok. A good friend of mine works in a music store and runs the "drum room" and I visit him quite a bit and usually when I am there I will sit at a kit and muck around for a bit. I have played some really shite kits that sound pretty good on the showroom floor, just because my friend has spent a week trying to tune them so they sound ok, but a showroom full of kits and people is not the best place to really have a listen. Maybe scope out a few kits that please you and report back here for a few opinions of your choices before you throw down your cash and commit. Worst case is you wait a day or so for some opinions.

[7 Hz]

Big drum stores are bad places to try drums, paradoxically. All the other drums, cymbals, cowbells( ) ect ring along with whatever you hit, making it really hard to hear what the thing your hitting really sounds like, especialy if you are going for a dry sound!

Anyway, as everyone has said, you want a small kick, tight and damped. The less drums you have the better, as you will get a tighter sound. So no 7 rack toms please. My trick for dampening heads is to gaffer coins to the heads, on the edge. You will be shocked how much difference one reasonably big coin makes to the tone.

[PRobb]

Another thing to mention is that a lot of the drummers at that time were not hard hitters.

[84K]

Brady makes great drums for this vibe.... I know a guy who has a full kit of theirs.. the Jarrah Block wood stuff is awesome... but VERY EXPENSIVE

[sssoundsss]

In case anyone's interested, in the end i got a Gretsch Maple Renown - for no particular reason other then i liked the paint job and i had to buy something

I've already started experimenting with tuning - took the bottom heads off and started gaffer taping paper towels to the top heads - instant 70's!

but i'll need to experiment lots more to get the sound i'm after.....plus learn to play of course!

thanks again and i'll be back to pick your illustrious brains some more soon enough!

[C/G]

thumbsup When in doubt always upgrade.

[FireMoon]

In a word................ Gretsch

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by sssoundsss

Peeps. I'm a beginning drummer looking to get a kit for the above mentioned styles.....think dry, punchy, tight - Roy Ayers, Chic, EWF, Harvey Mason etc.

I thought about asking on the Pearl forum but, let's face it, that place is full of drummers!

What would be a good new kit to get? Budget isn't really an issue, though I'm wary of spending too much and ending up with a Dave Weckl sound .

Also I'm sure the guys on those funky-assed records back in the 70's weren't all playing on top-o-the range kits (or maybe they were? - you tell me)

I'd like to buy something new as I'm a bit scared of buying a lemon (being inexperienced and all).

Lastly, I'm looking for a good studio sounding kit (if that means anything to anyone!)

cheers!

Try this out.

When you buy your kit - if you have that small tight funk kit - possibly with a (maybe metal) piccolo snare - mic it up in a really small dead room with one 451 pretty much front and center, and see if that don't make you smile

Nice tight, focused sound - learned that trick from Paul Taylor during a recording of Roberta Flack with Bernard Wright's band - including Dean Brown and Phil Hamilton (Luthor's band) and PUGI BELL. That was THE FUNKIEST SESSION EVER!!!!! I'll never recover from that session. I got totally funked up

Good luck.

That Gretch kit is lookin' REAL NICE!!!